COVID-19 virus thread (formerly Wuhan coronavirus)

[innonimatu]

Pope urges priests to visit the sick
The pope has called on priests to visit people infected with the corona virus. Italy yesterday announced travel restrictions for the entire country to prevent the spread of the virus.
"Let us pray to the Lord, also for our priests," said the Pope in the morning mass. "May they have the courage to go out and bring the sick the power of God's word and the Eucharist, and to accompany health workers and volunteers in the work they do."

"May they have the courage to go out"

I hope they use adequate protection like nurses and doctors in the hospitals.

But doubting that very much:
why not have the courage to have enough priests infected first.... and deploy them after they are fully healed, and are no longer a (big) risk to be actually a source of spreading this virus.

You're not a catholic, are you? He's probably referring to visits to those dying, but it's not polite these days to talk of death. No need to worry about spread, the priests doing it know what they're getting into. It's kind of a big thing for catholics and one of the duties that come with the job for priests, as much as medics have the duty to care for the sick.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Nova Scotia is opening up COVID-19 "assessment centres."

 

[Socrates99]

Why do people doubt Trump's ability to handle this crisis? Are the Democrats being partisan when they claim he's treating the situation poorly?

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1237442130844495872



Some other choice quotes:

If it doesn't turn out a major problem his reassurances will look like he stayed cool under pressure. Doesn't matter if it's just because hes a science denying idiot.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If it doesn't turn out a major problem his reassurances will look like he stayed cool under pressure. Doesn't matter if it's just because hes a science denying idiot.

People already died. In the current environment trying to prevent that from blowing up into epic significance is nearly impossible. Without benefit of "they're just Puerto Ricans, not like real USians or anything" that's a tough hill to climb.

 

[Hrothbern]

You're not a catholic, are you? He's probably referring to visits to those dying, but it's not polite these days to talk of death. No need to worry about spread, the priests doing it know what they're getting into. It's kind of a big thing for catholics and one of the duties that come with the job for priests, as much as medics have the duty to care for the sick.

I did understand that when posting.
Although being "gereformeerd" protestant (a strict but not superstrict version), I have always (had) catholic friends. Starting with one streetfriend in my youth who had as uncle the first catholic priest here in NL who married (Jos Vrijburg). And I was always curious and hungry to talk about everything. And I liked his mother ! She made as housewife also Art and had adopted with her great heart an orphan kid (white) from South Africa, who was also my friend.
This evening I had BTW, besides other people, dinner with a former high ranking catholic. He is crumbling before my eyes with dementia, and our discussions on everything with catholic traditions and theology lessen in depth, every time I see him again.
Catholic traditions got lost in mainstrream with the Reformation who based themselves on only the Bible. And Islamic traditions, all the stories not in the Kuran, and not Sharia, but stories from Djinns to stories entering heaven. And quite a lot in common. And if you do not understand demon expelling... how can you understand the healing done by Jesus ?
Or the writing and translation of the Bible where sharp edges got removed. Sharp in the eyes of the Roman culture.

But still good you mention for this thread that aspect of the dying support up to the last rites !

And talking reality without gloves:
Priests visiting only dying people and using protection immediately thereafter would work very well because these priests will be infected fast and need only 2-3 weeks self-quarantaine to be able to visit dying people as fully healed persons not likely to be re-infected.
Would have been practical if the Pope et al would have thought this through earlier.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Interesting thing...

The company my gf works for has been exploring "work from home" options. Obviously, the manufacturing floors don't have any options, and that has caused some departments to lean towards "our people need to be here too" rather than supporting the idea at all. Other departments, like hers, have opted for a rotation plan where most of the department is on site on any given day, but there is some reduction of load on the facility because at least one person is out most days.

I think this has been a pretty typical approach to the reality that more people working from home means less traffic, reduced needs for expanding facilities...all the good but 'green' reasons that are mostly ignored. But all the nonsense is maybe going to be put aside so that quarantines don't drag things to the halt that we have been pretending that widespread work from home would. Once we are past this how will that play out? Are all these people who worked from home under quarantines expected to just forget that it did work?

