ratrangerm
Prince
Oh, I should add before anyone asks... the third Scout was one I found in a hut after my second one was finished. So that's how I ended up with three.
Cultural Victory Challenge #4: Pericles
- Thread starter ratrangerm
- Start date
1E of the copper is definitely not a bad site. Copper, 3 flood plains, spices, 2 grassland hills and 2 desert hills. Great production, enough food. 2E of the copper is also an option as it also gets the gold but you will gain 3 desert tiles for 1 gold tile. IMHO it is better to settle a city in between there where you grab the gold and some of the left over flood plains to make a mediocre city. Get that copper city up ASAP, pump out axemen and take over Toku since his capital is golden and is THE PRIME candidate for a legendary city.
Your early builds makes me feel bad :/ you really really want that worker out faster... There is also nothing wrong with building a settler while you look for where to settle. Also when you say not great site you mean that insane multiple floodplain cottage heaven with gold and copper right? Are we looking at the same map? That city defiantly got potential to go legendary due to cottages.. 2E of the copper would give the most floodplains and best long term potential but i am not sure if i like the health situation in the very short term. -3 health due to floodplains shouldn't be too bad though(you get +2 from river and +1 from forests).. 1E is soo much worse it is not funny. It avoids the desert(2 squares) but what the hell is that good for when you just get coast instead you lose river needed to balance the health and you lose the gold..
settle the copper city soon.
I would settle on the desert hill (which is a pretty useless tile anyway), to get a bunch of FPs for happy cottaging.
If you build a monument soon enough, you can grab access to the gold. It's not a prefect cultural city, but it's only half bad. Could be good enough.
+ there is room all around for "helper cities" = cities working the cottages while the city is growing.
edit : now that you have built 3 warriors, one more is not going to hurt you! maybe you can still do the warrior rush?
I wouldn't but wouldlike to hear from others if it's viable.
I would settle on the desert hill (which is a pretty useless tile anyway), to get a bunch of FPs for happy cottaging.
If you build a monument soon enough, you can grab access to the gold. It's not a prefect cultural city, but it's only half bad. Could be good enough.
+ there is room all around for "helper cities" = cities working the cottages while the city is growing.
edit : now that you have built 3 warriors, one more is not going to hurt you! maybe you can still do the warrior rush?
I wouldn't but wouldlike to hear from others if it's viable.
the desert hill is on the river, while the desert isn't.
not enough to convince you? I'm pretty sure this city will have a hard time with health if you do't get access to fresh water.
How is it giving up on a prime spot? both city sites have 6 FPs. cottageability is really similar. What's the big deal?
edit : I've looked again, and clearly, the desert hill is boxing in the same category as the desert.
One peak and one desert for the desert hill city, 2 coastal squares while being 1 tile away from the coast for the desert.
Or did you mention another site and I overlooked your post?
edit 2 : I read what you were proposing. 2E of the copper is 7 FPs but 3 desert tiles (not mentionning desert hills which are clearly subpar tiles). Sure you get gold. Big deal. I would stille settle the desert hill, which has the best potential : the possible helper cities are a big deal IMHO, and 2E of the copper can't get a good northern helper.
ratrangerm
Prince
I guess in terms of what I was thinking about city sites, I was looking at food resources as well. 
Anyway, weighing the two spots suggested.
2E of Copper: Gets Gold sooner, closer to Toku so as to do a better job of blocking him.
Desert hill: Has less problems with healthiness, desert hills aren't a good tile to work.
I'm leaning more toward 2E of Copper... early on, I'll want to be whipping, so the unhealthiness is less of an issue.
I'll work on a dotmap of the northern part of the map tonight.
Anyway, weighing the two spots suggested.
2E of Copper: Gets Gold sooner, closer to Toku so as to do a better job of blocking him.
Desert hill: Has less problems with healthiness, desert hills aren't a good tile to work.
I'm leaning more toward 2E of Copper... early on, I'll want to be whipping, so the unhealthiness is less of an issue.
I'll work on a dotmap of the northern part of the map tonight.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
I might have done 1 SW of the Copper. The disadvantage is that you lose a few flood plains, but the advantage is that you gain a Cow and the coastline.
However, once you gain access to the Cow, growth of the city won't be a problem.
1 N of the Gold to get the flood plains. If Copper is the priority, then settle 1 SW of the Copper first, and then follow up quickly with 1 N of the Gold to get a super-yield commerce city.
