CTIV-2: The Money Game
- Thread starter ChrTh
- Start date
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
And then there were three ... Methos/Conroe, I'll swap your positions permanently for the (quick) remainder of the game.
Roster
Conroe -- Just Finished
Methos -- UP
Bede -- On Deck
ChrTh -- Whistlin' In The Dark
Roster
Conroe -- Just Finished
Methos -- UP
Bede -- On Deck
ChrTh -- Whistlin' In The Dark
I’ll have to agree that going the food route and maximizing population is our best strategy at winning the UN. I’m not for sure it would be wise basing a UN victory off of our relations. So, before I start playing I’d like to make a few suggestions and get word from everyone before I play my turn set. Sorry for the hold up, but I’d rather make sure we all agree before I do something that the majority votes against.
First off is our civics. According to the variant Free Market is a preferred civic, but I don’t believe is in our best interest for this strategy. Once Medicine is learned Environmentalism becomes available, and with its +6 health in all cities that would extremely help us. We shouldn’t learn that tech until after my turn set, but figured I should still mention it. Also realize we would lose gpt due to the loss of 1 trade route per city.
In nine turns the Eiffel tower will finish and a broadcast tower will be placed in every city. A broadcast tower grants a +1 happy face per 10% culture, plus a +1 happy each for the hit wonders (BTW, we have one of them). With the broadcast towers we may not need theatres, though they would still benefit us. Even if we raised our culture slider up to 10% or 20% we would increase our happiness and thereby our population.
Biology is researched in four turns and would also help increasing our population. The only thing is I don’t recall us having any farms. I was thinking of switching at least one grass tile (or best food tile) in each cities radius to a farm to help speed up growth. This is a major change so definitely needs to be discussed before I continue. If this is agreed upon we need to discuss what tiles are switched to not wreck our cities production or commerce to badly.
One thing is several of our weaker cities would have to have workers moved off of hammer tiles and onto food tiles to increase growth. We’d have to keep a couple cities on production in order to keep up with military obviously. Every pop point counts so even a growth of one would help us. The ice city straight north of Beijing from what I remember cannot grow no matter what.
I’ll either play tonight or tomorrow night, depending on feedback.
Another problem I see is this will weaken our economy, which is against our variant.
Any suggestions, advice, or criticism?
First off is our civics. According to the variant Free Market is a preferred civic, but I don’t believe is in our best interest for this strategy. Once Medicine is learned Environmentalism becomes available, and with its +6 health in all cities that would extremely help us. We shouldn’t learn that tech until after my turn set, but figured I should still mention it. Also realize we would lose gpt due to the loss of 1 trade route per city.
In nine turns the Eiffel tower will finish and a broadcast tower will be placed in every city. A broadcast tower grants a +1 happy face per 10% culture, plus a +1 happy each for the hit wonders (BTW, we have one of them). With the broadcast towers we may not need theatres, though they would still benefit us. Even if we raised our culture slider up to 10% or 20% we would increase our happiness and thereby our population.
Biology is researched in four turns and would also help increasing our population. The only thing is I don’t recall us having any farms. I was thinking of switching at least one grass tile (or best food tile) in each cities radius to a farm to help speed up growth. This is a major change so definitely needs to be discussed before I continue. If this is agreed upon we need to discuss what tiles are switched to not wreck our cities production or commerce to badly.
One thing is several of our weaker cities would have to have workers moved off of hammer tiles and onto food tiles to increase growth. We’d have to keep a couple cities on production in order to keep up with military obviously. Every pop point counts so even a growth of one would help us. The ice city straight north of Beijing from what I remember cannot grow no matter what.
I’ll either play tonight or tomorrow night, depending on feedback.
Another problem I see is this will weaken our economy, which is against our variant.
Any suggestions, advice, or criticism?
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I don't see any major problems with anything you recommend there ... although the farms might not be worth the effort. If I have a chance tonight I'll take a look at the save and comment.
I would definitely switch civics if our variant would allow it. I thought about building the Theaters for the extra happy face from dye -- I forgot all about the happy faces from the culture slider. 
As for Biology, I started researching it because it opened up Medicine and Refrigeration. IIRC, I counted exactly 1 farm in our entire empire. 
