CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

[ChrTh]

Roster Votes:
ChrTh
Space Oddity -- Waiting for firm vote
Infoman -- #3
Mad-Bax -- #3
SHard -- #3
Wanderer -- Waiting for vote
Earp -- #2 if fresh, #3 otherwise

First Alternate:
inudog -- #3

I think #3 is going to be my choice as well, meaning it wins. I'll check tonight, and if #3 is on the river, that's the game I'll start. If not, we'll put it back to a vote.

Oh, and Sullla, you're too qualified for this game anyway

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by infoman
Can you move me down the player list to the bottom. I am going out of town Friday and will not have internet access (family trip)?
I do not want to be skipped on the first round of turns.

Thanks in advance.


Banzai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've been dropped on the roster. Have fun!

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by ChrTh
I'll check tonight, and if #3 is on the river, that's the game I'll start.

I'm fine with that. If #3 is not on a the river, it has still the best potential IMHO, it just means the capital will be our settler factory and won't grow bigger than 5 or 6 anyway.

Is that a firm enough vote for #3?

edit: looking at the pics again made me notice you don't see any hills in #3 at all in the 21 tiles (they would stick out of the fog). As Sheepstriker informs me that 'll mean no iron near the capital. Oh oh, still no firm vote .

 

[Earp]

I'm 99.9% sure that #3 is on the river. The wheat on irrigated plains will be 3.1.2

I don't understand why everyone is so against start #2.

If #2's water is fresh, we would have three +3 food tiles in our city radius.
The fish on the lake is 3.0.2. The lake would give it +1 food.
The wines on irrigated grassland would also be 3.0.2.
The game on mined tundra would only be 2.1.1
If the water is fresh, I think our capital would have more food production in #2 than in #3. Unless #3 has resources that we can not see.

Someone correct me if my math is wrong.

Start #2 would have immediate access to wine which would mean we wouldn't have to adjust our slider until we grow to size 3.

Start #2 may look cold and dry, but #3 could also be on the edge of a desert.

If the water is a coastline, I understand why #2 would be difficult, but if it's a lake, can someone with more experience than myself please explain why #3 is the clear choice over #2.

I like this already. I'm learning and the game hasn't even begun yet.

 

[a space oddity]

Earp: Likewise .

I'm trying to set up a map to test whether #3 is on the river or not. I read somewhere and experienced myself that sometimes on the outside of a bend in the river the city will not be on it.

 

[ChrTh]

On #3 Hills:

There may be hills to the north, we just can't see them. In any case, if we are dependent upon Iron right away, we're hosed, because we can't win an Ancient War game. Of course, let's hope Persia is nowhere near Iron either...

 

[a space oddity]

Yeah, by al means lets keep our fingers crossed . I did a test with the use of the editor and it looks like #3 is on the river allright! Great!

 

[Quokka]

The problem with #2 is not the start spot per se, if that water is fresh, its what the surrounds look like. Tundra everywhere to the north and south of the start and desert. Your capital would be great but do you want your inner ring to be Tundra fishing villages?

If the water is not fresh then the start is pretty hopeless. The river to the west is not usable to irrigate due to the tundra and there is no visible fresh water so there could be none close by and it could take 1000's of years to get irrigation to Kyoto, and you would need an Aqueduct to get past size 6. Also with no irrigation the Wines won't get 3 food under Despotism so no food bonus until revolution.

#3 has a bonus food tile and is on fresh water. The river can be used to irrigate the Plains and will give extra commerce to those tiles. The water in #2 even if fresh doesn't give a commerce bonus. There is also a BG.

There are no hills in the 21 from the start spot but there could be some close by. Worrying about wether Iron will be in the 21 of the capital is giving yourself grey hairs for nothing. You'll be wanting to work irrigated plains and not hills anyway to keep the food surplus high. If there is another bonus food tile around then there are forest about that you can work. They have the same production under Despotism.

Make sure you move the Worker before you move the Settler, it may uncover some territory that would make it worth while to move the Settler if not you would have moved it to the Wheat first anyway.

#3 could be on the edge of a desert but there is at least one river and could be more. Desert + River = Floodplains. You should be so lucky.

 

[Earp]

Quokka, thanks for the detailed explanation. As I understand it, if #2 has fresh water, the capital will be okay, but it is surrounded by too much tundra and desert for the core cities to be productive. The lack of rivers and the commerce they provide is also a big negative.

I agree with Matt_G that there may be a flood plain North of the wheat in #3. Irrigating and roading the wheat and flood plain will give us two +3 food tiles and a great settler producing city.

 

[Quokka]

Quokka, thanks for the detailed explanation. As I understand it, if #2 has fresh water, the capital will be okay, but it is surrounded by too much tundra and desert for the core cities to be productive. The lack of rivers and the commerce they provide is also a big negative.

Exactly

 

[a space oddity]

Worrying about wether Iron will be in the 21 of the capital is giving yourself grey hairs for nothing.

