Crime Revisited

So, no worthwhile reason to have a diffusing property in every city BFC that only affects a few events.
 
So, no worthwhile reason to have a diffusing property in every city BFC that only affects a few events.

Flammability is a static property and doesn't have all the functioning of a dynamic property... like diffusing for example. It's tracked directly as the sum total of fixed +'s and -'s assigned by buildings built in the city. That simple. Actually, I've been finding the severity you need to reach to start suffering the flammability events to be quite appropriate lately. Good Job Hydro!

I've suggested it be a dynamic property and that we have fire-fighter units. I would like this a lot but I understand the reasons others have objected.
 
(Does flammability even have an effect? Otherwise, it's just dragging down performance for no reason.)

I have ignored it now for over a year or so. It appears to have no significant effect on the gameplay. In that time I think I have had one fire event.

Either the fire risk should be improved (think London or Rome) or it should be removed.
 
Added Eras and moved 4* to more appropriate Prereq Tech. ** This one is up for elimination.

New Min Crime to come later. None as stated before will be above 700. EDIT: Revising to 1000

I will be using Rwn's Table to expound upon as I gather more details.

Era|Prereq tech|Min Crime|Crime|:health:|:)|:gold:|%:hammers:|%:commerce:|%:gold:|%:science:|%:culture:|%:espionage:
Preh||515|Crime (Kidnapping)||-3|||||||
Preh||525|Crime (Rape)|-2|-3|||||||
Preh||700|Crime (Murder)|-6|-3|||||||
Preh|Scavenging|275|Crime (Mugging)|-3|-2|-10||||||
Preh|Shelter Building|325|Crime (Burglary)||-2|-5||||||
Preh|Cultural Identity|1350|Crime (Sectarian Violence)|-40|-20|||||||
Preh|Personal Adornment|35|Crime (Pickpocketing)||-1|-1||||||
Preh|Barter|160|Crime (Shoplifting)||-1|-2||||||
Preh|Barter|475|Crime (Bribery)||-2|||||||-20
Preh|Warfare|300|Crime (Fighting)|-3|-2|||||||
Preh|Warfare|500|Crime (Gangs)|-5|-3|-10||||||
Preh|Warfare|920|Crime (Looting)||-3|-50|-20|||||
Preh|Fire Making|250|Crime (Arson)|-2|-2|||||||
Preh|Chiefdom|1070|Crime (Power Struggles)|-2|-4|||||||
Preh|Conduct|725|Crime (Corruption)||-3|-20||||||-30
Ancient|Trade|1|Crime (Soliciting)||-2|||||||
Ancient|Fermentation|30|Crime (Public Intoxication)||-1|||||||
Ancient|Trade|425|Crime (Black Markets)|-4|-2||-10|-20||||
Ancient|Oratory|25|Crime (False Accusations)||-1|||||||
Ancient|Writing|75|Crime (Forgery)||-1|-5||||||
Classical|Currency|70|Crime (Blackmail)||-1|||||||
Classical|Currency|100|Crime (Counterfeiting)||-1|-15||||||
Classical|Currency|140|Crime (Extortion)||-2|||||||
Classical|Currency|1320|Crime (Rogue Mercenaries)**||-4|||||||
Classical|Alphabet|175|Crime (Illegal Immigration)||-2||||||-10|
Classical|Military Training|460|Crime (Military Desertion)||-2|||||||
Classical|Code of Laws|500|Crime (Vigilantism)||1|-5||||||-20
Classical|Code of Laws|1050|Crime (Rioting)*|-20|-8|-50|-30|-30||||
Classical|Drug Trade|450|Crime (Drugs)|-5|-2|-30||||||
Classical|Drug Trade|1180|Crime (Drug Cartels)|-30|-12|||||||
Classical|Sanitation|10|Crime (Littering)|-1|-1|-1||||||
Classical|Aesthetics|20|Crime (Graffiti)||-1|||||||
Classical|Insurance|120|Crime (Insurance Fraud)||-1|-10||||||