As for more farms, I'm not so sure about this idea. I kind of like having more production than any other civ. Especially if its us that HC is building troops for. I don't mind switching cities from working mines to working food -- I'd just hate to chop down a forest and suddenly find that we need hammers to build troops.
As for Biology, I started researching it because it opened up Medicine and Refrigeration. IIRC, I counted exactly 1 farm in our entire empire. As for more farms, I'm not so sure about this idea. I kind of like having more production than any other civ. Especially if its us that HC is building troops for. I don't mind switching cities from working mines to working food -- I'd just hate to chop down a forest and suddenly find that we need hammers to build troops.
Glad to have you back Bede! BTW, what's your opinion on this discussion?
Ok, understand not wanting to swap a tile for a farm, so that is nixed. Will start working on growth as well as getting our economy back online.
I'll play late this afternoon after I wake up, so please add anything else, or criticize.
Ok, understand not wanting to swap a tile for a farm, so that is nixed. Will start working on growth as well as getting our economy back online.
I'll play late this afternoon after I wake up, so please add anything else, or criticize.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Welcome back Bede, that was painless 
@Methos, As I just got the machine up and running, have not had time to examine the save, and am off to work in about three, so best I can say say is use your best judgement. If we can grow each town that will be the best approach, maybe.
Turn 390 (1980 AD)
Nanjing begins: Theatre
Kaifeng begins: Aqueduct
Xian begins: Aqueduct
Guangzhou begins: Aqueduct
Beijing finishes: Infantry
Samarqand grows: 3
New Shanghai grows: 7
New Shanghai finishes: Harbor
Turn 391 (1981 AD)
Beijing begins: Harbor
New Shanghai begins: Aqueduct
Madrid begins: Courthouse
Marine defeats (20.64/24): Spanish Longbowman
Methos: Once the marines get there I manage to bombard Salamanca's defenses down to 27% before the Marines hit the beach.
Marine promoted: Combat I
Marine defeats (17.76/24): Spanish Longbowman
Buddhism has spread: Salamanca (Spanish Empire)
Buddhism has spread: Salamanca
Captured Salamanca (Isabella)
Methos: And Salamanca has been captured, with no loss and only minor injuries to our own men.
Methos: After we take Salamanca I sign peace. The war weariness is beginning to hurt and we don't need the angry citizens since we're trying to increase our population.
Methos: I send a Cho-ko-nu from Xian to Baoding for defense.
Guangzhou grows: 14
Madrid's borders expand
Turn 392 (1982 AD)
Barcelona begins: Granary
Tech learned: Biology
Macau grows: 11
Kaifeng grows: 12
New Shanghai grows: 8
Barcelona's borders expand
Turn 393 (1983 AD)
Research begun: Medicine
Beijing grows: 11
Turn 394 (1984 AD)
Guangzhou grows: 15
Nanjing grows: 11
Shandong finishes: Factory
New Shanghai grows: 9
Turn 395 (1985 AD)
Shandong begins: The United Nations
Methos: Since there are only 45 turns left I start work on the UN. It'll take 39 turns to complete without rushing.
Barcelona begins: Lighthouse
Beijing finishes: Harbor
Xian grows: 13
Chengdu grows: 7
Kaifeng grows: 13
Barcelona finishes: Lighthouse
Ningbo grows: 2
Turn 396 (1986 AD)
Tech learned: Military Tradition
Beijing begins: Granary
Ningbo begins: Lighthouse
Samarqand finishes: Granary
Guangzhou finishes: Aqueduct
New Shanghai grows: 10
Ningbo finishes: Lighthouse
Confucianism has spread: Baoding
Turn 397 (1987 AD)
Samarqand begins: Harbor
Guangzhou grows: 16
Tianjin grows: 12
Macau grows: 12
Methos: JC comes calling and wants to trade his Military Tradition and 610 gold for our Biology. Since he is pleased and the gold could be helpful I agree.
