Creationism - an example

[Eran of Arcadia]

So anyone can walk on water, as long as he does a silly walk?

I think you're taking the miracle out of the miracle here. Trying to reconcile the miracle with the mundane has always been a losing proposition. See, for instance, the walking on water thread in the History forum.

What I am saying is that anyone can walk on water if God gives them the power to do so. But no human on their own efforts can walk on deep liquid water wearing no footwear except their shoes. (All the disclaimers because there are other ways to walk on water.)

I see no problem with trying to explain miracles in terms such as I have used. Like I said, it is not by defying natural laws but by appealing to higher ones that God causes miracles.

 

[shortguy]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but what it sounded like was that miracles aren't contrary to the laws of nature, rather that they require such an intimate understanding of said laws that only God can perform/cause them. Kind of like an optical illusion, really.

 

[warpus]

No, you missed the point because you assume that humans know, or can know, all of the laws of nature. An airplane can fly because there are certain laws regarding lift and propulsion that "override" gravity, so to speak, but the law of gravity is never defied.

My point about miracles is that by the same token, there are laws regarding, say, walking on water that only God understands or can use, and that can only apply in a few situations, but they are not "breaking" any laws. Miracles, in my view, are not unscientific, just not explainable in scientific terms. And like I said, I don't view miracles as the breaking of physical laws but as divine intervention into human affairs, working within those laws.

So eventually we might learn enough about the universe to explain how Jesus walked on water - in scientific terms.

That means that we'll be able to duplicate the process, eventually.

If 5,000 years from now humans can walk on water, like Jesus did - would anyone still think that it's a miracle?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So eventually we might learn enough about the universe to explain how Jesus walked on water - in scientific terms.

That means that we'll be able to duplicate the process, eventually.

If 5,000 years from now humans can walk on water, like Jesus did - would anyone still think that it's a miracle?

No, what I am saying is that there are certain laws and principles that humnas cannot by our own efforts ever understand, that only God can, and that it is only by His power that miracles can be performed. I don't doubt that 5000 years from now we will have a way to walk on water with antigravity technology or something, but that is not the same thing that Jesus used.

It may be hard to understand, but think of an analogy, that maybe we can only think of 3 spatial dimensions but God can use 6 or 7. Any physical laws involving the others are beyond our ability to understand, let alone use.