Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[grug]

My guesses for remaining industrial era cultures are:
Mexico, agrarian, with LT about hacienda system and EQ as something to generate faith.

Russia, expansionist, with LT about kreposts and expanding into Siberia, EU as cossacks and EQ as whatever this church is.

Siam, merchant, with LT about modernization and EQ as floating market.

Qajar, builder, with LT about art and architecture and EQ as some kind of bazar.

And Zulu, militarist, with LT about Shaka and EU as an ibutho built for cheap and without any prerequisite technology.
Then throw Sweden to contemporary era as a scientist.

 

[Narcisse]

please it's not a bazaar I already explained the whole thing.

Seems to be legit expectations.

 

[Krajzen]

Zulu instead of Ethiopia is a crime, and I am really weirded out by 6 cultures of 10 being European, especially Italy and Germany not being in the modern era.
Otherwise it's quite a fun setup.

For some reason I have always assumed that "industrial era" is "literally from the very earliest industrial revolution, since half of 18th century". It was a strange assumption, especially seeing how the previous era is not "renaissance" but EARLY MODERN era which is a term used all the way until either 1789 or 1815 (Europa Universalis IV, Early Modern Period: the Game, ends in 1821).
It definitely makes more sense to put Napoleonic Wars (late gun, late cannon, cavalry) in the same period as Italian Wars (early gun, early cannon, cavalry) rather than forcing late 18th century armies to be in the same period as WWI.

I guess Early Modern era is more like 1453/92 - 1815, Industrial is 1815 - 1920s, and Modern is 1920 - 2020.
The former gets British Empire, Austro - Hungary and Russia.
The latter gets for example
Merchant America, Militarist Japan, Expansionist Soviets, Builder China, Agrarian India, Merchant Korea, Agrarian Brazil, Aestethe Nigeria, Scientist Sweden and Aestethe Turkey.

It's not perfect, for example Soviets can't fight Germans, but oh well. We get modern world, Cold War, and a little taste of ww2.

Honestly, I still think that the Industrial era should feature Militarist Prussians, and modern era - Scientist/Builder Germans, this way we could sort of have both ww1 and ww2 without the awkwardness of making German culture "militarist"

 

[Elhoim]

's not perfect, for example Soviets can't fight Germans

Yes, they can, since players do not advance eras at the same time. So if a player gets soviets early, he can fight cultures from a previous era.

forcing late 18th century armies to be in the same period as WWI

The "era" doesn't matter much, what's more important is how tech flows. One would be at the beginning of the era (or maybe even at the end of the one previously), while the other would be at the end of the era in the tech tree. Eras are just some cut-off points, but they are not "mixing" them and appearing at the same time in the tech tree.

 

[Narcisse]

I just share some of my new bets for next week : Kadjar (yeah no, looks weird with this naming), Meiji with a ship EU, Mexico, or Nepalese. Merina ?

Even Morroco ... if the Caravanserail is a Funduq ... But the City Center and hats of units maybe don't fit

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Zulu instead of Ethiopia is a crime, and I am really weirded out by 6 cultures of 10 being European, especially Italy and Germany not being in the modern era.
Otherwise it's quite a fun setup.

I still think Ethiopia will come in the Contemporary Era over Nigeria or any other African nations.

 

[ZarduStar]

My guesses for remaining industrial era cultures are:
Mexico, agrarian, with LT about hacienda system and EQ as something to generate faith.
View attachment 571894
Russia, expansionist, with LT about kreposts and expanding into Siberia, EU as cossacks and EQ as whatever this church is.
View attachment 571895
Siam, merchant, with LT about modernization and EQ as floating market.
View attachment 571896
Qajar, builder, with LT about art and architecture and EQ as some kind of bazar.
View attachment 571897
And Zulu, militarist, with LT about Shaka and EU as an ibutho built for cheap and without any prerequisite technology.
Then throw Sweden to contemporary era as a scientist.

I love everything you just said. Sweden and Ethiopia for Contemporary also sound good.

 

[Krajzen]

I still think Ethiopia will come in the Contemporary Era over Nigeria or any other African nations.

Yeah, that is very probable. Though personally I'd still make them industrial. In the modern era you could also put Kenya, Nigeria, Ghana or South Africa, while in the industrial era Ethiopia is the only possibility next to Zulu (sigh) and maybe Ashanti.

19th century Ethiopia was a triumph of Africans over colonialism, a battle od Adua, and a period of expansion and consolidation for Ethiopia (you could even make them expansionist or militarist). Meanwhile Ethiopia since ww2 is "a long march of disasters, ending with being literally the least developed country by year 2000*, even today having like 20th lowest HDI in the world". Also the only legit affinity for them in the modern era is agrarian (somewhat ironic considering this is the last country which suffered massive loss of life from famine).