Turn 398 (1988 AD)
Salamanca begins: Lighthouse
Macau begins: Aqueduct
Beijing finishes: Granary
Nanjing grows: 12
Hangzhou finishes: The Eiffel Tower
Kaifeng grows: 14
New Shanghai grows: 11
New Shanghai finishes: Aqueduct
Salamanca finishes: Lighthouse
Turn 399 (1989 AD)
Beijing begins: Aqueduct
Hangzhou begins: Coal Plant
New Shanghai begins: Courthouse
Salamanca begins: Courthouse
Samarqand grows: 4
Hangzhou's borders expand
Madrid grows: 11
Turn 400 (1990 AD)
Methos: Hangzhou is building a coal plant for the production boost. It'll finish after we become Environmentalist so the +2 unhealthy won't matter.
Out of curiosity I took a screen shot of our population both before and after my turn set. I have attached both images below. At the beginning of my turn set our total population was 130, and at the end it was 152. A difference of 22. Now before New Shanghai was already in food mode so if we dont count its growth (5 pop) than the total is still 17.
I forgot to indicate this, but Genghis cancelled our Open Borders agreement towards the beginning of my turn set.
Not for sure if Ill get to play this one again, though there is still a possibility.
Though I had no intention of doing it, I ended up stopping military production entirely. My mistake. We still have at least two good production cities, if not three, that are up and running. Hangzhou is becoming a fairly decent one which I find rather odd. Also, our score has been steadily increasing every turn.
Roster:
ChrTh- On Deck
Conroe
Methos- Just Played
Bede- Up
Nanjing begins: Theatre
Kaifeng begins: Aqueduct
Xian begins: Aqueduct
Guangzhou begins: Aqueduct
Beijing finishes: Infantry
Samarqand grows: 3
New Shanghai grows: 7
New Shanghai finishes: Harbor
Turn 391 (1981 AD)
Beijing begins: Harbor
New Shanghai begins: Aqueduct
Madrid begins: Courthouse
Marine defeats (20.64/24): Spanish Longbowman
Methos: Once the marines get there I manage to bombard Salamanca's defenses down to 27% before the Marines hit the beach.
Marine promoted: Combat I
Marine defeats (17.76/24): Spanish Longbowman
Buddhism has spread: Salamanca (Spanish Empire)
Buddhism has spread: Salamanca
Captured Salamanca (Isabella)
Methos: And Salamanca has been captured, with no loss and only minor injuries to our own men.
Methos: After we take Salamanca I sign peace. The war weariness is beginning to hurt and we don't need the angry citizens since we're trying to increase our population.
Methos: I send a Cho-ko-nu from Xian to Baoding for defense.
Guangzhou grows: 14
Madrid's borders expand
Turn 392 (1982 AD)
Barcelona begins: Granary
Tech learned: Biology
Macau grows: 11
Kaifeng grows: 12
New Shanghai grows: 8
Barcelona's borders expand
Turn 393 (1983 AD)
Research begun: Medicine
Beijing grows: 11
Turn 394 (1984 AD)
Guangzhou grows: 15
Nanjing grows: 11
Shandong finishes: Factory
New Shanghai grows: 9
Turn 395 (1985 AD)
Shandong begins: The United Nations
Methos: Since there are only 45 turns left I start work on the UN. It'll take 39 turns to complete without rushing.
Barcelona begins: Lighthouse
Beijing finishes: Harbor
Xian grows: 13
Chengdu grows: 7
Kaifeng grows: 13
Barcelona finishes: Lighthouse
Ningbo grows: 2
Turn 396 (1986 AD)
Tech learned: Military Tradition
Beijing begins: Granary
Ningbo begins: Lighthouse
Samarqand finishes: Granary
Guangzhou finishes: Aqueduct
New Shanghai grows: 10
Ningbo finishes: Lighthouse
Confucianism has spread: Baoding
Turn 397 (1987 AD)
Samarqand begins: Harbor
Guangzhou grows: 16
Tianjin grows: 12
Macau grows: 12
Methos: JC comes calling and wants to trade his Military Tradition and 610 gold for our Biology. Since he is pleased and the gold could be helpful I agree.
Turn 398 (1988 AD)
Salamanca begins: Lighthouse
Macau begins: Aqueduct
Beijing finishes: Granary
Nanjing grows: 12
Hangzhou finishes: The Eiffel Tower
Kaifeng grows: 14
New Shanghai grows: 11
New Shanghai finishes: Aqueduct
Salamanca finishes: Lighthouse
Turn 399 (1989 AD)
Beijing begins: Aqueduct
Hangzhou begins: Coal Plant
New Shanghai begins: Courthouse
Salamanca begins: Courthouse
Samarqand grows: 4
Hangzhou's borders expand
Madrid grows: 11
Turn 400 (1990 AD)
Methos: Hangzhou is building a coal plant for the production boost. It'll finish after we become Environmentalist so the +2 unhealthy won't matter.
