CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

One thing I'm curious about:

We get into a gpt deal with Persia, and then the next turn they make a demand? I wonder if they would've declared on us with the new deal? If so, that might've been a good thing; the rep hit they took could prevent them from a diplo victory (not that it was likely, but still...)

Wanderer, do you still have the autosave from your Turn 6? I would like to mess with it
 
I got a chance to open the save this evening and I noticed that one of the four remaining American cities (Paris I think) has the Pyramids. It would have been nice to capture that city before signing peace.
 
Originally posted by Earp
I got a chance to open the save this evening and I noticed that one of the four remaining American cities (Paris I think) has the Pyramids. It would have been nice to capture that city before signing peace.
Click to expand...

Too late...
 
error ! my bad :-(

I should have the auto save - i'll look for it and post it soon
 
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CTR1--410ad.SAV

@ChrTh 410 ad save....

I would be very happy to hear some comments, esp criticisms, from you and others, based on my moves from 410 ad to 450 ad. People have all been very complimentary in their posting, but I need to have my nose rubbed in mistakes, so I can learn! I've yet to win at emperor, and my other SG (wander 001) monarchy game will be an infrequent win at monarchy level (we shuold win in the next 2 or 3 players turns).

CiaO
 
Wanderer from what you've posted it doesn't look you made any mistakes. I think the most important part of any game is the start. A good start gives you a great chance at a win. Something I would like to do at some point with a group of players is to create a save and each of the players play, say, 50 turns and post reports on what they did and why. If a group of players all play the same start they have a good chance to look at how other people play, and what mistakes they make in their game. This would be an interesting thing to try. We wouldn't necesserily play on with the game, just do it as an exercise to compare and contrast different players approaches to a certain situation.

Anyway, back to the game. Defensive units seem to be an issue at the moment. My feeling is to put muskets in our border towns. They aren't really need in our core, as unless an AI lands a big naval invasion they should be safe. I would probably put units in those cities anyway if I could afford to, but my borders would be my priority.
 
@Shard - not capturing the pyramids ? fr4ee granaries for our 31 cities.

If youdecide to run the "getnlemen, start your engines" thread, PLEASE invite me. I think it's a great idea, and I definitely want to be in it!
 
Yes, not capturing the pyramids was a mistake, but Earp already mentioned that - didn't want to go over old ground again.

I will start a thread like that at some point - in fact this week is probably a good time for me, but I am not sure where it belongs. It probably doesn't count as a sucession game - maybe Stories & Tales? I was thinking we would probably try more than one start, to see how people survive in different environments.
 
@all - forgive the off topic.
@shard :
yeah - like a "first 50 turn's school".

Say generate 5 random start, give everyone a specific goal, or let them choose ? If everyone goes along different paths, it's difficult to determine how one method compared to another.

EG Lesson 1: Cities 101
Maybe you give people a start , and say that the goal is max cities in 50 turns. Then try with a different start, and then another.

Lesson 2 : Units 101
Then we go generating the best/most useful war machine in 50 turns, and do a few iterations.


That kind of thing ??
 
SHard and Wanderer, IMO, what you all are discussing sounds alot like GOTM. Playing the GOTM and QSC, and then comparing what I did against other more skilled players has helped to improve my playing skills tremendously.

Here is my game report
0 - 450 AD
Entertainers go on unemployment throughout the empire.
Switch four cities stuck at size 6 to aqueducts.
Send settler towards empty space in former American/French lands.
Gandhi is polite to our ambassador and offers us some vegetarian curry. We have 688 Gold and +153 gpt.
We buy Metallurgy from Gandhi for WM, 42 gpt and 305 g.
Sell Metallurgy to Iroquois for Spices, 301 g, and WM.
We get Metallurgy for 844g(42x20+4) and Gandhi would take a big income hit if he decides to attack us.
Noone has Military Tradition.
Samurai and musketman both have a defense of 4. I think we have enough of an excess of samurai currently to not need to upgrade our pikes right now.

IBT The Persians finish Smith's
The Indians capture two of the four American towns

1 - 460 AD
Kyoto Library --> Worker
Dark Blue Temple --> Library

IBT England and Persia sign alliance against the Iroquois
The Indians take Paris. :(

2 - 470 AD
Chicago Temple --> Caravel
Rush Temple in Orleans
Rush Aqueduct in Dark Chocolate. I did not realize until this turn that our city with the FP is stuck at size 6!
IBT The fur deal with Persia expires. We trade Dyes, 192G, 49GPT for Physics and Furs
The Indians destroy the Americans

3 - 480 AD
Orleans Temple-->Worker - I usually build workers with hopelessly corrupt towns such as this one.
Denver Temple --> Courthouse
Dark Chocolate Aqueduct --> Library
Teach our lone spearman to use muskets.
The Iroquois have Democracy, but not Magnetism or TOG.
We still don't have a road to Delhi.
Lizzy has the best prices and wants Incense. This will delay our war, but we still do not have any boats built and the war can wait 20 turns. We buy Magnetism from England for Incense, 44gpt and 205 gold.
We buy Democracy from the Iroquois for WM, Magnetism, Dyes, 11 gpt, and 10 g
We begin the switch to Democracy.

IBT Our source of saltpepper runs out. Luckily we have another unconnected source in our territory.