Medieval|Papacy|42|Crime (Flashing)||-1|||||||
Medieval|Usury|90|Crime (Embezzlement)||-1|-10||||||
Medieval|Usury|180|Crime (Tax Evasion)||-1|-20||||||
Medieval|Surveying|75|Crime (Tresspassing)||-1|||||||
Medieval|Banking|350|Crime (Bank Robbery)|-2|-1|-25||||||
Ren|Matchlock|620|Crime (Armed Communities)|-3|-1|||||||
Ren|Corporation|300|Crime (Money Laundering)||-2|-25||||||
Ren|Corporation|530|Crime (Corporate Manslaughter)|-6|-2|-15||||||
Ren|Stock Brokering|220|Crime (Insider Trading)||-2|||-10||||
Ren|Stock Brokering|550|Crime (Stock Market Rigging)||-2|-50||||||
Ren|Constitution|900|Crime (Prison Breakouts)||-3|||||||
Ren|Emancipation|1000|Crime (Human Trafficking)|-4|-6|||||||
Ren|Military Tradition|450|Crime (Insubordination)||-2|||||||
Industrial|Wildlife Conservation|600|Crime (Poaching)|-2|-2|||||||
Industrial|Modern Sanitation|10|Crime (Toilet Papering)||-1|||||||
Industrial|Labor Union|60|Crime (Welfare Fraud)||-1|-5||||||
Industrial|Labor Union|310|Crime (Racketeering)||-2|||-5||||
Industrial|Labor Union|520|Crime (Child Labor)|-1|-2|||||-15|-15|
Industrial|Semi-Automatic Weapons|840|Crime (Gun Rampage)|-3|-6|||||||
Industrial|Women's Suffrage|50|Crime (Sexual Harassment)||-1|||||||
Industrial|Women's Suffrage|240|Crime (Domestic Violence)|-1|-2|||||||
Industrial|Motorized Transportation|50|Crime (Drunk Driving)|-1|-1|-5||||||
Industrial|Motorized Transportation|130|Crime (Car Chase)|-1|-1|-5||||||
Industrial|Motorized Transportation|400|Crime (Car Theft)||-2|-15||||||
Industrial|Motorized Transportation|1125|Crime (Car Bombing)|-3|-4|-5||||||
Industrial|Compulsory Education|55|Crime (Truancy)||-1|||||-5||
Industrial|Flight|1300|Crime (Aircraft Hijacking)|-4|-8|-10||||||
Industrial|Automatic Weapons|650|Crime (Weapons Trafficking)|-6|-1|||||||
Industrial|Automatic Weapons|950|Crime (Organized Crime)|-8|-6|-10||||||-20
Industrial|Applied Economics|410|Crime (Ponzi Schemes)||-2|-30||-10||||
Modern|Modern Health Care|190|Crime (Elder Abuse)|-3|-1|||||||
Modern|Modern Health Care|560|Crime (Medical Fraud)|-6|-2|-10||||||
Modern|Modern Health Care|580|Crime (Organ Trafficking)|-6|-1|||||||
Modern|Personal Computers|150|Crime (Hacking)||-1||||-5||-5|-5
Modern|Personal Computers|340|Crime (Identity Theft)*||-1|-15||||||
Modern|Personal Computers|10|Crime (Cyberbullying)*||-1|||||||
Modern|Minority Rights|250|Crime (Hate Crime)|-2|-2||||||-10|
Modern|Ecology|200|Crime (Animal Abuse)||-1|||||||
Modern|Ecology|600|Crime (Environmental Dumping)|-8|-3|||||||
Modern|Modern Sports|350|Crime (Sports Riots)|-4|-2|-10||||||
Modern|Fiber Optics|15|Crime (Online Piracy)||1|-2||||||
Modern|Fiber Optics|100|Crime (Internet Fraud)||-1|-10||||||
Modern|Genetics|380|Crime (Gene Forgery)||-2|-15||||||
Modern|Urban Culture|780|Crime (School Shootings)|-3|-4|||||||
Modern|Urban Culture|1100|Crime (Gang Warfare)*|-12|-4|||||||
Modern|Cloud Computing|15|Crime (Malware)||-1|-10||||-5||-20
Modern|Cloning|870|Crime (Unlicensed Cloning)|-2|-4|||||-10||
TH|Cyberwarfare|820|Crime (Cyberwarfare)||-2|-40||||-20||-100
TH|Personal Robots|750|Crime (Asimov Tampering)|-1|-2|||||||
TH|Mind Uploading|1280|Crime (Illegal Brainwashing)|-2|-6|||||||-200
Galactic|Time Travel|1500|Crime (Timeline Tampering)||-20||||-50|-50|-50|-50