At least it is very quickly developing since like 2000...

* - next to Mozambique, which also had a Communist Regime and 20 year long civil war

 

[mitsho]

Yeah, that is very probable. Though personally I'd still make them industrial. In the modern era you could also put Kenya, Nigeria, Ghana or South Africa, while in the industrial era Ethiopia is the only possibility next to Zulu (sigh) and maybe Ashanti.

Liberia? Sansibar? Madagascar? And for sure Ashanti. (also, we don't count potential cultures such as the Boers or Morocco here as African ).

After all, these cultures don't necessarily have to be the most famous or successful ones, but they should for certain be emblematic of the history of their region. Alternate History is a primary motivator for games like this as well, so we don't have to have only the winners included and can also have cultures that "lost" (i.e. Sansibar).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah, that is very probable. Though personally I'd still make them industrial. In the modern era you could also put Kenya, Nigeria, Ghana or South Africa, while in the industrial era Ethiopia is the only possibility next to Zulu (sigh) and maybe Ashanti.

19th century Ethiopia was a triumph of Africans over colonialism, a battle od Adua, and a period of expansion and consolidation for Ethiopia (you could even make them expansionist or militarist). Meanwhile Ethiopia since ww2 is "a long march of disasters, ending with being literally the least developed country by year 2000*, even today having like 20th lowest HDI in the world". Also the only legit affinity for them in the modern era is agrarian (somewhat ironic considering this is the last country which suffered massive loss of life from famine).

I agree that it might be a better fit for the Industrial Era as well, though if they aren't going to be there I think Contemporary would work too, considering I don't think they would choose to not put them in the base game.
I could see the reasoning is to base it off of Halie Selassie's long reign plus the irony of them being more technological advanced than the Italians, when it comes to an EU.

I don't think Ghana will happen though since we already have the Ghanaians in Medieval.

 

[Siptah]

Algeria would make a nice modern African culture, especially when it comes to ideologies and influencing other cultures. Not that it would be a clear #1 option for that.

 

[Xandinho]

Yeah, that is very probable. Though personally I'd still make them industrial. In the modern era you could also put Kenya, Nigeria, Ghana or South Africa, while in the industrial era Ethiopia is the only possibility next to Zulu (sigh) and maybe Ashanti.

Wouldn't Madagascar/Merina also make sense as an industrial African culture? And also Benin?

I think that Ethiopia will be in the contemporary and may get Aesthete because of the Rastafari.

 

[Narcisse]

Benin was suggested on discord, because we spotted blurry units whick look like african units and to be women : Dahomey Amazons (really blurry, so really unsure). But we passed the Benin / Dahomey in alphebetical order; so seems unlikely.
Merina why not, I suggested it, but I believe more in Meiji.

yeah, I'm for Ethiopia in industrial, but they have high chance to be in contemporary, for the lineage with aksum.

I don't think Ghana will happen though since we already have the Ghanaians in Medieval

yeah, there is no chance for Ghana with this naming in medieval

 

[Krajzen]

yeah, there is no chance for Ghana with this naming in medieval

That's one of reasons I dislike Ghana in the medieval era instead of much better known Mali

 

[Narcisse]

Personally, I like it. Wagadu Empire is underepresented when, Mali is always requested, I'm already tired of Mali. I just want Early Modern Songhai in DLC to go from Medieval Ghana.

For me it make perfect sense to highlight Ghana Empire which covered the 9th to 13th century of this geographical zone instead of medieval Mali.
They have the same focus than would have Mali, a similar architecture. Devellop the late medieval technologies in Humankind with Ghana, and in some way, you get the same archetype than medieval Mali.

My point was than Ghana naming is confusing with modern Ghana. The two cultures are not even directly related, and it's not the same geographical area. Wagadu was maybe a more "obscure" naming for the audience, but more correct imo to avoid this confusion. Having a less known culture, or less "important" are nice for me, even more if the two cultures are directly related and have the same archetypes, to simply get something refreshing and different from civ. (like having Argentinians and Mexicans instead of Colombians (GC))

 

[8housesofelixir]