 

[Hrothbern]

Interesting thing...

The company my gf works for has been exploring "work from home" options. Obviously, the manufacturing floors don't have any options, and that has caused some departments to lean towards "our people need to be here too" rather than supporting the idea at all. Other departments, like hers, have opted for a rotation plan where most of the department is on site on any given day, but there is some reduction of load on the facility because at least one person is out most days.

I think this has been a pretty typical approach to the reality that more people working from home means less traffic, reduced needs for expanding facilities...all the good but 'green' reasons that are mostly ignored. But all the nonsense is maybe going to be put aside so that quarantines don't drag things to the halt that we have been pretending that widespread work from home would. Once we are past this how will that play out? Are all these people who worked from home under quarantines expected to just forget that it did work?

Once we are past this how will that play out? Are all these people who worked from home under quarantines expected to just forget that it did work?


Good question.
I think it will have a lasting effect, but I think also that most of it will be massaged back directly after this virus. Not yet a landscape change.


From a documentary on the US I saw long time ago:

Before WW2 housewifes had magazines with elaborate recipes for cooking and were encouraged to spend time with kids
Then WW2 was there and many young male became soldier and manufacturing had to be ramped up to a high level
Then the magazins for these working women produced pictures of proud women on the job and were producing many recipes that you could make in no-time at all... still tasty and healthy ofc..and somehow the kids needed less attention.
Then WW2 ended and all the now emancipated women had to be guided back to the kitchen
The magazines changed again into elaborate recipes etc.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Moving on from the Starbucks worker, today we have a confirmed case...employed at a WalMart.That should present a contact circle that includes an entire city within about three levels.

 

[Zelig]

Are all these people who worked from home under quarantines expected to just forget that it did work?

Yes.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I tried unsuccessfully to start working from home. Most of what I do is administrative stuff that I can handle through phone calls and emails. I'm also supposed to supervise the guards, but I can access the cameras from my phone, so I could just monitor them that way. Despite explaining this to the powers that be, my requests to work from home due to the virus was denied.

If you observed something that called for correction would you be able to make that correction without being there? If so, was that made completely clear?

In answering that, consider that someone who is not confident that their own staff wouldn't just blow them off if they tried to direct by phone is not going to immediately accept that you are respected enough to get a better result.

 

[Socrates99]

People already died. In the current environment trying to prevent that from blowing up into epic significance is nearly impossible. Without benefit of "they're just Puerto Ricans, not like real USians or anything" that's a tough hill to climb.

28. I'm not trying to minimize those 28 but like the repugs keep pointing out its not even as dangerous as the flu yet. If it never reaches that point Trump comes out looking like he was needlessly attacked again. It just seems like a good time to keep your powder dry until you see how it plays out.

 

[innonimatu]

@Hrothbern I'm not religious myself, but I've also found myself having a have (somewhat grudging) respect for religious people, and enjoying conversations about religion and culture.

But still good you mention for this thread that aspect of the dying support up to the last rites !

And talking reality without gloves:
Priests visiting only dying people and using protection immediately thereafter would work very well because these priests will be infected fast and need only 2-3 weeks self-quarantaine to be able to visit dying people as fully healed persons not likely to be re-infected.
Would have been practical if the Pope et al would have thought this through earlier.

I think this kind of thing is important to many sick people, possibly for some as important, or more, than medical support. If they are dying and rest easier having that religious assistance, the priests willing to do it get my praise. They are taking a risk, but it cam be done without spreading I think. Curiously (have been wondering but still don't know why) Italy seems to have quite a lot of young priests, I won't be surprised if those are giving last rites even in the midst of this epidemic.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

28. I'm not trying to minimize those 28 but like the repugs keep pointing out its not even as dangerous as the flu yet. If it never reaches that point Trump comes out looking like he was needlessly attacked again. It just seems like a good time to keep your powder dry until you see how it plays out.

29.

I'm not a Republican, but I'm certainly someone who would be willing to shrug off 29 casualties as "not a big deal." And yet I know that is a very dangerous hill to try not to die on, politically.

