Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[migck]

The new feature of Mongols not suffering from razing instability is causing a python exception on every city raze. In Stability.py, line 75:

if utils.getHumanID() == iPlayer and iPlayer != con.iMongols:

the actual conts variable is iMongolia, so it should be

if utils.getHumanID() == iPlayer and iPlayer != con.iMongolia:

I do like the idea of this being the Mongol UP, and kheshiks being the one unit type that can throw cities into panic. Another suggestion could be keeping their UP as it is, but restricting the razing inst. immunity to the historical period of the horde invasions (Middle Ages/early Renaissance? Until Military Tradition, since kheshiks would then upgrade to cuirassiers?)

 

[omnislip]

A couple of things:

The razing changes may have had some unintended consequences - city razing throws an error message for me (sorry, I didn't note it down) but there isn't any stability loss when I'm playing France.

Also, how does the Statue of Liberty work? I've got Democracy but am not able to build it anywhere. Is there another hidden dependency not in the civilopedia?

Both issues are found in this save on my Dropbox: here. (particularly the SoL one, which should be buildable on this turn.)

Thanks for all the work on the mod!

 

[cudfather]

Considering SoL, the city needs to be coastal and I think you only need Republic.

 

[NKN]

And you need a forge.

 

[migck]

I feel like I'm being obnoxious, but... I might as well try to report as many problems as I can before I burn out of this. I have tendencies.

A Congress' city reassignments failed to execute due to a python exception, at Congresses.py line 563, there's

iThreshold = tPatienceThreshold[iBelligerent] + 5 * self.dPossibleBelligerents[iBelligerents] + iGlobalWarModifier

it should be iBelligerent, no plural, unless I'm missing something

iThreshold = tPatienceThreshold[iBelligerent] + 5 * self.dPossibleBelligerents[iBelligerent] + iGlobalWarModifier

Actually a good many Congresses in my games end up failing to execute due to python exceptions, usually when I use the options to attempt bribes or spionage in them. Shame I didn't try to note down the python exceptions of them more often, and congresses are too sporadic for me to test systematically.

A tiny one, the name for the German great scientist Carl Friedrich Gauss appears as 'Carl Friedrich Gauß" (had to look an ASCII key table to figure how to write it).
I thought the names of the GP would be in the text XML files and figured I could check it, but I can't find them anywhere.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks for the reports, there's a ton of stuff already again that I need to catch up on even disregarding the overflow bug. And yes, details on other Python exceptions during congresses would be appreciated.

And you need a forge.

Maybe that condition should be removed now. And I'm pretty sure the civic requirement is displayed in the civilopedia, not sure about the wonder tooltip.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

And I'm pretty sure the civic requirement is displayed in the civilopedia, not sure about the wonder tooltip.

This is incorrect. Nowhere in-game is it noted that the SoL can only be built by Republics. The only listed requirements are Democracy tech, access to the coast, and a Forge.

 

[Daedwartin]

Maybe that condition should be removed now. And I'm pretty sure the civic requirement is displayed in the civilopedia, not sure about the wonder tooltip.

Actually, it should stay.

After all, how is your city going to make all that steel that is needed. Remember: those massive structures ade of metal? all of them required cheap steel. And you need somewhere to make it.

The forge in later eras doesnt represent the same thing it did in the beginning. It represents the production of refined metal, instead of both that and the places you made armor and weapons. Hence why it is required. In fact, it probably should be required for a much larger selection of everything, that require refined metal on a large scale.

 

[Leoreth]

I agree on that, I just don't want to associate too many conditions with a wonder because it makes it harder for the AI to build.

 

[omnislip]

This is incorrect. Nowhere in-game is it noted that the SoL can only be built by Republics. The only listed requirements are Democracy tech, access to the coast, and a Forge.

Indeed, this is not mentioned! A simple fix, but frustrating if you're playing and can't understand the issue.

 

[Leoreth]

I'll do something about that, sorry. I was fairly sure civic requirements are displayed at least in the civilopedia.

 

[citis]

I'll do something about that, sorry. I was fairly sure civic requirements are displayed at least in the civilopedia.

It is displayed when you try to choose the wonder in the production queue.

 

[Geberel85]

Hi everybody, thanks to all the developer of the mod and contributors.
I have been playing the various rfc mods for years, but I joined the forum only today.

