Crossroads of the World Collection - Part 1 - Details announced

[queenpea]

I didn't expect grand scale changes from quick patch, but pace updates are clearly welcome.

Also, I don't know how artifacts from natural wonders work - if they are mentioned separately, probably they don't follow regular process and you could actually dig them after other players dug it? If that's the case, then together with artifacts from future civics it follows the idea of having less artifacts in race and more artifacts available from other sources.

Importantly: I said "hope" and not "expect." I reserve the right to be disappointed by the culture game in VII. I am of the opinion that some major changes need to be made.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Have to comment on this, because it speaks to the inconsistency of the Civ VII design:

Revenge.
As a naval item for Britain, it has serious problems. On the one hand, it is one of the most famous ship names in the Royal Navy: The original race-built galleon with the name was Drake's flagship in the battle against the Spanish Armada and was captured by the Spanish several years later in 1591 after a ferocious fight against an entire Spanish fleet in the Caribbean - presumably where the 'splash' bonus comes from. Trouble is, that fight took place firmly in the Exploration Age by a Galleon, and so has or should have, no bearing on a Modern Age Civ.

In the Modern Age, HMS Revenge was the name ship of a class of superdreadnaughts built in 1915 - 1916, but, frankly, they were nothing special - actually slower than the previous Queen Elizabeth class, and generally considered 2nd class capital ships by the 1940s, unlike the modernized Queen Elizabeths.

Frankly, a really bad choice.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Agreed.

But looking at the short, it does help a bit. Changing the cost of the first explorer from 400 to 1330 is a massive change! No more saving up and buying 4 explorers the turn you hit natural history. And that money will be missing for buying railroads and factories as well (if you go multi path). Less artifacts might also mean that if 3-4 civs are really competing (and they will with less explorers) you need to rely more on overbuilding (= luck), city states or really need to finish the culture tree. This doesn't look too bad for a quick fix.

Yeah, it's a good start. Extra artifacts with future Civics remove the possibility of getting stuck too, and using Natural Wonders for research can unlock continents which would otherwise remain blocked. Those are positive changes.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Importantly: I said "hope" and not "expect." I reserve the right to be disappointed by the culture game in VII. I am of the opinion that some major changes need to be made.

I agree, but I see it as an iterative step in the right direction.

 

[moysturfurmer]

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

We'll see, but with the addition of GB, the first civ designed specifically to chase down a cultural victory through a unique Explorer, it still sounds easy to me.

Honestly, as a cultural player from all other version of Civilization, I still am really disappointed by how it's handled in every Age except Antiquity. It's frankly terrible in VII.

Having fun with VII otherwise, but I reserve the right to remain extremely salty on all things Culture in VII.

Right on brother, it's the weakest part.

That said, the suggested changes sound like a good enough way to fix archaeology. The whole idea of archaeology is fun, it's just strange as the only way to win a cultural victory, we need more layers added to culture in general. I'm sure it's coming, I can't believe they intend to leave it as religion and archaeology for the whole of the game's cycle.

 

[Leucarum]

Agreed that the culture changes just seem like a band-aid. I'd rather a band aid than an open wound though so it's a win.

Honestly, I just want them to add the option to turn off victory projects. Score is the most interesting victory condition in my opinion, and I don't see how the modern age civs ever get to shine if their time in the spot light gets cut short by their era ending early...

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Agreed that the culture changes just seem like a band-aid. I'd rather a band aid than an open wound though so it's a win.

Honestly, I just want them to add the option to turn off victory projects. Score is the most interesting victory condition in my opinion, and I don't see how the modern age civs ever get to shine if their time in the spot light gets cut short by their era ending early...

Another option I'd like to see is for it to be more than one Legacy Path by victory type. Kinda like how crises can vary. But that's probably major DLC fodder.

 

[queenpea]

I agree, but I see it as an iterative step in the right direction.

I don't disagree that it's a positive step, but I don't think it's "enough."

It doesn't change the fact that the cultural victory has actually very little (almost nothing) to do with culture. The optimal strategy for Explorers is:

1) Acquire territory through war in Antiquity and Exploration.
2) Have an extremely strong economy with high gold per turn.
3) Use high GPT to purchase explorers in the nearest settlement where they spawn.
4) Use strong economy to quickly build/buy museums and slot in artifacts.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Another option I'd like to see is for it to be more than one Legacy Path by victory type. Kinda like how crises can vary. But that's probably major DLC fodder.

I think i remember them saying they would add more legacy paths and I think that would be cool but I wonder what that would look like

I saw someone on reddit post various victory concepts with various interesting types such as Space, Zoological, and History

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Kind of shocked Carthage doesn't have a higher Settlement Cap, though I am happy the rest of their abilities do facilitate colonization for naval trade.

 

[Leucarum]

Another option I'd like to see is for it to be more than one Legacy Path by victory type. Kinda like how crises can vary. But that's probably major DLC fodder.

I'd been toying with some ideas about making legacy paths signifcantly more randomized. Might be time to learn modding assuming that's even moddable!