It is not that I worry about it, it's just that I'm trying to weigh all the pro's and con's. #1 Also has the advantage of a river and has better odds for iron. #2 and #3 probably have a higher chance on saltpeter. Like everybody said #3 has a river *and* bonusfood, so is probably the best way to go.

 

[Wanderer]

Hi all,

Sorry to check in so late -- didn't see this thread before I went to sleep - maybe it wasn't up ? - I think I have something like a 8 hour time difference with some of you.

I must admit that while start 3 looks strong, I worry about the potential for a desert to our left (west). #2 is very dodg (imho). I kinda like 1, but as was pointed out - that many moutains will limit us.

Looking forward - what do we want to try from a tech point of view ? Our samurai come too late to influence our decision now. Since we're milit, we get bronze, I think. Are we going to try playing early "pointy stick", and go for Iw or do we want to try the alpha,writing,lit route ?

 

[ChrTh]

I'm going to start alpha/writing...I want to be able to get Communications with other Civs earlier, because we'll probably be playing catchup with science the whole game. If others disagree, let me know, otherwise I'm starting with Alphabet. (Although I'm hopping the hut pops a Tech)

EDIT: Scratch that: Bronze Working first. We get The Wheel and Ceremonial Burial to start the game.

 

[ChrTh]

One mo' thing: With start #3, 5 of our 21 are going to be desert, unless there's a river to the West. I think we'll have enough food growth tiles to overcome that, but it's a nuisance.

Oh yeah, so is the consensus that the first worker action should be Irrigate the Wheat?

 

[a space oddity]

Hi Wanderer,
a lot of us are from Europe and I'm from the Netherlands so I think we only have 1 hour difference.

I don't think pointy stick would work very well on Deity with their extra units, especially in the beginning. What I see happening in most SGs is trying for a tech that is rarely researched by the AI, in order to have something to trade.

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by ChrTh
One mo' thing: With start #3, 5 of our 21 are going to be desert, unless there's a river to the West. I think we'll have enough food growth tiles to overcome that, but it's a nuisance.

Indeed

Originally posted by ChrTh
Oh yeah, so is the consensus that the first worker action should be Irrigate the Wheat?

Yes

 

[Wanderer]

@space : proably right - pointy stick wrong thought .... naughty wanderer ... go to bed without supper *grin*

Agree on the irrigate, then road.

Bronze for defence, then we can try for a trading tech, or vice versa ?

Build : 2 to 3 warrior's for defence and explore, then granary so we can get settler's going faster ?

ciao

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by Wanderer
... go to bed without supper *grin*

... and don't let it happen again. Well, maybe in a thousand years or so...

I agree on the build sequence, so maybe you get to stay up for a bit yet. I think we'll have to leave one warrior guarding our capital for happiness' sake.

 

[ChrTh]

We'll probably need at least two warriors/spearmen guarding all of our cities until we get our of despotism. Also, be careful about leaving Workers unguarded, other Civs will launch wars if they see a choice target.

With the Wheat and likely Flood Plain, Granary is probably unnecessary right away. I think we should build Warrior (Defense)--Warrior(Explore)--Warrior(Defense, to go with Settler)--Settler--Spearman(Defense) to start the game, and then figure out what we need to build next.

DO NOT TRADE 'The Wheel' TO THE IROQUOIS!!!!!!!!

 

[Shillen]

A little advice from me.

Definitely don't try pointy stick research early on deity. You want to play nice little boy/girl and give in to all the bullies. War too early will be hard to overcome. You want to expand as fast as possible and build up your infrastructure as fast as possible as well. Marketplaces are key.

Continents map so you'll most likely have 2 neighbors. Hopefully you'll be between 2 of them and you can withhold contact and make the most out of trades.

Standard map so you can learn some techs under 40 turns at max science if you wanted to. Personally I don't think it's worth doing that unless you're on a small or tiny map. I'd probably leave science off to start and build up cash. As soon as an AI gets mysticism trade for it and do a 40 turn gambit on polytheism. Hopefully after that you'll be able to trade for code of laws + philosophy and you can do 40 turns on republic. You don't want to have to buy that tech, it's a lot easier to research it at min. If you don't have the requisite techs yet you can go for 40 turns on monarchy and hope to trade it for republic.

I really would advise against building many spearmen early on. They cost too many shields. You're better off using warriors for defense. As long as you try to keep at least one warrior in each of your cities the AI will usually leave you alone. Also don't settle within 3 tiles of an AI city. They will deem that as a threat and be more likely to wage war on you. Not to mention you won't win the cultural battle and they will probably flip your city eventually.

Making contact with the other continent(s) first can be an incredible boost as well. Make sure to explore your coast and try to find connections to another continent.

Good luck.

edit: Actually I forgot about pottery. I'd research pottery at max while waiting for mysticism to come in. You're definitely going to want a granary in your capital.