FEEDBACK 1 - Stability and tech penalty

I really like the idea behind the new stability system and the new tech cost modifier. When I play ordinary rfc or my beloved RAND, military expansion is really weird: I have to raze half of the cities and concentrate on few iper-mega-metropolis, all the time. The new rfc-doc system allows different gameplay style: Thumb up

FEEDBACK 2 - Balance: Persia

I have tried many different games (10+) with Persia... (Monarch) It was my favorite Civ in RFC but in DOC-SVN I can't win... I think the UHV is impossible:

your starting army (which, in regular RFC, allows the player to conquer the whole MiddleEast, or the whole of India -or both if the player is good) is not strong enough:

after the flip, Babylon has 2 to 4 cities left (always with aharittu defender, and often with axes and walls too).
Only once I managed to defeat babylon (by pure luck), all the other times I only took their capital (well, sometimes not even that), but not the northern city, on a hill (on copper or just 1W copper) thus preventing me from building anything but archer until iron.

I tried the India-first strategy, too: At best, I take them a city, losing most of my army. By the time Persia spawn, India has swords and axes that crush my mixed chariot-immortal army.

Then, some turns later, usually while I'm still at war with Babylon, the Greek conquerors arrive and it is Game Over.

While all this happen, u have a constant barbarian horse archer threath coming from northern afghanistan to your capital.

Unlike regular RFC, I never, ever managed to build the historic Persian Empire (which, in real history, was the most significant power of the Middle East, Central Asia and Northern Africa for centuries, almost conquering Greece).

And I am a human player: the IA controlled Persian always fail to become anything except a bunch of independent cities. AI Persia in RFC DOC SVN do worse than Korea, Ethiopia and Congo

I think there is a serious historic problem here (well, and balance too)

PS: I'm not a native english speaker, sorry

 

[ezzlar]

Wasnt the metal parts of the Statue of Liberty gifted by France? Making forge requirement obsolete?

 

[Leoreth]

I agree about Persia. I'll do some stuff to address this, but In also have some long term plans to change their UU which might also help.

 

[migck]

I loaded a savegame from prior to the latest Argentina change, in which I was playing as Russia. Every new turn I'm getting this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "BugEventManager", line 400, in _handleDefaultEvent
  File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 672, in onBeginPlayerTurn
  File "Victory", line 2406, in checkPlayerTurn
  File "StoredData", line 305, in getArgentineGoldenAgeTurns
KeyError: 'iArgentineGoldenAgeTurns'

Not sure what's going on there.

Also about Russia, their UHV display is problematic. The first one is to settle 7 cities in Siberia by 1700 and have a railway line from Moscow to a Siberian city with a harbor in 1920. The display does not keep the count of how many cities in Siberia you've settled, it always appears as 0/7. Once you get 7, the goal is checked as completed, despite the lack of a railway line, but for that play session only. After loading the savegame with it completed, it will appear as uncompleted again, with 0/7 cities in Siberia and red crossmarks for both goals, even if the railway line has been made. I don't know if by 1920 the second part will appear as completed, or if that first goal can be completed satisfactorily at all.

 

[citis]

Not true. Southern Song Dynasty stood against them for 45 years, that is, well, 5 turns.
But hey, Chinese revolted and respawned after only 8 turns, and Mongols were repelled back to their core.

You have to capture a city before razing it. Mongols couldn't capture Song Dynasty. Moreover Chinese revolted due to mongol expansion.

 

[morff]

I can confirm the problems with the Russian civilization.

I have also tried the Persians, and it seems to me it's pretty much doable. I tried only on viceroy, but still on second try i won historical victory. I'm not saying i wasn't lucky, but it's possible. Mostly the success depends on how weak is the Babylonia and Egypt. You will have great losses, but you have fairly good production cities, so you basically just build one unit after another (maybe one or two settlers, but basically no buildings). With few immortals and axemen you can easily repel the Greeks and Romans. You will get the wonders from the others, and great prophet(s) from Yerusalem if needed.

For example i find Roman UHV pretty much harder than this

 

[Hojsimpson]

#MADRID
Mayra if controlled by Arabs. Matrit if controlled by Moors.

Do you know arabic language?
I was told that mozarabs (christians in muslim territory) call it Matrit. And that the arab name was Magerit.
Anyway, this maps seems good:
http://i.imgur.com/RiQVfR8.jpg

 

[Daedwartin]

Wasnt the metal parts of the Statue of Liberty gifted by France? Making forge requirement obsolete?

Actually, the French made every piece, the US just put the pieces together.

But we cant reliably simulate that, because there's no guarantee that that was how it was made in universe. In fact, i guarantee the chances of the historical means are pretty much zero. Even if you go with 1700 start. It is simply too prone to quick changes in result. Most important of which is often the really quick tech speed late game.

Also, it doesnt change the fact you need to make the parts anyways.