Personally, I like it. Wagadu Empire is underepresented when, Mali is always requested, I'm already tired of Mali. I just want Early Modern Songhai in DLC to go from Medieval Ghana.
For me it make perfect sense to highlight Ghana Empire which covered the 9th to 13th century of this geographical zone instead of medieval Mali.
They have the same focus than would have Mali, a similar architecture. Devellop the late medieval technologies in Humankind with Ghana, and in some way, you get the same archetype than medieval Mali.
My point was than Ghana naming is confusing with modern Ghana. The two cultures are not even directly related, and it's not the same geographical area. Wagadu was maybe a more "obscure" naming for the audience, but more correct imo to avoid this confusion. Having a less known culture, or less "important" are nice for me, even more if the two cultures are directly related and have the same archetypes, to simply get something refreshing and different from civ. (like having Argentinians and Mexicans instead of Colombians (GC))

I assume the devs choose this name because they want a easily recognizable name that isn't just "Mali" or "Songhai".

A similar case happened in Japan's naming: Many players probably cannot tell what is "Edo" (in Japanese you can just use "Edo" to describe this era) compare to "Ming" and "Joseon", but "Edo Japanese" is unmistakable.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For me it make perfect sense to highlight Ghana Empire which covered the 9th to 13th century of this geographical zone instead of medieval Mali.
They have the same focus than would have Mali, a similar architecture. Devellop the late medieval technologies in Humankind with Ghana, and in some way, you get the same archetype than medieval Mali.

I think the problem with them is they had to resort to fabricating elements of the emblematic unit and quarter considering we don't know a lot about them. The end result was a camel unit with a French name and an emblematic quarter that looks like the Sankore Madrasah, which was built after the Ghana Empire.

I assume the devs choose this name because they want a easily recognizable name that isn't just "Mali" or "Songhai".

A similar case happened in Japan's naming: Many players probably cannot tell what is "Edo" (in Japanese you can just use "Edo" to describe this era) compare to "Ming" and "Joseon", but "Edo Japanese" is unmistakable.

Edo is also another name for the Kingdom of Benin, located in present-day Nigeria, that would also be a good Early Modern culture for Africa.

That being said it's clear that they are going to do another era of Japan, because if not they would have just named them Japanese. I think the same goes for Korea too.

 

[Xandinho]

Is there any chance that Japan will be in the industrial era?

I know that obviously China will be in the contemporary era and maybe Korea as well, I find it difficult to have three far east cultures in the contemporary era and none in the industrial era. So, although Japan fits perferctly in the contemporary era, it's the best candidate among the three for the industrial era.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Is there any chance that Japan will be in the industrial age?

I found an Industrial Japan very unlikely when there is an Industrial Siam, since they both share the same "traditional culture modernized" theme.

On the other hand, if we follow the Japanese periodization naming convention, after Edo Japan there will be Meiji Japan (Industrial), Taisho Japan (probably still Industrial), and Showa Japan. Showa Japan is obviously a Contemporary culture, but "Showa" can generate some controversy since it is the period that covers the WWII Japan.

Therefore if the devs don't mind the name of "Showa" I think they will put Japan as Contemporary (or just call it "Modern Japan"?); if they do mind, Japan will probably end up in Industrial.

 

[Narcisse]

I think the problem with them is they had to resort to fabricating elements of the emblematic unit and quarter considering we don't know a lot about them. The end result was a camel unit with a French name and an emblematic quarter that looks like the Sankore Madrasah, which was built after the Ghana Empire.

Actually, no, you revealed something more bizarre Alexander... I remember than the reference of the EQ was a mosque. And I found it back ... It's the Larabanga Mosque, which is exactly the same, but ... is famous to be the most ancient mosque in actual Ghana.

I really like the idea to have Ghana instead of Mali for the reasons I give earlier (even if now, I would have prefered to have something singularly different. Kanem ? )
But I must admit than I really don't like this confusion between ancient Ghana and modern Ghana geographical zone.

I assume the devs choose this name because they want a easily recognizable name that isn't just "Mali" or "Songhai".

Actually, it was one of the main reason why I liked the idea of Ghana, is than it give more chances to Songhai to appear later in the game, than if we got medieval Mali imho. And so having a nice lineage through two different archetypes : going from medieval Wagadu (9th-13th) to early modern Songhai (15th-16th) instead of Mali (13th-16th) which could cover the both era (medieval and trenscend)

But yes, it's my damn problem with Mali, they are so iconic and there is so much remains, it is way easier to take a cool emblematic unit and quarter. We can't deal with some behemots of history.

Is there any chance that Japan will be in the industrial era?

Maybe. But if Meiji Japanese are part of industrial reveal, it means than there is probably no Zulu / or any african culture in industrial ? (Or the Islamic Persian architecture screenshot is about an islamic african culture instead ?)