As far as the Spice goes, you can probably get that eventually through border expansion, although settling a third city in that area is not out of the question.
1 SW of Copper gives you 1 good square to begin with, which is probably better than the 1 square you can have with 2 E of Copper. With the high production of the Copper, you build a Monument to gain access to the Cow. This won't be a legendary city, but you can then follow up by building 1 N of Gold, which opens up great possibilities for a legendary city.
Another option is 2 S of the Copper, which has better long-term growth potential than 1 SW of the Copper, but it loses access to the coastline.
Another combination to consider: 2 S of Copper, 1 NE of Copper, and 1N of Gold. That's two coastal cities and access to all 4 resources Spice, Copper, Gold, and Cow. The 2 S of Copper city would be the legendary city.
In conclusion, considering the 4 resources available in that vicinity (Cow, Copper, Spice, and Gold), I think you should place the Copper and Cow at high priority and the Spice at low priority (obviously, since you can't get access to it until Calendar).
The 1st city should therefore try to grab both the Copper and the Cow (either 1 SW of Copper or 2 S of Copper would be great, depending on how much you value the coastline). 1 SW of Copper, in addition to coastline, gives you slightly faster growth before you build a Monument, because it's right next to the Copper.
To grab the Gold, 1 N of Gold looks really good for commerce and sea access, if you don't mind having low production. For slightly better production, you can try 1 W of Gold instead. You lose access to the sea, but you gain access to 3 hill tiles.
You can even try an all-water approach: start with 1 SW of Copper, then do 1 N of Gold. After you get Calendar, make another city right on top of the Spice. There's almost no overlap of city tiles, and all 3 cities have access to the coastline.
However, once you gain access to the Cow, growth of the city won't be a problem.
1 N of the Gold to get the flood plains. If Copper is the priority, then settle 1 SW of the Copper first, and then follow up quickly with 1 N of the Gold to get a super-yield commerce city.
As far as the Spice goes, you can probably get that eventually through border expansion, although settling a third city in that area is not out of the question.
1 SW of Copper gives you 1 good square to begin with, which is probably better than the 1 square you can have with 2 E of Copper. With the high production of the Copper, you build a Monument to gain access to the Cow. This won't be a legendary city, but you can then follow up by building 1 N of Gold, which opens up great possibilities for a legendary city.
Another option is 2 S of the Copper, which has better long-term growth potential than 1 SW of the Copper, but it loses access to the coastline.
Another combination to consider: 2 S of Copper, 1 NE of Copper, and 1N of Gold. That's two coastal cities and access to all 4 resources Spice, Copper, Gold, and Cow. The 2 S of Copper city would be the legendary city.
In conclusion, considering the 4 resources available in that vicinity (Cow, Copper, Spice, and Gold), I think you should place the Copper and Cow at high priority and the Spice at low priority (obviously, since you can't get access to it until Calendar).
The 1st city should therefore try to grab both the Copper and the Cow (either 1 SW of Copper or 2 S of Copper would be great, depending on how much you value the coastline). 1 SW of Copper, in addition to coastline, gives you slightly faster growth before you build a Monument, because it's right next to the Copper.
To grab the Gold, 1 N of Gold looks really good for commerce and sea access, if you don't mind having low production. For slightly better production, you can try 1 W of Gold instead. You lose access to the sea, but you gain access to 3 hill tiles.
You can even try an all-water approach: start with 1 SW of Copper, then do 1 N of Gold. After you get Calendar, make another city right on top of the Spice. There's almost no overlap of city tiles, and all 3 cities have access to the coastline.
ratrangerm
Prince
OK, I temporarily adjusted the graphics setting so I could take a better screenshot of the northern part of the continent.
I'll work on a dotmap, but right now, I'm leaning toward 2E of the Copper for the second city.
I'll work on a dotmap, but right now, I'm leaning toward 2E of the Copper for the second city.
ratrangerm
Prince
ratrangerm
Prince
Round Three: 2425 BC to 1425 BC
The first thing I did this round was make a tech switch, as I had previously discussed.
After I got that tech, I then went for Pottery, so I could build a Granary in Athens and help its growth rate. Getting Pottery would also allow me to take more advantage of flood plains tiles at the site of my second city, which I decided should go 2E of the Copper.
Around Athens, along with doing some forest chopping, I farmed one of the Dye tiles. I did that so I could get a farm to help with growth and to take advantage of the extra commerce it would generate. I don't know if I will keep it there forever (there's still another Dye tile that could get a Plantation later) but we'll see how things go.
