CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

[Earp]

Of our six starting opponenets, 3 have pottery, 3 have alphabet, 3 have masonry, 2 have ceremonial burial, and 1 has bronze working.

I think we should initially go after pottery at max in order to build a granary in our capital. With half of the civs already having it, it should be fairly cheap.

 

[Shillen]

Originally posted by Earp
Of our six starting opponenets, 3 have pottery, 3 have alphabet, 3 have masonry, 2 have ceremonial burial, and 1 has bronze working.

I think we should initially go after pottery at max in order to build a granary in our capital. With half of the civs already having it, it should be fairly cheap.

You have to have contact with them for the tech to get devalued. It could turn out all the pottery civ's are on another continent and you'll be researching at full cost. But anyway I do think you should research it right away so you can grab as much land as possible.

 

[inudog]

Originally posted by ChrTh
I think we should build Warrior (Defense)--Warrior(Explore)--Warrior(Defense, to go with Settler)--Settler--Spearman(Defense) to start the game, and then figure out what we need to build next.

Is it necessary to keep the first warrior as defense? We would get more exploration done if the first warrior went to explore and the second went on defense. Or is it because of the wheat that we will grow to 3 before we build two warriors?

 

[Shillen]

Originally posted by inudog
Is it necessary to keep the first warrior as defense? We would get more exploration done if the first warrior went to explore and the second went on defense. Or is it because of the wheat that we will grow to 3 before we build two warriors?

On deity the second citizen will be unhappy. But still you'll be much better off just turning lux up to 10% while your warrior explores. It could be the difference between getting 2 techs in early trades and getting none. The plains wheat will produce 2 food and 1 shield initially. This means your first warrior will be done in 5 turns. If you irrigate right away you'll complete that in 4 turns. So you'll get 2 * 4 + 3 * x = 20 food. x = 4 turns. So you'll grow in x+4 = 8 turns. Therefore you won't get your second warrior before you grow to 2. But like I said it's not worth it just for military police, you need to get out and make contact as soon as possible.

With that I'll go back into lurker mode. I don't want to seem like I'm playing the game for you guys. I will be watching though and look forward to seeing how you guys do.

 

[Earp]

I, for one, appreciate the advice and corrections from players with more knowledge than myself. That's how we learn. If you don't feel comfortable telling us what we should do before we do it, please atleast tell us what we did wrong after we do it. Thanks.

I think we should explore as much as possible early. I usually send my first warrior out to see what's out there. I usually use my second warrior as a defender. Does the AI have time to threaten us before we build a second warrior? The third warrior I send out exploring briefly before returning to escort the settler to the second city location.

I don't usually build many spearman. I am under the impression that the AI doesn't recognize the difference between them and warriors.

Should we pre-build/build a granary after our third warrior and before the first settler. In my experience, this helps the expansion more than building a settler before the granary.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, ok, here's the skinny. Turn 9...city just grew to 2, will riot next turn...but a Warrior is due next turn. What happens first, building a unit or rioting?

I'll wait a little while to see an answer

Another question: Worker is done with road. Should he now:
A: Mine the shielded plain
B: Irrigate the Flood Plain

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 1 -- 4000 BC
I check the starting spot: 1 gold. We is on the reever.

Make a couple of settings changes to make it more readable.

Move Worker on to Wheat: Yep, there be a Flood Plain

Kyoto is built; Warrior is ordered up
Goody hut gave us...? Ah, 25 gold

Bronze Working is ordered; again, I disagree with the Granary idea. We have a Wheat and a Flood Plain in our borders, and we'll probably grow faster than our luxury rate can keep up.

Yes, there are 5 desert squares in our 21-square border, but that seems to be the extent of the desert, with hills and mountains to the west. A TON of river squares, as the river to our east runs to our west.
Two shielded plains also in our borders. Not too shabby (just wish there was a luxury nearby)

I press Enter

Turn 2 -- 3950 BC
Worker begins irrigating

Turn 3 -- 3900 BC


Turn 4 -- 3850 BC


Turn 5 -- 3800 BC

No scouts have shown up yet. I reckon that may mean neither the Americans or the Iroquois are nearby,

Turn 6 -- 3750 BC
Warrior is built, another ordered up. The questions is, which way to go?
I decide to move him North, as that's the most promising area for expansion
Worker starts road

Turn 7 -- 3700 BC
Spoke too soon. American scout has shown up. I say 'Howdy'
Americans have Pottery, Masonry, and Warrior Code (!)
Choice of Wheel and 40 Gold for Masonry,
Wheel for Pottery
Wheel for Warrior Code

I decide to trade The Wheel for Pottery, since everyone seems gung-ho on Granary, even if I'm not. If this trade is , I blame peer pressure

Turn 8 -- 3650 BC
Warrior moves on nearby mountain: Horses to the NW. We'll probably want our second city somewhere near there.

