Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[Krajzen]

Austro-Hungarians (aesthete)
British (expansionist)
French (scientific)
Germans (militaristic?)
Iranians (merchant? aesthete?)
Mexicans (agrarian?)
Russians (expansionist? agrarian?)
Siamese (builder? merchant? aesthete?)
Swedish (scientist? builder?)
Zulu (militaristic?)

1) Please God Almighty let Germans not be MILITARIST CULTURE, this brings such terrible connotations and stereotypes. Especially awkward by being done by a French studio. I really hope they are Builder.
2) Iranians are imo almost sure to be Aestethe. Persian aestethics, art, architecture and culture are very powerful, and honestly were the only thing going well for this country in 19th century
3) I am surprised they took Mexicans, as Brazilians would be more natural candidate for Agrarian. Although they could be another Aestethe.
4) Russia is probably going to be land - based more direct counterpart to British expansionist because seriously look at the size of this empire.
5) Siamese probably are going to be Aestethe, it really fits them.
6) Swedish IMO 90% is going to be scientist culture referencing Nobel and Germanic scientific contributions, with Germany being Builder.
7) Zulu are really weird, because this culture was hardly industrial, especially I have no idea how will they show their military unit in the industrial context. Idk why they went for Zulu instead of much more natural militaristic Ethiopia which actually survived this period...

 

[8housesofelixir]

7) Zulu are really weird, because this culture was hardly industrial, especially I have no idea how will they show their military unit in the industrial context. Idk why they went for Zulu instead of much more natural militaristic Ethiopia which actually survived this period...

IMHO it is mainly because they shown up on the world stage during the industrial era, and they were famous for beating up Britain, a more dominant player than Italy.

In the game, Britain is also a culture in this era, thus making them actually facing each other possible.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The problem with trying to represent the Zulus is that while temporily they were late Industrial, technologically they were Classical and IRL their war with Britain lasted less than two years and ended with the annihilation of the Zulu Army at Ulundi Kraal: no matter how dramatic Isandlhwana or Rorke's Drift might be in the movies, in reality spears against gatling guns and breechloading rifles is not a fair fight on any normal battlefield. It makes it very tough to include them in a 4X historical game, and especially with Humankind's mechanics where they are going to go up directly against Industrial opponents without, realistically, any of the Industrial advantages themselves.

As for the Germans, militaristic would be too much of a cliche that needs to be stuffed back into the closet and the closet nailed shut. 19th and 20th century Germany with the Technical Hochschulen , industry-enhancing Vereinen, and even the proliferation of Spas (Bad -Everything), Wine Festivals, vacation trips (domestic railroads to every corner of Germany), casinos, opera, music, and theatrical halls, could be, respectively, Scientific, Builder, or Aesthete with equal facility. Let's retire the spiked helmet and goosestep for a while, at least.

 

[Narcisse]

I don't know ... speaking about "stereotypal Germans", just because they will eventually be militarist in Humankind seems exaggerated for me. I mean, it's like Aesthete, iirc, it's a word which is connoted in some bad meanings ( in french ) for exemple.
There is no "reductive" or "rewarding" affinity. Apparently, from the little informations we get, militarist is just about being good in battle, to get the era stars related. It's okay for industrial Germans.
Fantasize all cultures as peaceful aesthete seems stereotipical too.
And unfun... Austro-Hungarians already get this trope.

It is expected than Germans will get the most technologically advanced Emblematic Unit of the era : the U-Boat (which show their skills in science and engineering) and a Rurh Complex / Zelche Zolverein Complex as EQ.
For me, their representation are really nice and complete whatever the affinity they will get.

For Zulu, I suppose they will simply work like Aztec and Japanese.

 

[Elhoim]

Yeah, affinities tend to stereotype the culture a bit, but the Legacy Trait and Emblematic quarters flesh out the culture as much as the affinity, and maybe even more.

 

[mitsho]

The culture of course encompasses more than their affinity. The legacy trait and the emblematics can steer the culture to quite a complex illustration.