 

[SeelingCat]

Carthage Uniques

Phoenician Heritage	Ability		Carthage was founded by settlers from Phoenicia, particularly the city-state of Tyre.
Shipsheds	Civic		"A covered slipway used for the storage of ships." A general reference to Carthage's maritime nature.
Wisdom of Tanit	Civic		A reference to the goddess Tanit, the goddess of "wisdom, civilization, and crafts." Derived from a local Berber deity and said to be the spouse of Baal Hammon, the chief god of Carthage.
Sicilian Wars	Civic		Also known as the Greco-Punic Wars; a series of military conflicts between Carthage and the Greek city-states of Sicily, led by Syracuse, between 580 and 265 BCE.
Quinquereme	Tradition	From Latin quīnquerēmis, "five-oared"	A heavy galley used in the classical Mediterranean, serving as the mainstay of the Carthaginian fleet.
Gaulos	Tradition	Greek, from Punic 𐤂‬𐤅‬𐤋	The island of Gozo, today part of Malta. During Carthaginian rule, had a temple to Astarte.
Suffetes	Tradition	From Punic/Phoenician 𐤔𐤐𐤈, šūfeṭ/šūpeṭ/šōfēṭ "judge"	Title held by the heads of the Carthaginian government after its transition from monarchy in 480 BCE. Like the Roman consuls, 2 suffetes were in charge of judicial and executive power and were elected.
Punic Port	District		The city of Carthage had two ports, one for military uses and the other for commercial purposes. They were joined by a canal which was also adjacent to an esplanade used to store goods.
Cothon	Building	From Greek κώθων "drinking vessel", from "a Phoenician term meaning something like 'excavated'"	An artificial harbor characteristic of Punic and Phoenician maritime cities.
Dockyard	Building		A place where ships are built. A reference to Carthage's maritime military and economic history.
Colonist	Civilian		A reference to Phoenician and Punic colonies. Carthage - itself a former colony - possessed colonies as far away as Spain, Morocco, and Italy.
Numidian Cavalry	Military		Light cavalry sourced from the Numidian people of North Africa. They were known for their expert horsemanship and agility and were used to harass less mobile enemies.

 

[pjotroos]

The win conditions definitely need a more thorough review, since they're a bit muddled currently. Increasing price of explorers makes culture victory even more of an economic victory, while economic victory remains a variant of science victory for a big part of modern era.

Compare and contrast to Antiquity ones, where the link is very clear and obvious - culture win rewards high culture per turn, economy rewards trading, and so on.

 

[queenpea]

The win conditions definitely need a more thorough review, since they're a bit muddled currently. Increasing price of explorers makes culture victory even more of an economic victory, while economic victory remains a variant of science victory for a big part of modern era.

It's almost as if it was a mistake to remove the "faith" currency from VI.

 

[Cymsdale]

Another option I'd like to see is for it to be more than one Legacy Path by victory type. Kinda like how crises can vary. But that's probably major DLC fodder.

Or scrap all the current victories and create a new victory for each legacy pair.

 

[Sagax]

I don't disagree that it's a positive step, but I don't it's "enough."

It doesn't change the fact that the cultural victory has actually very little (almost nothing) to do with culture. The optimal strategy for Explorers is:

1) Acquire territory through war in Antiquity and Exploration.
2) Have an extremely strong economy with high gold per turn.
3) Use high GPT to purchase explorers in the nearest settlement where they spawn.
4) Use strong economy to quickly build/buy museums and slot in artifacts.

They did mention that you’ll now also gain artifacts by completing Future Civic in Modern. Depending on how scarce and competitive the post-patch artifacts become, this may be one way to incentivize investment in culture. I do wonder how sensitive the balance will be between completing the World Fair this way and accidentally ending the age too soon.

As far as bandaid, non-expansion fixes go, this is about what I expected.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The win conditions definitely need a more thorough review, since they're a bit muddled currently. Increasing price of explorers makes culture victory even more of an economic victory, while economic victory remains a variant of science victory for a big part of modern era.

Compare and contrast to Antiquity ones, where the link is very clear and obvious - culture win rewards high culture per turn, economy rewards trading, and so on.

Cultural victory has connection to culture the other way around - both Museums and artifacts produce it, so you'll have high culture output as part of going towards this victory.

Speaking about connection in "normal" direction, it would make sense to spread some artifacts through civic tree, while adjusting required number of artifacts (or reducing number of diggable ones). Probably this should be done instead of digging on natural wonders. So more dependancy on civics, less on explorers.

As next iterative step, those artifacts from civics could be reflavored to great works.

 

[queenpea]

They did mention that you’ll now also gain artifacts by completing Future Civic in Modern. Depending on how scarce and competitive the post-patch artifacts become, this may be one way to incentivize investment in culture. I do wonder how sensitive the balance will be between completing the World Fair this way and accidentally ending the age too soon.

As far as bandaid, non-expansion fixes go, this is about what I expected.

That's a good catch, but it's an imperfect solution as researching future civics pushes you to score victory with its contribution to age progress. Hard to see how you would accumulate enough artifacts this way before the game comes to a close.

 

[Leucarum]

That's a good catch, but it's an imperfect solution as researching future civics pushes you to score victory with its contribution to age progress. Hard to see how you would accumulate enough artifacts this way before the game comes to a close.

I think pacing was on their list of things to tweak? Maybe we'll see more adjustments there.

I have mixed feelings there. I'd come to like the madcap scramble for points as ages end - especially multiplayer - it adds a level of "will people press the buttons to end game or can I gamble on something which takes a few more turns but would squeeze out a point or two"