Now, I'll admit that one of my weaknesses as a player is timing whips for maximum hammer overflow. I ended up whipping the final few turns of a Granary in Athens and a Barracks in Sparta. I think I did all right with overflow and such.
After Pottery, I picked up Writing so I could open up the borders with Zara and Hatty. As it turns out, Zara and Hatty weren't doing much unit building... they didn't have any Archers when I first started exploring their lands! Zara was expanding... he had three cities by the time I finished the round, while Hatty built Stonehenge. Alas, somebody else founded Judaism, so that's another religion that won't be on this continent for some time.
Of course, Toku wasn't going to make such an offer to open his borders, but it's not like it matters, since he's going to be wiped out anyway. But Toku will certainly come to me with demands.
Naturally, I said no. He's now Annoyed with me, but that now I've got Copper hooked up and was starting my Phalanx army, it's not going to matter.
As I was chopping forest on the hills of Athens, I noticed that forest was growing in several spots, except one piece of Grassland in the city's BFC. I was one turn away from Iron Working and curious as to what might be in that grassland, so I moved my worker there.
On the next turn... which was the final turn of the round... I got IW, and sure enough, my hunch proved correct.
That's nice... I can now have a couple of Swordsmen to supplement my Phalanxes if I want. I stopped the round here, and here's the map of the immediate area.
I went ahead and built cottages on two of the floodplain squares around Sparta so I can have something extra on top of the food. The Copper is mined and I moved one Worker to a grassland hill with the intent of mining it. That way, I can work the two floodplains and the Copper at size three, then when it grows to size four, I can work a mined grassland hill and whip units when it's at size four. Because I will be wanting growth for whipping, I think working the Gold mine should probably wait, since it will always be the tile I lose whenever I whip, and on top of that, it won't generate any growth at size four. But if you all think differently, I'll change that gameplan.
Athens will work the Cows, the Spices in forest, the farmed Dye and the mined Iron (which Worker No. 2 will take care of), and I have my third Worker that will head to Athens to start chopping forest to help speed up unit production.
During the round, I got one of my Warriors up to the point that I could make him my Medic unit, so that will help with the upcoming invasion. I already have one Phalanx out and two more are on the way. I'm trying to time my whips so that they get the maximum potential from hammer overflow. I think six Phalanxes with two Swordsmen will work for an initial stack, and then use Swordsmen to soften up defenders while the Phalanxes finish the job. Sound good, or should I adjust the army plan?
I didn't build a Granary yet in Sparta as I figured I'd have enough growth rate there for the time being. Should I work one into the build queue with my units or wait for now?
Toku built another city, but it appears he built it in a spot that I eyed for a potential future city site. I'm torn on whether to keep it or not, if it is in the proper spot... on one hand, it would save me a Settler, but on the other hand, I may want to focus more on grabbing certain sites to the south and west of me before Zara and Hatty expand there. There's that third cottage city site I spotted, plus a potential GP Farm. I'll do a dot map of those areas later to show the spots I'm eyeing.
Thoughts on the tech path? I've got Mysticism next so I can get down the path to certain techs I'll need in preparation for a Cultural victory. Should I go another route?
The next round will be spent getting some units out to attack Toku, but I should also ask about when I should fit unit/Settler/Worker builds for future city sites. Zara, in particular, is doing a fair amount of expansion and I'd like to get that cottage city site before he does. Hatty may be less of a concern as she has strategic resources close to her, but that are away from me, so I suspect she is less likely to expand toward me as she claims the resources near her lands..
Fire away with the feedback.
The first thing I did this round was make a tech switch, as I had previously discussed.
After I got that tech, I then went for Pottery, so I could build a Granary in Athens and help its growth rate. Getting Pottery would also allow me to take more advantage of flood plains tiles at the site of my second city, which I decided should go 2E of the Copper.
Around Athens, along with doing some forest chopping, I farmed one of the Dye tiles. I did that so I could get a farm to help with growth and to take advantage of the extra commerce it would generate. I don't know if I will keep it there forever (there's still another Dye tile that could get a Plantation later) but we'll see how things go.
Now, I'll admit that one of my weaknesses as a player is timing whips for maximum hammer overflow. I ended up whipping the final few turns of a Granary in Athens and a Barracks in Sparta. I think I did all right with overflow and such.