Turn 9 -- 3600 BC
City just grew to 2, and will riot next turn--but Warrior is due next turn as well...what happens first, riot or build? I submit the question and wait for an answer... (I'll go do dishes)

Ok, I've done the research and found that cities will riot first, so I up lux to 10% for 1 turn. I send the worker north to do the Flood Plain (he'll work his way in a circle through the shielded plains this way)
More flood plains to the NW. Mo' mountains to the West.

Turn 10 -- 3550 BC
Kyoto: Warrior > Warrior (can be vetoed by next player)
Quick check on the Americans. They have access to incense (more desert to our far west?)
Worker begins to irrigate flood plain.

Next player can up science (we're making 5 gold per turn). Next turn the borders expand.

I've made probably 40+ moves ... it'll be interesting to hear/see what I did wrong

Here's the world as we know it:

Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CTR1--3550_BC.SAV

For those who want to play them, here are the first two starting positions:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CTR1--Start1.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CTR1--Start2.SAV

 

[ChrTh]

ChrTh << Just played (and handsome, too!)
Space Oddity << UP!
Mad-Bax << On Deck
SHard
Wanderer
Earp
Infoman

First Alternate:
inudog

 

[ChrTh]

You know, I just realized: irrigating the flood plain may be ... was it?

 

[jack merchant]

I don't have the map in front of me but irrigating the flood plains sounds like a pretty good idea - in despotism, you lose the food bonus otherwise. More food = good.

 

[Matt_G]

Originally posted by ChrTh
You know, I just realized: irrigating the flood plain may be ... was it?

No.
Floodplain= 3 food. Despotism knocks it down to 2, irrigating brings it to 3. Glad to see my guess was right about the floodplain.

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Matt_G


No.
Floodplain= 3 food. Despotism knocks it down to 2, irrigating brings it to 3. Glad to see my guess was right about the floodplain.

Ok, that was my original thought, but then I was thinking "But it was only 2 to start, and irrigating brings it up to 3, but despotism brings it back down to 2"...so the confusion was which how much it starts.

 

[a space oddity]

Got it!

I'm at work now and have to work late today, so I won't play my turns for a while yet. So there's time to discuss city placements:
I like the idea of the Emperor AW training where they place each city at three tiles distance so that each unit can move about quickly and safe. The downside is that the cities won't be able to grow very large. What are your thoughts on this guys?

 

[mad-bax]

Space: As we explore things will change. I think we need to get the second or third city in a shield rich location for barracks and units. The horse is a good spot, but too far away for the second city. So I have circled where I believe a good location would be for the second city (in pink). The Settler can get there in 1 turn after the floodplain is roaded. The third city can then take advantage of the horse (in orange). Unfortunately it means a forrest chop, so timing this will be important so the shields are not wasted.

The downside to my suggestion for the second city placement is that it will not be able to share the wheat. However it does have access to the floodplain and will provide a good worker pump with the odd settler thrown in.

So my suggestion is

Capital - Standard settler factory

City 2 - Worker pump + occaisional settler without granary.

City 3 - Military unit centre, pumping horsemen after barracks.

Other people may have other ideas of course...I'm only an idiot.

 

[ChrTh]

mad-bax,

Not a bad plan, but I'd want to see what was up in that direction first. We should either bring our warrior up and about to check it out, or send the next warrior over there.

Space: When Kyoto expands, you'll probably want to grab the floodplain when done. Be careful, as Kyoto WILL riot at 3 unless we keep the second warrior in town.

 

[a space oddity]

I totally agree on the city spots, they will be spaced at three tiles distance and I also agree on the prod purpose of 'm.

We will have to see again after some more exploring. I'll send the next warrior north to also get a peek at the surrounds of city #2 (and he can use the road).

 

[mad-bax]

I would consider using the warrior fortified in Kyoto to explore north and putting the lux slider up for 3 turns. I am particularly interested in where the rivers go as it will probably dictate city placement to a large extent.

The first warrior could be used to establish contacts on the starting landmass. Our primary objective might be to take the starting landmass ASAP.

Can someone explain to me the upgrade path to Samurai? Is is via horsemen or via swordsmen?

Lastly, has anyone given any thought to a victory condition yet?
I would favour a 100K or domination win.

 

[ChrTh]

Samurai are via horsemen

Victory conditions? Good lord man! We'll take any win we can get!

 

[a space oddity]

I would favour a 100K or domination win.

Ever the optimist, eh?!

But you're right, if we do want a 100k win, we need to know this from the start. I'm thinking we will need our cheap temples and cathedrals anyway to keep our people happy. And we need to limit the others so strat will not differ to much from dominition.
It will depend on how the other civs develop (one thing for sure: fast, very fast ).

 

[Sirp]

Uhh...guys, I hate to break it to you, but a 100k culture win is NOT going to happen.

The AI gets so much culture that you having half as much culture as the top AI civ is a pipe dream.

The only way you could get a 100k culture win is by hammering the AIs into submission and then milking your way to one....and I assume you don't want to do that.

-Sirp.