Countering barbarians

[footslogger]

I'm only now playing my first game of BNW (Portugal, continents, standard, Prince). I was worried from all I'd been reading about more numerous and aggressive early-game barbarians but I have found that by opening the Honor tree early I am able to keep on top of the situation. The 33% combat bonus enables my units to get useful xp and promotions and the immediate knowledge of when a new camp appears is extremely useful. I can send out units to deal with it at once, giving good protection to land trade routes and getting influence with city states that want them destroyed. The culture points for destroying barbarians are useful too. It really seems to me like a no-brainer to open the Honor tree with all these benefits, even if I have no intention of going deeper into it and pursuing a dom victory. Do others agree?

 

[Bibor]

Hm, the "barbarian play" requires some more effort to become lucrative.
First you need more units, as you get the 2 promotions (the limit) rather quickly. Meaning you'll end up with 6-10 units if you want to squeeze out the maximum EXP you want from barbarians.
Then you need to patrol the camps and snipe the ones with quest/worker/settler. This is a very direct benefit of playing with a larger military from start, but it does require some micro, especially if you have AI competition.
As for the culture, yeah, its worth it if you are alone on the continent (or have a large chunk of land blocked off). Note that swordsmen and horsemen start spawning rather quickly, so your warriors and archers won't cut it anymore. That requires gold investments. Etc. You get the point. The Barbarian play is lucrative (especially for Songhai, Germany or Aztects), but is situational.

 

[Autoclave]

Depends on what goals you pursue. There are some maps that i can cover with vision pretty well, therefore I dont need to worry about new encampments. If my borders are conected with other civs, I can send my caravans to them without much of a trouble.

 

[MarshalN]

I play huge map marathon, and I find that barb hunting is very worthwhile - there are more barbs because of map size, and more time to kill them. I pretty much fund my settler with barb money, usually. The honor gain is significant - you can easily get 50-100 honor just from regular barb killing. Might not be worth it in terms of the cost (extra policy) but it does offset it somewhat, and helps you do your job faster.

So.... might not be for everyone, since you are giving up one policy of tradition or liberty for this, but it may be a good idea if you're going to go militaristic anyway

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would be interested to know, how many barbarians you would have to kill to effectively catch up with a straight tradition or liberty start.

Obviously in terms of pure culture numbers it is easy to calculate, but in terms of spending turns without the other bonuses it gets more complex.

 

[Bibor]

I would be interested to know, how many barbarians you would have to kill to effectively catch up with a straight tradition or liberty start.

Obviously in terms of pure culture numbers it is easy to calculate, but in terms of spending turns without the other bonuses it gets more complex.

If you go for Tradition opener and *then* Honor opener, you didn't lose out much. Honor *can* serve as a relatively steady influx of culture, especially when barb swordsmen start showing up.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If you go for Tradition opener and *then* Honor opener, you didn't lose out much. Honor *can* serve as a relatively steady influx of culture, especially when barb swordsmen start showing up.

Yes, i always find it very hard to pick something other than tradition opener first... it's so strong.

 

[Alzadar]

Hm, the "barbarian play" requires some more effort to become lucrative.
First you need more units, as you get the 2 promotions (the limit) rather quickly. Meaning you'll end up with 6-10 units if you want to squeeze out the maximum EXP you want from barbarians.
Then you need to patrol the camps and snipe the ones with quest/worker/settler. This is a very direct benefit of playing with a larger military from start, but it does require some micro, especially if you have AI competition.
As for the culture, yeah, its worth it if you are alone on the continent (or have a large chunk of land blocked off). Note that swordsmen and horsemen start spawning rather quickly, so your warriors and archers won't cut it anymore. That requires gold investments. Etc. You get the point. The Barbarian play is lucrative (especially for Songhai, Germany or Aztects), but is situational.

I've never seen Barbarian Horsemen in BNW, what kind of settings do you get that with?

I have heard that the Barbarians spawn a Horseman every time they plunder a Caravan.

 

[Bibor]

I've never seen Barbarian Horsemen in BNW, what kind of settings do you get that with?

I have heard that the Barbarians spawn a Horseman every time they plunder a Caravan.

I'm not exactly sure what makes them trigger, but I've seen most definitely Horsemen. Not sure if it was Raging barbarians (although I sometimes turn that on). Gonna check today if they spawn without "raging".

 

[Cannonballninja]

They do spawn without raging barbarians, I can confirm that at least. I don't know what triggers them though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've seen a horseman spawn beside a barbarian camp, no raging barbarians, and they didn't pillage any of my trade routes to make it happen.

Perhaps it requires nearby horses to the camp or something like that?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I've seen barb horsemen as the first unit in the camp on arctic islands without horses. There's no rhyme or reason to what kind of unit gets produced, as long as the technology has been unlocked by a civ.

I find the Honor opener to be especially useful for the Songhai, but I'm not warlike, so I don't pursue the rest of the tree. I just like hunting barbs for cash.

 

[3drawegroeg]

Perhaps it requires nearby horses to the camp or something like that?

I was going to say this. I've noticed a couple of camps located adjacent to horses that consistently produced horsemen. I couldn't say if horses are a factor or if it's just luck of the draw.

 

[Socratatus]

I tend to grab Honour too, especially since I always have `raging barbarians` on. Really skills up my troops.

However, BNW has been a bit of a shock since barbarians keep reappearing even into the Modern era (around 19\20th century). Before BNW they`d all be gone by the Medieval days.

I don`t understand it. barbarians should be almost nothing by this time.

 

[Callonia]

I tend to grab Honour too, especially since I always have `raging barbarians` on. Really skills up my troops.

However, BNW has been a bit of a shock since barbarians keep reappearing even into the Modern era (around 19\20th century). Before BNW they`d all be gone by the Medieval days.

I don`t understand it. barbarians should be almost nothing by this time.

Nah, if there's a single hex covered by fog of war, they can spawn there.

 

[Snuffleupagus]

I tend to grab Honour too, especially since I always have `raging barbarians` on. Really skills up my troops.

However, BNW has been a bit of a shock since barbarians keep reappearing even into the Modern era (around 19\20th century). Before BNW they`d all be gone by the Medieval days.

I don`t understand it. barbarians should be almost nothing by this time.

I like the reappearing barbarians. It goes nicely with the more peaceful game, as it provides some incentive/reward for have military.

I think of them as representing mini violent factions.

The last battle between U.S. military forces and native americans, as an example, took place in 1898. That's well into the industrial age. (sure, it was just a minor skirmish, but to me represents the type of thing the game is representing with late era barbarians).

 

[Tachii]

Generally, Tradition -> Honor -> That policy with +1happiness/+2culture garrison.

However, the tree is pretty lackluster still. In the short term it feels like you're racking up culture and barbs become a bit easier. Like said before though, unless you're Songhai/Germany/Aztecs or any other warmongers, going down Honor is not nearly as good as Tradition or Liberty.

 

[Infantry#14]

I play with raging barbs and I do use the Honor opening to farm the barb culture. It works pretty well on prince.

 

[NukeAJS]

If I get the opener in honor, I'm all in. I might, maybe, possibly get the opener for tradition first. After that, I always complete the entire honor tree usually with the skulls of one or two civs behind my throne.

The only times I'll get just the opener is if I'm Germany, Songhai, and sometimes Ottomans.