After Pottery, I picked up Writing so I could open up the borders with Zara and Hatty. As it turns out, Zara and Hatty weren't doing much unit building... they didn't have any Archers when I first started exploring their lands! Zara was expanding... he had three cities by the time I finished the round, while Hatty built Stonehenge. Alas, somebody else founded Judaism, so that's another religion that won't be on this continent for some time.
Of course, Toku wasn't going to make such an offer to open his borders, but it's not like it matters, since he's going to be wiped out anyway. But Toku will certainly come to me with demands.
Naturally, I said no. He's now Annoyed with me, but that now I've got Copper hooked up and was starting my Phalanx army, it's not going to matter.
As I was chopping forest on the hills of Athens, I noticed that forest was growing in several spots, except one piece of Grassland in the city's BFC. I was one turn away from Iron Working and curious as to what might be in that grassland, so I moved my worker there.
On the next turn... which was the final turn of the round... I got IW, and sure enough, my hunch proved correct.
That's nice... I can now have a couple of Swordsmen to supplement my Phalanxes if I want. I stopped the round here, and here's the map of the immediate area.
I went ahead and built cottages on two of the floodplain squares around Sparta so I can have something extra on top of the food. The Copper is mined and I moved one Worker to a grassland hill with the intent of mining it. That way, I can work the two floodplains and the Copper at size three, then when it grows to size four, I can work a mined grassland hill and whip units when it's at size four. Because I will be wanting growth for whipping, I think working the Gold mine should probably wait, since it will always be the tile I lose whenever I whip, and on top of that, it won't generate any growth at size four. But if you all think differently, I'll change that gameplan.
Athens will work the Cows, the Spices in forest, the farmed Dye and the mined Iron (which Worker No. 2 will take care of), and I have my third Worker that will head to Athens to start chopping forest to help speed up unit production.
During the round, I got one of my Warriors up to the point that I could make him my Medic unit, so that will help with the upcoming invasion. I already have one Phalanx out and two more are on the way. I'm trying to time my whips so that they get the maximum potential from hammer overflow. I think six Phalanxes with two Swordsmen will work for an initial stack, and then use Swordsmen to soften up defenders while the Phalanxes finish the job. Sound good, or should I adjust the army plan?
I didn't build a Granary yet in Sparta as I figured I'd have enough growth rate there for the time being. Should I work one into the build queue with my units or wait for now?
Toku built another city, but it appears he built it in a spot that I eyed for a potential future city site. I'm torn on whether to keep it or not, if it is in the proper spot... on one hand, it would save me a Settler, but on the other hand, I may want to focus more on grabbing certain sites to the south and west of me before Zara and Hatty expand there. There's that third cottage city site I spotted, plus a potential GP Farm. I'll do a dot map of those areas later to show the spots I'm eyeing.
Thoughts on the tech path? I've got Mysticism next so I can get down the path to certain techs I'll need in preparation for a Cultural victory. Should I go another route?
The next round will be spent getting some units out to attack Toku, but I should also ask about when I should fit unit/Settler/Worker builds for future city sites. Zara, in particular, is doing a fair amount of expansion and I'd like to get that cottage city site before he does. Hatty may be less of a concern as she has strategic resources close to her, but that are away from me, so I suspect she is less likely to expand toward me as she claims the resources near her lands..
Fire away with the feedback.
URSExelcior
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 135
Only feedback I can give you is to play faster and post more rounds =)
I dont know if mysticism is a good idea... I dont know how to win with culuture...
maybe you should concetrate on:
1. Connecting the cities...
2. building an army of phalanx and swordsman and rush Tokugawa...
OR research MC then Machinery to train the Crossbowman! then make an army and rush Tokugawa...
3. Dont rush him. Settle and build up your economy and research CULTURE, CULTURE, CULTURE
!
maybe you should concetrate on:
1. Connecting the cities...
2. building an army of phalanx and swordsman and rush Tokugawa...
OR research MC then Machinery to train the Crossbowman! then make an army and rush Tokugawa...
3. Dont rush him. Settle and build up your economy and research CULTURE, CULTURE, CULTURE
!
huerfanista
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,276
I don't know if this game is still active, but I came across it a few days ago and decided to give it a whirl. (I normally play at monarch, but I was looking for an easy game 
). Cultural victory in 1916 (IIRC).
). Cultural victory in 1916 (IIRC).Spoiler :
Talk about a quick rush! 
and shrine income were a big boost for me. Similar threads