4 - 490 AD
We are now a Democracy.
England and Persia have discovered Military Tradition, but India does not.
Buy MT from Liz for WM, Silks, 63 gpt, and 14g
Buy Theory of Gravity and TM from India for MT, 6 gpt, and 15g

IBT Renegotiate with Liz. Increase price of dyes we are selling from 6gpt to 16gpt and 8g

5 - 500 AD
Miami Temple --> Courthouse
Debate giving Iroquois Military Tradition for Free Artistry, WM, and 16g. Decide to wait. The main benefit would be to help him prevent England from over-running their continent.

IBT Renegotiate with Liz. Increase price of ivory we are selling to 16gpt and 8g

6 - 510 AD
Osaka Marketplace --> Temple
Sirp-orange Aqueduct --> Marketplace
Dark-Green Aqueduct --> Galleon

IBT Liz wants us to sign a ROP and alliance vs. the Iroquois. This would break our gpt deal with Hiawatha so we decline.

7 - 520 AD
Satsuma Aqueduct --> Courthouse
Nara founded

8 - 530 AD
Move workers

9 - 540 AD
Kyoto Marketplace --> Worker
Osaka Temple --> Worker - Osaka and Kyoto are stuck at size 12 and should produce a worker every now and then.
San Francisco Courthouse --> Barracks
Road finally connected to Delhi. Sell Gandhi Silks for 21 gpt

IBT London finishes Shakespeare's

10 - 550 AD
Kyoto Worker --> Bank
Osaka Worker --> Library
Dark Blue Marketplace --> Library

We are down Nationalism to Persia and England. We have several gpt and luxury deals that prevent us from attacking anyone for a few more turns. I have not upgraded any troops yet.

The Save


fixed link to save
 
I "got" it...will try to play on Sunday, but honestly I'm a little burned out on GOTM 20...

BTW, we're now at 5 turns apiece. I won't be starting war my turn...
 
Well played Earp, good turns. You traded well to get us basically level in tech :)

What does everyone think to starting a prebuild for ToE at some point? (Not straight away, but fairly soon). If we use the ToE effectively we could get a nice little tech lead and surely have the game under our control.
 
There's one problem with ToE on Deity level...unlike the previous levels, even with a prebuild you may not get it...and since the Standard Procedure is to run Science @ 0% when the ToE will be done before the next tech is researched, if you fail to get the ToE, you'll have lost those turns that you didn't research (although you'll still have the cash)...
Not that this just happened to me in GOTM20 or anything... ;) (also missed Hoover Dam by 1 turn)
 
Space:
If you think you'll have time to play today/tonight, go ahead and swap with me. I had an emergency at work so I'm not going to have a chance to play before Tuesday night (US East Coast time). If not, I'll play then.
 
Ok guys, before I play I wanna discuss some issues:

1. Our attacking force is currently defending our new cities. *If* we're going to attack England (they know Mil Trad already :( ) we need them replaced by defenders. Unfortunately that would be muskets now; expensive and worthless. Nationalism is on its way now, I want to switch two decently producing Rax cities to muskets (later rifles).

2. We nee a Palace jump to up our production. My suggestion is Boston, but maybe you guys want to see it move to the southren continent? We have a lot of elite forces which I suggest we do not upgrade to make chances for GL bigger. Are we gambling on one or shall I start building the Palace?

3. We need more workers, Steam Power is around the corner. I want your blessing on using some gold to buy the temples in the east and switch to workers (and prey we have coal within our borders).

What do y'all think?
 
Space:

1. I wouldn't build defenders. Build attackers (samurai). My reasoning is this. The knights are more mobile. If we are attacked they can get to the scene of the accident fast and attack our attackers. Much more efficient than allowing muskets to be strangled to death in a city. If there is one sam in a town, the turn b4 a new knight is completed, the old sam can start its journey to the boat. Also this way we have a larger potential attack force. Just save enough cash so you can rush a musket if need be.

2. Yes. We need a palace jump. If you can build a palace then you're trying to build it too close to the FP if you see what I mean. I would pick a city that has a ring of other cities around it and around 12 tiles from the FP. If thats Boston then fine. We have too much invested in Kyoto for a free jump. So I would wait for a Leader. The Problem with putting the Palace oversees is that it will take too much time to develop the new core (Resistance, high foreign populations, slave workers etc). So my vote would be, next leader for either Palace jump or TOE, depending on how close we are to scientific method.

3. I would buy all the temples now. In fact if I were playing solo it would have been done already. I'm frankly amazed that we haven't suffered two or three flips already. Democracy improves the worker rate by 50%. I believe we need around 25 Japanese workers and Democracy to get our empire fully railed in good time.

My main focus right now would be to get 6 galleons built so we can attack two English cities simultaneously with stacks of 12 Cavalry. I would buy Galleons on second turn of production.

It would be a big mistake to upgrade the elite Sams. Having said that, it would also be a mistake to put them in the frontline immediately. They should go over to england on the second crossing. In the meantime, they can be makeshift defenders.

Can we borrow any money from Persia or India?
 
Thanks Mad, just the kind of input I was hoping for.

@1: Can't build Sams nomore :( , only cavalry... :)

@2: Boston is 16 tiles away from Dark Chocolate and has a production of 2 shields after corruption. San Francisco is 12 tiles away and has a production of 7 after. So actually there it could be handbuilt (if you take the time :) )

@3: I agree

No loans available I afraid.

Galleons are being built but frankly we dont have enough forces to put in them as all but about 6 of our sams are on defensive duties, that why I wanted to build replacements for them. So either we build cavs and keep the sams as defenders barring the elites (already nicly stacked in Kyoto) or build slightly cheeper defenders and upgrade the vet sams.
 
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