Out of curiosity I took a screen shot of our population both before and after my turn set. I have attached both images below. At the beginning of my turn set our total population was 130, and at the end it was 152. A difference of 22. Now before New Shanghai was already in food mode so if we dont count its growth (5 pop) than the total is still 17.
I forgot to indicate this, but Genghis cancelled our Open Borders agreement towards the beginning of my turn set.
Not for sure if Ill get to play this one again, though there is still a possibility.
Though I had no intention of doing it, I ended up stopping military production entirely. My mistake. We still have at least two good production cities, if not three, that are up and running. Hangzhou is becoming a fairly decent one which I find rather odd. Also, our score has been steadily increasing every turn.
Roster:
ChrTh- On Deck
Conroe
Methos- Just Played
Bede- Up
In Salamanca's port is still two transports filled with marines. The only marines off loaded were the two that took the city. I didn't know what to do with them so left them there to relax.
We need one election to determine who is the Sec. Gen. After that the next election we can make for a diplo victory, correct? If so there should just barely be enough time to hand finish the UN and have the Diplo victory decision once. That's if we don't rush it, which we probably should.
Don't forget to switch to Environmentalism. That'll help several of our cities grow even more. Plus by raising the culture slider after we learn medicine things should really look good.
We need one election to determine who is the Sec. Gen. After that the next election we can make for a diplo victory, correct? If so there should just barely be enough time to hand finish the UN and have the Diplo victory decision once. That's if we don't rush it, which we probably should.
Don't forget to switch to Environmentalism. That'll help several of our cities grow even more. Plus by raising the culture slider after we learn medicine things should really look good.
Turn 400 (1990 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Work Boat to get growth at the ice town.
Beijing grows: 12
New Shanghai grows: 12
Turn 401 (1991 AD)
And the Great Khan declares war on Hattie!!!
Tianjin grows: 13
Madrid finishes: Courthouse
Turn 402 (1992 AD)
Madrid begins: Theatre
Madrid begins: Market
Beijing finishes: Aqueduct
Guangzhou grows: 17
Nanjing grows: 13
Tianjin finishes: Market
Kaifeng grows: 15
New Shanghai grows: 13
That was a little scary but he went away quietly
Turn 403 (1993 AD)
Beijing begins: Grocer
Tianjin begins: Grocer
Tianjin begins: Theatre
Buy some Silks from Hattie. It may tick off the Khan but then he is already ticked and it reduces the happiness pressures
Tech learned: Medicine
Xian grows: 14
Macau grows: 13
Madrid's borders expand
Barcelona finishes: Granary
Turn 404 (1994 AD)
Research begun: Refrigeration
Barcelona begins: Theatre
And change to Environmentalism
Beijing begins: Rock N Roll
Turned off research after Medicine to pile up cash to buy the UN in Shandong and then RnR in Beijing which should solve all the happiness problems
Turn 405 (1995 AD)
Kaifeng finishes: Aqueduct
Madrid grows: 12
Barcelona's borders expand
Ningbo grows: 3
Turn 406 (1996 AD)
Samarqand grows: 5
Guangzhou finishes: Work Boat
Hangzhou finishes: Coal Plant
Tianjin grows: 14
New Shanghai grows: 14
Barcelona finishes: Theatre
Turn 407 (1997 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Marine
Barcelona begins: Harbor
Beijing grows: 13
Nanjing grows: 14
Baoding's borders expand
Salamanca grows: 7
Salamanca's borders expand
Turn 408 (1998 AD)
New Shanghai grows: 15
Madrid grows: 13
Bought the UN
Turn 409 (1999 AD)
Chengdu begins: Marine
Salamanca begins: Work Boat
Xian finishes: Aqueduct
Shandong finishes: The United Nations
New Shanghai finishes: Courthouse
Turn 410 (2000 AD)
Shandong begins: Coal Plant
New Shanghai begins: Barracks
New Shanghai begins: Market
Looks like we just might win the UN vote. Our population has come back nicely, and is growing quite well now. If I read the manual correctly (and if nothing has changed in the patches) we need 1.45X the population votes of the nearest rival. Near as I can tell we are already there with 27% of the world's pop compared to Huyana's 18% If we come up a little short there is still time to sail over to Egypt and take a bite out of Hattie once the silks deal can be canceled after RnR goes up. Khan and Saladin are at war with her now, and both have already asked us to join. I refused their requests due to the silks deal.