 

[Arwon]

It feels like the reporting and criticism of trump's handling of the disease has been kind of hyperbolic and partisan here. I wish it wasn't politicized like it is. One side wants to pin a failure on the potus. The other side either minimizes it or has conspiracy theories about Bill Gates or George Soros creating the virus in a lab in an evil plot to hurt Trump....ugh our education system is apparently painfully bad if there are people believing that.

Is reporting the same in other countries? Its driving me nuts that disasters wind up constantly turning partisan.

Yes, the reporting here is also that Trump is badly messing up

For example here's the Sydney Morning Herald's North American correspondent:

As the markets plunged, US President Donald Trump again sought to minimise the seriousness of the coronavirus, blaming the "fake news" media for spreading panic and touting the consumer benefits of lower gas prices.

Comparing the prevalence of the virus to the common flu, Trump tweeted: "Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on.

And our ABC:

Everything Trump said appeared to be aimed at down-playing the seriousness of the situation at hand.

"It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for," he said.

"And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."

And when a journalist pointed out that COVID-19 has a fatality rate of around 2-3 per cent, while the flu is about 0.1 per cent, Trump disagreed.

"The flu is much higher than that," he said.

But the greatest contradiction and confusion came when Trump introduced Anne Schuchat, the principal deputy director of the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

"It's the perfect time for businesses, healthcare systems, universities and schools to look at their pandemic preparedness plans," Dr Schuchat said.

"Dust them off and make sure they're ready … we do expect more cases."

The words underlined the warning from her colleagues, who described the spread of COVID-19 within the United States as "inevitable" the previous day.

But after heaping praise on the experts flanking him, Trump made it clear he didn't agree with them on this.

"Nothing is inevitable," he stressed.

"There's a chance it could be worse. There's a chance it could get fairly, substantially worse, but nothing is inevitable."

It brought back memories of his very public disagreement with government meteorologists about the likely path of Hurricane Dorian, which became known as Sharpie-gate after someone doctored a predictive map with Trump's preferred felt-pen.

The Guardian:

Two days before Larry Kudlow was announced as a member of the White House taskforce on coronavirus, the director of the National Economic Council declared coronavirus “contained” in the US, despite a plethora of data that suggested it was not.

“I won’t say airtight, but it’s pretty close to airtight,” Kudlow told CNBC, swaddling himself in a comforting narrative that was probably destroyed in his first meeting with the taskforce.
Kudlow’s public statements on the level of threat to the US posed by the virus outbreak sit uneasily in the minds of health experts warning of its severity, but they probably rested far more peacefully in the White House, where the favored message seems to be: there is nothing to see here.

 

[NovaKart]

What did the priests do during the bubonic plague and smallpox?

In other news, the Wendy Williams Show will stop with having studio audiences for the time being because of health concerns.

 

[Arwon]

Australia hit 100 confirmed cases yesterday-ish, a prominent think tank here has the following to say:

Australia currently has 100 diagnosed cases of coronavirus, as of 10 March. Countries that have hit the 100 case threshold fall into two camps: those that saw rapid spread of the disease (China, Italy and Iran), and those with a managed case load (Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong). Australia would need to act as soon as possible to ensure we join the latter camp.

It took Italy around two weeks to go from having fewer than 100 diagnosed cases of coronavirus to having nearly 10,000 cases. The health system in the richest part of Italy is now struggling to cope with the load. The terrifying maths of exponential growth can see pandemics spread very, very fast. The rate at which the virus spread in Italy is not an outlier – it spread at a startlingly similar pace in Iran, South Korea, and China.

A range of other countries now look to be treading a similar path. Cases in the US are rising rapidly, even though there are reports that fewer people are being tested than may be warranted, suppressing the actual number of cases. In the UK, too, the number of confirmed cases is ten times higher than it was a week ago. Spain and Germany have followed a similar trajectory.

Not everywhere has experienced a week-on-week doubling of coronavirus cases. Singapore and Hong Kong, in particular, have gone down a different path, as did China and South Korea after their initial outbreaks. These countries have introduced widespread social distancing measures including the closure of schools, universities, childcare centres, public gatherings.