JosEPh
 
what do you think about a option to remove the effect of some crime by crime fighting buildings like Crime (Vigilantism) being replaced when you build a courthouse?
 
Some of those names are really too long - False Accusations could easily be Slander, for instance.

I'd ditch Rogue Mercenaries and I'm wondering why we need both Looting and Rioting or both Drugs and Drugs Cartels. I think it'd be sensible for some of them to replace the others, such as Rioting superseding Looting when the Crime level increases.
 
what do you think about a option to remove the effect of some crime by crime fighting buildings like Crime (Vigilantism) being replaced when you build a courthouse?

While that can be done, this particular example doesn't make sense to me. Daredevil would probably disagree with it as well, being a vigilante lawyer.

However, some crimes would really be removed by the total mental and social control over society projected to be possible in the transhuman era.
 
Preh Era Crime ordered by current Min Crime levels.

Era|Prereq tech|Min Crime|Crime|:health:|:)|:gold:|%:hammers:|%:commerce:|%:gold:|%:science:|%:culture:|%:espionage:
Preh|Personal Adornment|35|Crime (Pickpocketing)||-1|-1||||||
Preh|Barter|160|Crime (Shoplifting)||-1|-2||||||
Preh|Fire Making|250|Crime (Arson)|-2|-2|||||||
Preh|Scavenging|275|Crime (Mugging)|-3|-2|-10||||||
Preh|Warfare|300|Crime (Fighting)|-3|-2|||||||
Preh|Shelter Building|325|Crime (Burglary)||-2|-5||||||
Preh|Barter|475|Crime (Bribery)||-2|||||||-20
Preh|Warfare|500|Crime (Gangs)|-5|-3|-10||||||
Preh||515|Crime (Kidnapping)||-3|||||||
Preh||525|Crime (Rape)|-2|-3|||||||
Preh||700|Crime (Murder)|-6|-3|||||||
Preh|Conduct|725|Crime (Corruption)||-3|-20||||||-30
Preh|Warfare|920|Crime (Looting)||-3|-50|-20|||||
Preh|Chiefdom|1070|Crime (Power Struggles)|-2|-4|||||||
Preh|Cultural Identity|1350|Crime (Sectarian Violence)|-40|-20|||||||

Now I'm looking for Suggested New Min Crime levels. The last 5 all exceed the levels I want as Max. But the ranking of the 1st 10 are also off in some lower level Crime has a Higher min crime than more serious crime.

Also looking for a consensus of Crime seriousness. Is Mugging actually worse than Arson as it is listed now? Is Corruption worse than Murder? Does Power Struggles even exist as a crime? How and what level do you rank Sectarian (Ethnic) Violence?

JosEPh
 
I think Ethnic Violence should be pretty severe (and it's shorter than Sectarian), but mugging and corruption shouldn't be worse than arson or murder, no. Power Struggles shouldn't be a crime, I agree.
 
Also Fighting in Preh era or Ancient, Classical or even Med Era was not a crime. It was a way of life and you sharpened your fighting skills not get arrrested because you used them.