We have recovered all the ground lost after the Khanic war and have a comfortable score lead.
If we need cash we can always sell something to Caesar.
Guangzhou begins: Work Boat to get growth at the ice town.
Beijing grows: 12
New Shanghai grows: 12
Turn 401 (1991 AD)
And the Great Khan declares war on Hattie!!!
Tianjin grows: 13
Madrid finishes: Courthouse
Turn 402 (1992 AD)
Madrid begins: Theatre
Madrid begins: Market
Beijing finishes: Aqueduct
Guangzhou grows: 17
Nanjing grows: 13
Tianjin finishes: Market
Kaifeng grows: 15
New Shanghai grows: 13
That was a little scary but he went away quietly
Turn 403 (1993 AD)
Beijing begins: Grocer
Tianjin begins: Grocer
Tianjin begins: Theatre
Buy some Silks from Hattie. It may tick off the Khan but then he is already ticked and it reduces the happiness pressures
Tech learned: Medicine
Xian grows: 14
Macau grows: 13
Madrid's borders expand
Barcelona finishes: Granary
Turn 404 (1994 AD)
Research begun: Refrigeration
Barcelona begins: Theatre
And change to Environmentalism
Beijing begins: Rock N Roll
Turned off research after Medicine to pile up cash to buy the UN in Shandong and then RnR in Beijing which should solve all the happiness problems
Turn 405 (1995 AD)
Kaifeng finishes: Aqueduct
Madrid grows: 12
Barcelona's borders expand
Ningbo grows: 3
Turn 406 (1996 AD)
Samarqand grows: 5
Guangzhou finishes: Work Boat
Hangzhou finishes: Coal Plant
Tianjin grows: 14
New Shanghai grows: 14
Barcelona finishes: Theatre
Turn 407 (1997 AD)
Hangzhou begins: Marine
Barcelona begins: Harbor
Beijing grows: 13
Nanjing grows: 14
Baoding's borders expand
Salamanca grows: 7
Salamanca's borders expand
Turn 408 (1998 AD)
New Shanghai grows: 15
Madrid grows: 13
Bought the UN
Turn 409 (1999 AD)
Chengdu begins: Marine
Salamanca begins: Work Boat
Xian finishes: Aqueduct
Shandong finishes: The United Nations
New Shanghai finishes: Courthouse
Turn 410 (2000 AD)
Shandong begins: Coal Plant
New Shanghai begins: Barracks
New Shanghai begins: Market
Looks like we just might win the UN vote. Our population has come back nicely, and is growing quite well now. If I read the manual correctly (and if nothing has changed in the patches) we need 1.45X the population votes of the nearest rival. Near as I can tell we are already there with 27% of the world's pop compared to Huyana's 18% If we come up a little short there is still time to sail over to Egypt and take a bite out of Hattie once the silks deal can be canceled after RnR goes up. Khan and Saladin are at war with her now, and both have already asked us to join. I refused their requests due to the silks deal.
We have recovered all the ground lost after the Khanic war and have a comfortable score lead.
If we need cash we can always sell something to Caesar.
Just curious, but in your victory condition screenshot it shows a time victory at 2030 AD. You're final turn was on 2000 AD and the screenie showed only 30 turns left, so I'm really confused.
WillowBrook
Lurker
Bede said:So am I. So I loaded up ChrTh 4000AD save and it has 440 turns and an end date of 2030 and a game speed of "Normal", then I started a new game and it shows 460 turns and an end date of 2050.
Otherwise the math is correct.
Lurker comment:
This game was started before the last patch; I've seen other games' turns and years screwed up by playing over the patch. They changed the number of turns or something.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Yeah, it's something like that. In fact, I got confused last night playing a normal game that was going to end in 2050! 
I have it, am playing now. I guess I need to figure out how to use UN, huh?
