1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Current (SVN) development discussion thread

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,618
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Because I really think a lot of maps still need to be changed for historical accuracy and if some civs get a lot of bonus stuff (Germany, Rome, Japan), the same reasons that apply to them (immigration, hypothetical colonization, etc.) should apply to everyone else that it concerns (India, Arabia, China, etc.).

    As I understand it, this is the stability breakdown:

    Dark Green: Core area; you flip cities in this region when you spawn and when you respawn
    Light Green: Historical area; places that have a reduced penalty to settle on
    Yellow: Contested area; no real penalty for settling, but is in another civ's core.
    Orange: Foreign area; neutral
    Red: Another civ's core; larger penalty

    For instance in the Japanese stability map, we are to assume that they have West Coast stability because of a hypothetical colonization, which makes more sense with China regarding the treasure ships. But if we were to say that they have stability there to represent immigration, that'd be okay, except Vancouver is really improper considering that there's a more sizable and visible Japanese-American presence in Hawaii & California, as well as Brazil (home to the largest Japanese population outside of Japan) and Peru. So I'm actually arguing for a bigger, more accurate Japanese map. And again, it brings up what other people have brought up before, why doesn't China get (light green) in the region (Western United States) as well? Considering both immigration AND hypotheticals. Speaking of hypotheticals, Carthage with some Italian yellow would really work.

    The immigration thing, is permanently fixated mostly because I believe someone brought up before that the German & Roman yellow and light green in North America are supposed to represent German & Italian immigrants respectively. It just seems kind of unfair then, that hey, why shouldn't Indian Americans be represented either? New York and Los Angeles have huge Indian American populations.

    I believe someone mentioned before that what constitutes stability in one region for one civ is also based on whether they founded a city there or not, and etc.
    This, I think is especially true of cities like Singapore, which is pretty British but if you look at it today, is pretty overwhelmingly Chinese, Malay & Indian in culture; despite inheriting British legal procedures. Again, this is in direct contradiction with the above immigration thing, cause then, why do Germans & Italians get a break and others don't?

    This has already been somewhat remedied in DoC, but in vanilla RFC, Mongolia flips all of Northern China excluding Beijing, but including all of Manchuria. This is grossly inaccurate. The Jurchen Jin Dynasty fought the fiercest against the Mongol invaders and did not "join" them voluntarily. Other instances I can think of with gross flips, is when France spawns, they can accidentally flip some Spanish units on the border because as Leoreth said, the zones are "necessarily rectangles".

    Anyways, I was just hoping, like many others, since Rhye revealed the stability maps for the first time, that they could be changed to be more accurate.
    If you look back in a lot of threads regarding stability, there's always people clamoring at the inaccuracies in the maps.
    I was sort of hoping you'd step up and change them (while I realize it's a lot of work).

    TL;DR: Rhye's stability map is gross.

    EDIT: This was in response to Thor Macklin.
     
  2. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,380
    Location:
    Paris
    Ohhh, no more fun situations like the Roman player being exiled as Maya in 500AD for having lost Italy to the Barbarians ? I can't remember the amount of turns I had to take Rome back, but I do remember that it meant taking it way before 1492...
     
  3. Thor Macklin

    Thor Macklin Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    The state of Denial
    Then in that case perhaps I should make it so the benefits only apply to cathedrals?

    (the muslim mosque will be HEAVILY downgraded for this BTW)

    @Tomorrows Dawn. I'm with you on this actually. But my apologies for my lack of ability to help. As much as I'd like to I don't know if I have the proper programs to make said changes.
     
  4. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,113
    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah, that does sound pretty dumb. Good thing it's removed, then.
     
  5. Mr_Hobo

    Mr_Hobo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Spain's "No Protestant" UHV is automatically checked all the time, and their Trading Company doesn't give the Manilla settler
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,681
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Doesn't it get unchecked when Protestantism gets founded and one civ converts?

    And I'd be grateful for a save before the trading company is supposed to trigger.
     
  7. Mr_Hobo

    Mr_Hobo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Sorry for not specifying, but no it doesn't. It never goes unchecked. I'll letcha know in a minute if it still gives the victory. Also, I don't have a save right now of the Trading Company but I'll getcha one.

    EDIT: Yeah, it still gives you the UHV. I just won while Protestant.
     
  8. Mr_Hobo

    Mr_Hobo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Here's the save. I WB'd myself the Company this time, but with the same result.

    EDIT: Oh, and the gold and silver goal doesn't trigger if the player imports these from vassals, but it does if the vassal controls them alone. Probably because you subtracted the import value, I dunno of an alternative.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Hamir

    Hamir Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    London, England
    I think there's a small error with the current SVN.

    The hospitable bit of Sri Lanka (bottom of the two tiles) doesn't count as Asia (though the top one does).

    So I built a City there but it hasn't counted to my UHV targets (as England).
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,681
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    I'm still using the areas Rhye defined. Will correct that.
     
  11. OnlySigurd

    OnlySigurd Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    The Belly Button of the Bible Belt
    To echo what was mentioned not long ago...France's second UHV is a very, very tall order. For example:

    Spoiler :


    Now I'd say that's a decent chunk of Europe and North America, especially considering that England is my Vassal. But looking at my victory req's (which I can't seem to Print Screen for some reason), I see that I'm at 29.6% of Europe and 35.91 of N. America.

    Now I'm no expert on French/Napoleonic history, but the sheer amount of Europe that must be covered to satisfy Napoleon's ambition seems like quite a bit. Now don't get me wrong...I really, really like this aspect of the French UHV, switching gears and all that keeps a UHV from getting boring :) But on the other hand, playing this one started to feel tedious after awhile. Add in feeling like I really have to take/settle several cities I really don't like (Looking at you, anything in New Mexico) just to fill out my land area, plus every few turns paranoid about America putting me just under what I need and having 25 years (minus 10 turns if they don't flip/war with England) to take care of it.

    TL:DR?--Big fan of the idea, but needs a bit of balancing/tweaking. And to save from posting again later, I may feel similar about "Control 75% of the Mediterranean" if it reads like it plays :p
     
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,681
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    On which revision are you in this screenshot? The territory calculation was fixed around 320, and I need to know whether I need to account for this or not here.
     
  13. OnlySigurd

    OnlySigurd Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    The Belly Button of the Bible Belt
    Ahh that's it then...looks like I'm on 315 :mischief: I'll figure out how to update it and try France again later today. Thank ye :)
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,681
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    I can't guarantee that an update to the latest revision will still be compatible with your savegame, so if you want to continue it, use "update to revision" and choose the one which mentions the French territory goal fix in the logs.
     
  15. OnlySigurd

    OnlySigurd Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    The Belly Button of the Bible Belt
    Oh I'll just start her again, and hope Rome gets taken by barbs again :)
     
  16. Hamir

    Hamir Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    London, England
    I've only played a couple of games, but the Dutch don't seem to be up to much.

    They have strong naval power but Amsterdam gets badly squeezed culturally so it doesn't really cover many tiles, is this deliberate?
     
  17. Soujya

    Soujya Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    You might be aware of this already Leoreth, but there seems to be an issue with the Mughals. Some of their cities have flipped Aztec on collapse in several recent games.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,681
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    It's hard to reproduce and fix that; a save from before their spawn would be helpful.
     
  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,681
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    I've changed the Thai spawn so that if Angkor has a wonder, it will not be razed and renamed to Ayutthaya instead. Works only for the AI though so you can't rely on it for the UHV.
     
  20. Soujya

    Soujya Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Here's two saves, each one turn before the Mexican re-spawn (and their Indus Valley posessions).
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page