Fighting as a crime needs moved to at least Ind Era, if not Modern Under Urban Culture, or removed completely.

Im' pretty sure If I change a name that I would have to change the associated schema file, and maybe something in the Tech tree files? But Yes many Crime Names are too long and could be shortened.

So far you and I are on the same page. Now I wait to see how others think.

JosEPh :)
 
I think you'd only need to change the appropriate text files for all the various TXT_KEYs, e.g. TXT_KEY_PROPERTY_CRIME. Crime (Murder) could become (C) Murder instead.
 
The crime levels I suggest here is only a guide, mostly meant to show what I think is the severity level of crimes relative to each other.

Thieving: pickpocketing+shoplifting
Corruption replaces Bribery

No requirement - 25 - Thieving - [0, -1, 0, 0, 0, -1]
Personal adornment - 50 - Mugging - [-1, -1, 0, 0, 0, -2]
No requirement - 75 - Fighting - [-3, -2(with conduct), 0, -2]
No requirement - 75 - Rape - [-2, -3(with conduct)]
Barter - 75 - Bribery - [0, -2, 10, 0, -2, -1]
Sedentary Lifestyle - 100 - Burglary - [0, -2, -1, 0, 0, -3]
Warfare - 150 - Gangs - [-4,-2,-8]
Code of Law - 150 - Corruption - [0, -3, 20, 0, -8, -4]
Fire Making - 200 - Arson [-2, -2, -10]

Murder is mostly a biproduct of the other crimes, like fighting/gangs, but it could be renamed to assassinations.

I didn't go through the whole list because this is not an easy task. Hope that what I did go through helps you in some way, Good luck.
 
Instead of thieving, Theft would be even better. Power Struggles is basically just a form of murder and/or corruption.
 
Next Era Ancient by min Crime level.

Era|Prereq Tech|Min Crime|Crime|:health:|:)|:gold:|%:hammers:|%:commerce:|%:gold:|%:science:|%:culture:|%:espionage:|
Ancient|Trade|1|Crime (Soliciting)||-2|||||||
Ancient|Oratory|25|Crime (False Accusations)||-1|||||||
Ancient|Fermentation|30|Crime (Public Intoxication)||-1|||||||
Ancient|Writing|75|Crime (Forgery)||-1|-5||||||
Ancient|Trade|425|Crime (Black Markets)|-4|-2||-10|-20||||

Smallest set except for Galactic. This set most players will experience the 1st 4. But the cost is low. Still I can see some revisions made here.

JosEPh
 
Slander and Drunkenness would make for two better/shorter names. The black markets look pretty crippling!
 
Was being drunk in public a crime back than? I'm not 100% sure but I think in Germany public drinking is allowed. As long as you cause no harm or harass someone at least. I never had problems with that and I don't know anybody else who did. And that may be true for other countries as well. I would move it at least far down the tree, to maybe Renaissance at least?

With Rape having such a low crime treshold now, I think it could use a tech req. In the beginning of the game you are basically an animal. I think Rape or Murder were pretty normal back then.
 
In the beginning of the game you are basically an animal. I think Rape or Murder were pretty normal back then.
That is also an argument for no tech requirement as these things probably had the same negative effects before they became illegal.

Imo, crime should be renamed to "Order" or "Disorder" as to remove its relation with law.
 
Just a random thought about that:

When murder was commonplace, did it have such a strong psychological effect on a witness? I mean, if you see it all day, you get kinda used to it. If I'd see someone get beaten to death with a club I'd be stunned since I never saw it IRL. Same with rape. But on the other hand groups were much smaller and you knew everybody you see and you mostly knew the victim personally. When you outlaw it, it becomes rarer, you feel more secure, but if it happens then, it has a stronger impact because of this.

That's maybe just one of the topics that I think about and then realize that it is on a level that civ can't emulate and then I delete the text again - normally :crazyeye:
 
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