I have it, am playing now. I guess I need to figure out how to use UN, huh?
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Turn 0 -- 2000 AD
First, RNR: should be able to afford it in 2 turns.
Second, Diplo:
Genghis, Hattie, and Saladin are all annoyed with us.
Isabella, HC, and JC are all pleased with us (maybe Izzy is pleased with us showing her the wrongness of her ways?) ... so those are the three I want to keep on our side.
Chengdu is stagnant, I mm for growth.
Shangdong is also stagnant, but we're getting way too much out of them to worry about it.
We're still 4th in soldiers but we're close to the top. Demos look good too.
So everything looks ok, I hit ENTER.
Turn 1 -- 2001 AD
Ooh, so close to being able to buy rock and roll this turn ... wait a second ...
Medicine to JC for Communism and 880 gold.
Rock and Roll is rushed.
Turn 2 -- 2002 AD
Rock and Roll is built. Start Hollywood because it'll help too.
Kaifeng: Tank > Destroyer
We trade a Hit Single to JC for Gold (little does he know it's Britney Spears!). HC doesn't have anything worth trading for (unless we wanted the Uranium).
Turn 3 -- 2003 AD
Hangzhou: Marine > Marine
Macau: Bank > Grocer
Vote comes up for UN. We have 181 votes. 254 needed for Sec-Gen (out of 635). It's us vs JC. I vote for us.
How have we not built Wall Street yet? ... I put in Nanjing and will rush it next turn.
Turn 4 -- 2004 AD
Genghis wants us to attack Hattie. I smack him.
Ok, results are in ... we're the Secretary-General! We only got 289 votes though: JC (107) was the only other to vote for us. Genghis (101), Izzy (32), and HC (118) votes for HC while Sally (55) and Hattie (40) abstain.
We require 393 votes to win diplo, so unless we get Genghis (not likely), or Sally+Hattie (not worth it) we can't win unless Genghis grows larger than HC and becomes the second candidate.
I rush Wall Street in Nanjing.
I cancel Hattie's silk deal.
All right, gentlemen, I'm going to pause here because I'm not 100% sure what we should do, and with only 26 turns left, each turn is crucial.
Thoughts?
First, RNR: should be able to afford it in 2 turns.
Second, Diplo:
Genghis, Hattie, and Saladin are all annoyed with us.
Isabella, HC, and JC are all pleased with us (maybe Izzy is pleased with us showing her the wrongness of her ways?) ... so those are the three I want to keep on our side.
Chengdu is stagnant, I mm for growth.
Shangdong is also stagnant, but we're getting way too much out of them to worry about it.
We're still 4th in soldiers but we're close to the top. Demos look good too.
So everything looks ok, I hit ENTER.
Turn 1 -- 2001 AD
Ooh, so close to being able to buy rock and roll this turn ... wait a second ...
Medicine to JC for Communism and 880 gold.
Rock and Roll is rushed.
Turn 2 -- 2002 AD
Rock and Roll is built. Start Hollywood because it'll help too.
Kaifeng: Tank > Destroyer
We trade a Hit Single to JC for Gold (little does he know it's Britney Spears!). HC doesn't have anything worth trading for (unless we wanted the Uranium).
Turn 3 -- 2003 AD
Hangzhou: Marine > Marine
Macau: Bank > Grocer
Vote comes up for UN. We have 181 votes. 254 needed for Sec-Gen (out of 635). It's us vs JC. I vote for us.
How have we not built Wall Street yet?
... I put in Nanjing and will rush it next turn.Turn 4 -- 2004 AD
Genghis wants us to attack Hattie. I smack him.
Ok, results are in ... we're the Secretary-General! We only got 289 votes though: JC (107) was the only other to vote for us. Genghis (101), Izzy (32), and HC (118) votes for HC while Sally (55) and Hattie (40) abstain.
We require 393 votes to win diplo, so unless we get Genghis (not likely), or Sally+Hattie (not worth it) we can't win unless Genghis grows larger than HC and becomes the second candidate.
I rush Wall Street in Nanjing.
I cancel Hattie's silk deal.
All right, gentlemen, I'm going to pause here because I'm not 100% sure what we should do, and with only 26 turns left, each turn is crucial.
Thoughts?
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