And while I of course agree, Germany as the "Land der Dichter und Denker", of Precision Engineering and of lots of local differences in the big country ... it just is not wrong to depict them (or the Prussian spirit) as militaristic. It's like with the British - we discussed on how they could be scientist, merchant and so on, but in the end, the colonial expansionist just does fit. They are more than that, but the affinity isn't wrong. And that's the same with the Germans. While it may be cliché, it just works as well.

And we do have the Aesthete Austro-Hungarians on their side, so ... I can really live with militarist. There's always expansions.

 

[Narcisse]

By the way, an industrial european Builder looks really interesting, because the era of industrial revolution.
But to be honest, I expected French or British being Builder, looks akward for me to give it to Germans "by elimination".
I mean, again, we don't know what exactly is Builder. But how I interpret it, I think it's not only tied to production but maybe about wonders. (some sort of passive, as Scientist one : they are able to access to the tech of the next era). It's why I didn't considered the Builder for Germans.
I'm maybe wrong ! We really need a Feature Focus video to show how work these damn affinities

I bet on Siamese or Iranian being Builder. Germans maybe scientist, it's the era of innovations, engineering, vehicules, etc ... could be cool to have more scientist.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

7) Zulu are really weird, because this culture was hardly industrial, especially I have no idea how will they show their military unit in the industrial context. Idk why they went for Zulu instead of much more natural militaristic Ethiopia which actually survived this period...

Zulu don't quite fit the Industrial era in a design sense, but chronologically it's the only era to put them in.

I'm sure Ethiopia will show up in the game and be the contemporary African culture.

 

[CivLuvah]

Iranians are imo almost sure to be Aestethe. Persian aestethics, art, architecture and culture are very powerful, and honestly were the only thing going well for this country in 19th century

I do like to see an Iranian civilization not based on Achamaenid Persia.

 

[notNamed]

The problem with trying to represent the Zulus is that while temporily they were late Industrial, technologically they were Classical and IRL their war with Britain lasted less than two years and ended with the annihilation of the Zulu Army at Ulundi Kraal: no matter how dramatic Isandlhwana or Rorke's Drift might be in the movies, in reality spears against gatling guns and breechloading rifles is not a fair fight on any normal battlefield. It makes it very tough to include them in a 4X historical game, and especially with Humankind's mechanics where they are going to go up directly against Industrial opponents without, realistically, any of the Industrial advantages themselves.

Humankind picks cultures based on their timeframe, not their "tech level".
Just as Hodinoshoni get all sorts of stuff they couldn't even dream of IRL and wouldn't last a second neighboring an actual built up "civilised" society like Spain or China, as they will in the game. The American Indians in the game get generic units of chariots, cavalry, swordsmen, siege engines, ships because everyone else does as well. If they get in, the Zulu cities will look Zulu but they will give the same amount of FIDSI as any British or French industrial park (again, as will longhouses of the hodinoshoni match 1:1 in output with Ottoman metropolises). Likewise for the units, if there are generic howitzers, they will get them, generic line infantry the same, ships of the line, etc. Only 1 unit and 1 unit only can be missing because of it being replaced by the Emblematic one.

The flavour of being a small African empire taking on industrial juggernauts will come from the fact all of your stuff looks African and the weirdness of the EU/EQ/Legacy trait. Like the Aztecs get both Longswordsmen and Jaguar Warriors. But the former neerds a tech to be researched first and several iron deposits in your possession. Jaguar Warriors will be cheaper, available without research and special resources. But if you have all that, you will be able to train Longswords and Knights just as anyone else and the Aztec flavour will simply retain in the looks of those knights/longswords, the LT (cheaper units until the end of the game) and EQ (where you get to sacrifice people for stability, IIRC?)... so a bit more like Civ where you're presented with a what-if of Aztecs developing somewhere in the Mediterranean, effectively.

 

[ehecatzin]

3) I am surprised they took Mexicans, as Brazilians would be more natural candidate for Agrarian. Although they could be another Aestethe.

I mean Brazil is most likely going to get the Contemporary latin american spot, I'd be very surprised if they didn't, but Mexico during this time frame does fit Agrarian very well.

Also everybody keeps throwing the Zulu around...are they leaked or confirmed? I have a hard time seeing them in industrial when Ethiopia fits that spot perfectly.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Also everybody keeps throwing the Zulu around...are they leaked or confirmed? I have a hard time seeing them in industrial when Ethiopia fits that spot perfectly.