These aggressive efforts to prevent the spread of the virus have not been pretty – and they’ve come at a real economic cost to many households and businesses – but they appear to have been successful.

Australia had only 39 confirmed cases a week ago. The number of cases is more than doubling every week. Further spread in Australia is now inevitable, as health authorities acknowledge. Australia can slow or stop the spread of the virus now by adopting social distancing measures that will have a real economic cost. One alternative is to adopt social distancing measures later with an even higher economic cost. The other alternative is to let the virus run its course, which will probably have a very high human cost in shortened lives, particularly of the elderly, and carries the risk of significant social break-down.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Indonesia is quite hot, Jakarta was around 29 sometime more, where I stay is around 24. Something interesting happened lately. There was a client that went to the office few days ago I just got the information today after one of the manager report me. She taking master program in Japan and just went back to Indonesia. At the office she look super ill and in the middle of the conversation she vomited and terrified all the employee, they try to remain calm but after she went off they throw the glass the she's using (not necessary just wash it using strong chemical might be sufficient) and wipe the place where she vomited repetitively. I really wonder if that is a sign, and lately I also become very ill, huge coughing (wet one not dry), fever, headache, throat soar, but thanks God all passed just the cough left, I always get heavy coughing with huge inflammation at least 3-4 time in a year, I went with mask everywhere just in case to protect other people surround me.

I hope the hypothesis that Valka mentioned is true, and I hope this is the reason of why there are low number of patience in Indonesia (2 in Jakarta and one from Bandung) even though there are so many Chinese tourist coming to Indonesia, especially Bali this early 2020.

Everything is so mess up.

I want to stress that "the virus can't live in conditions over 28 or 29C" is only a hypothesis, which means it's a starting place for more research, not something that's been definitely proven. It could be a reason why the hotter countries (ie. those in Africa) are less affected so far, and why the colder countries are getting hammered (since it is still winter in the northern hemisphere).

Let's not all pack for the Sahara yet (particularly as some of us wouldn't be allowed to leave our respective countries anyway).

I'm also starting to feel the virus doesn't spread heavily in hot places. India had Corona virus from months now and it doesn't seem to have spread a lot , compared to what I see in Italy, south Korea etc. India is a third world country with healthcare and hygiene way below 1st world standards and a huge population. Same thing for African countries . I'm hopeful, world over things will improve in a month or 2 with temperature rising .

Yes, it's one of those things that mean I have to put aside my 'thank goodness for cold snaps this winter since they kill pine beetles' mindset and hope for anything that will mean I don't need to worry about catching this. I'm turning 57 in three months, which isn't old, but I have a couple of the chronic complex health conditions mentioned by the health authorities. I don't even dare catch the flu in a normal year (always get my shot and am definitely into hand washing and avoid shaking hands with people whenever possible), so this has me concerned.

It feels like the reporting and criticism of trump's handling of the disease has been kind of hyperbolic and partisan here. I wish it wasn't politicized like it is. One side wants to pin a failure on the potus. The other side either minimizes it or has conspiracy theories about Bill Gates or George Soros creating the virus in a lab in an evil plot to hurt Trump....ugh our education system is apparently painfully bad if there are people believing that.

Is reporting the same in other countries? Its driving me nuts that disasters wind up constantly turning partisan.

It's constantly partisan here in Canada. Between the lax handling of this situation by the federal government and the other issues going on here, voters might just be fed up enough to accept a new election being called if the opposition parties topple the government in a non-confidence vote.

In my province we've got a premier and cabinet hell-bent on "balancing the budget", no matter what, and they based the recent budget on the assumption that the price of oil would be a certain amount. It's now $20 less/barrel and that's going to motivate them to cut even more (they've already axed rural and small-town emergency rooms, want to get rid of RNs in favor of lesser-trained LPNs so they don't have to be paid as much, tore up the contract between the government and the doctors, and cut or eliminated so many other things that it would be a long list)... and the premier couldn't give a crap that people are sick. He only cares about the Almighty Oil.

It would be ironic if the coronavirus killed Trump.

They'd better hope Pence is next, then.

It's a shame Jason Kenney isn't older (yeah, I went there).

Went to grocery store a little while ago. The milk is running low there. (I didn't check on the storm chips though.)

I've been thinking about powdered milk, so there's no worry about it going bad. I'm set for everything now except basic perishables.

Are storm chips just regular potato chips, or something else?

It isn't disasters that turn partisan. What is partisan is politics. The GOP tells the same lie about their fiscal conservatism constantly, and that lie is so deeply grained that people believe it. It is well past time that lie gets challenged, and this is part of it.

GWBush: Look at that beautiful balanced budget! Yay Republicans.
Democrats: You defunded disaster relief in the budget. We all know that won't work.
<hurricane hits>
GWBush: We need a disaster relief funding bill to pay for this hurricane, and by the way we're gonna throw in all this stuff that we left out of the budget.
Democrats: WTF?
GOP: They are evil! Holding relief from poor suffering hurricane victims just because it is a red state!!!!
Democrats: <sigh>
<next year>
GWBush: Look at that beautiful balanced budget! Yay Republicans.
Democrats: Un-freakin' believable...you underfunded disaster relief even further!

Is there any doubt that the GOP is playing the same game with the CDC?

Like the doctors, nurses, and firefighters here (the provincial government made cuts to training and totally defunded one of the most effective teams for fighting forest fires).

Basically, if the NDP (party that got in back in 2015) did it or supported it, the current pack of idiots is determined to cut it or eliminate it. Just to say, "So there, nyahhh!".

The only problem with those assessments is if the coronavirus turns out to be a minor threat in the US the hyperbole reinforces Trump's position of "fake news, all a plot" take on the coverage. Teflon Don comes out smelling like roses.

I'm not sure I like banking on things going wrong to prove a point. Even if its really bad and we have a few thousand deaths its likely to get overshadowed and forgotten by the next scandal. How much do we still hear about Puerto Rico or the conditions of the immigrants in cages?

I guess I was curious to know if it dominates foreign news cycles like it is ours.

Yes, it's constant here in Canada. Things got to the point where I shut the news off, got off the news sites, off the forums, off social media, and spent most of yesterday and today playing Santa's Christmas Solitaire and cuddling the cat.

There's a magic and pizza party going on now in the building, though, so I'm going to wander down and snag a couple of slices.

Why do people doubt Trump's ability to handle this crisis? Are the Democrats being partisan when they claim he's treating the situation poorly?

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1237442130844495872



Some other choice quotes:

Trump will always be his own bestest, most bigliest hero.

You're not a catholic, are you? He's probably referring to visits to those dying, but it's not polite these days to talk of death. No need to worry about spread, the priests doing it know what they're getting into. It's kind of a big thing for catholics and one of the duties that come with the job for priests, as much as medics have the duty to care for the sick.

No matter the reason, they're still risking spreading it to uninfected people.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

As is so often the case I'm having trouble following a Trump plan solution.

"People who are sick need to just stay home from work."

"Okay, great, but people get just hourly wage and aren't going to get paid if they just stay home and they can't afford to do that."

"To ease that burden we are proposing, and this is being pushed with congressional leaders right now, a suspension of payroll taxes at least for the duration of this crisis."

So, I'm as much for suspension or outright removal of payroll taxes as the next guy. Massive application of payroll taxes as he rolled back income taxes was how Reagan slight of handed an increase in revenues while letting the wealthy stop paying tax, and I'm just not a fan.

But...if the standard wage slave stays home how does this suspended payroll tax help him? His payroll tax is already suspended because he's not getting paid.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I've been thinking about powdered milk, so there's no worry about it going bad. I'm set for everything now except basic perishables.

Are storm chips just regular potato chips, or something else?

It's a joke in the Maritimes. People buy up bags of chips before a storm. But Covered Bridge got in on the joke and you can buy actual storm chips now.

 

[Socrates99]

Its pretty amazing how tax cuts are essentially the answer to every woe.