Well they already passed up Ethiopia alphabetically unless they are saving it until the end.

Ethiopia is still a good candidate to show up in the Contemporary as this is the only era where the Zulu have the chance to show up.

 

[notNamed]

Also everybody keeps throwing the Zulu around...are they leaked or confirmed? I have a hard time seeing them in industrial when Ethiopia fits that spot perfectly.

The dev videos had the tech tree which contained a unit unrelated to the rest of the tech tree with a Zulu tricolor flag on it. The group of Industrial era avatars contained one clothed in what looks like strongly Zulu clothes with the signature decorations on the shins and arms. So at the very least, they are very likely. But there's no assurance until we get to the end of Industrial and actually see them.

 

[Narcisse]

Also everybody keeps throwing the Zulu around...are they leaked or confirmed? I have a hard time seeing them in industrial when Ethiopia fits that spot perfectly.

This expectation come only from :
An artwork with industrial outfits with one which could fit with Zulu.
A flag in the blurry tech tree which could look like the Zulu conjectural flag.
And the trope of Humankind of giving some duality. (Brits X Zulu).
Edit : I forgot, and an "horde" unit in the industrial era blurry tech tree, so working similarly to the Mongols and Huns ones. Impi could fit the job.

It's a light expectation tbh, we suggested Ethiopia and Dahomey too, instead of Zulu, on the discord, but with the reveal of French ...

For how it will look like, if Zulu are really revealed. Something similar to the Aztecs.
Aztecs have a direct access to the jaguar warrior, which is not a replacement, it is cheaper because don't need iron. But it don't stop Aztecs to have later heavy cavalry, greatswordmen and trebuchet as every other medieval cultures when they get the tech.

 

[ehecatzin]

Well they already past up Ethiopia alphabetically unless they are saving it until the end.

Ethiopia is still a good candidate to show up in the Contemporary as this is the only era where the Zulu have the chance to show up.

Wouldn't be the first time a culture was skipped, tho I see your point is safer to assume they are out of industrial, it would be a shame to be they are a great candidate to trascend into contemporary and bump heads with the rest of the European powers. (Italy)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Wouldn't be the first time a culture was skipped, tho I see your point is safer to assume they are out of industrial, it would be a shame to be they are a great candidate to trascend into contemporary and bump heads with the rest of the European powers. (Italy)

The only other contemporary African cultures I could see would be either Nigeria or South Africa. So in that instance I think Ethiopia should get that spot.

Plus the Zulus are the go to culture for Africa in these types of games especially when they can fight against the Dutch and the British.

 

[Narcisse]

ideally, before we get a lot more informations (like the openDev outro), my wishlist for industrial was not as big than medieval or early modern for exemple. And contained Ethiopians, Zulu, Italians, Argentinians, Meiji Japanese, Belgian, Austria (which is finally in, when I didn't expect them at launch).

So I'm happy to get the Zulu. Ideally, I would love to have both Ethiopia and Zulu, to compensate Early Modern Era which don't have any african cultures. Still, we will maybe get a surprise.
A delayed culture ? the Zulu/Mexican ones are not 100% sure (in term of identification I mean). Swedes are maybe not in industrial, even if IMO I expect them being industrial.

And btw, Ethiopian is surely one of my first pick for an industrial dlc.

The only other contemporary African cultures I could see would be either Nigeria or South Africa. So in that instance I think Ethiopia should get that spot.

I expect Nigeria, Kenya or Botswana for modern era.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

And btw, Ethiopian is surely one of my first pick for an industrial dlc.

I expect Nigeria, Kenya or Botswana for modern era.

Considering we already got the Aksumites earlier I would be surprised if they skipped out on modern Ethiopia for the base game.

 

[Narcisse]

yes, even possibly totally skipped of the game because Aksum

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

yes, even possibly totally skipped of the game because Aksum

Well I was looking at it more from the idea of since Aksum is already in the game people might want to roleplay and transcend into Ethiopia. It's similar to how you can do that with English into the British, Franks into the French etc.