Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Caesar Augustus]

As for mongols in Turkey,

I have played a couple of Byzantium games and i most of them I meet mongols around 1250. A few turns later they march in with around 10 keshiks and these are all converted to turkey. I dont think the latter is very good since that provides turkey with too much starting units and thus disbalancing the game

I was wondering why Turkey was having such an easy time taking over the Middle East lately. Guess that explains it.

 

[Leoreth]

As for mongols in Turkey,

I have played a couple of Byzantium games and i most of them I meet mongols around 1250. A few turns later they march in with around 10 keshiks and these are all converted to turkey. I dont think the latter is very good since that provides turkey with too much starting units and thus disbalancing the game

Noticed that as well.

Mouse over Info say that Keshiks have flanking effect against Cats and Trebs, but they do no flanking damage...

The siege units can't be in a city, and you need to win the battle to do flanking damage.

 

[Tigranes]

They weren't! And I did win the battle.

 

[Leoreth]

Then I'm lost.

 

[Visard]

I tried new Babylon on Emperor normal speed. This is how game went:

1. Send my initial warrior to collect money from all the goody huts around Europa.
2. Built couple of Bowmen and hired mercenary.
3. Conquered Shushan.
4. Discovered Writing.
4. Conquered Niwt-Rst.
5. Built library in Babilu.
6. Raized Jerusalem.
7. Built lot of workers to build cottages.
8. Discovered Mining, Mysticism, Masonry, Polytheism.
9. Built Ziggurat to all cities.
10. Discovered Priesthood and built Oracle (turn 81).
11. Noticed that you cannot get Monarchy from Oracle.

That will make Babylons uhv very hard. Maybe impossible on Emperor.
Suggestion: If Sphinx could be built without Pantheon Babylon could use it to get great Artist to bulb Monarchy before Persians spawn.

 

[Leoreth]

You can oracle Monarchy, but you have to enter the classical era before (don't know if that makes researching another tech worthwhile).

That said, I balance for Monarch only, and I'd rather have the UHV be a compelling challenge in that difficulty than making it possible on Emperor. Seeing that the time is designed to be very tight playing them with Babylon only, you might be right that Emperor is impossible for them.

 

[Cosmos1985]

Half of my games, Buddhism is founded by Babylonia. And more often than not, Zoro is founded by the Phoenicians or by Babylonia.

Seljuks works quite well, I think.

Babylonia imo should be hit once again with the nerf-hammer And I remember there was talk about forbidding them from building settlers - that would be AI-only I assume - but if that is too much, maybe they should get even more reduced likelihood to build them.

Silk Route can really be insanely powerful in the hands of a human Arabia or Persia (etc.) - maybe it should be weakened a slight bit, or given a max. gain, or something.

And finally: please please please, 3000 BC starts results in Buddhist and/or Islamic and/or Hindu and/or Zoro Europe way too often - I recall the spread rates of some of these were lowered for Europe, but I think the effect of it has been too small. Christianity doesn't do as well as it should most of the times, not anything close to it.

As always, great job and thanks again for all your hard work Leoreth. I never imagined RFC would continue to improve as greatly as this, so long after Civ V.

Edit: Oh and a very small thing; the dawn of man text for China says something with 3000BC when doing the 600AD start as well.

Edit II: My last game Carthage founded a city in central France, 1S of the wine - is this WAD?

Edit III: Another very minor error, but the civilopedia for Greece still asks you to take control of Egpyt

 

[Leoreth]

Babylonia could probably use a higher unit cost.

I'm already working on a way around the Buddhism problem.

 

[jammerculture]

Currently playing a game as Turkey. The whole Dynamic in the middle east has changed with the uber mongols and the respawns of Egypt and Iran. I could never really have fun with the Turks before as fighting indies or an ahistorical arab civ was never very fun for me, so well done.

 

[Leoreth]

Edit II: My last game Carthage founded a city in central France, 1S of the wine - is this WAD?

Sometimes they get pushed out of Phoenicia proper, but I don't really know why they go to France then. Netherlands also has the problem of getting kicked out by foreign culture. I've now added two extra rules which I hope will solve this problem:

1) as long as you have no cities (i.e. before you found your first one, the capital), you can enter enemy territory, so no pushout anymore
2) AI only: you can found cities in enemy territory as long as you have no cities. I didn't extend this to the player because I imagine that could be abused then.

Edit III: Another very minor error, but the civilopedia for Greece still asks you to take control of Egpyt

The Greek UHV still includes Egypt.

 

[Cosmos1985]

It wasn't their first city at all, I have no idea why they chose to settle there. Oh well.

Sure, but it says "Egpyt", not Egypt...

 

[Leoreth]

I suppose I need to revisit their settler maps then. And I thought "Egpyt" was a typo on your part. Oh my

 

[AOS9001]

I posted this issue earlier, but it seems to have been lost in the flood: Spain, and other European powers, are not conquering the New World as they should be. Most games, there isn't a European presence in America until the 1600s, and Spain especially will often not have gunpowder by the 1580s, which is rather odd. It seems something is off.

 

[Linkman226]

Noticed this as well. I wonder if the destruction of the Arabs is somehow slowing down the Euros by removing a tech partner from them.

 

[Leoreth]

This would be very surprising considering Saladin's reluctance to trade techs.

 

[Linkman226]

That was my second thought

But I don't know. That's the only major change I can think of that even comes within the vicinity of the Europeans. Of course, it could just be the butterfly effect, in which case it would be next to impossible to pinpoint a specific cause.

 

[IrishDragon]

Maybe its because if the Arabs are usually advanced that makes researching techs slightly cheaper for the rest of the civs to research, but doesn't count now if they die often or are battered?

 

[Tigranes]

Then I'm lost.

I can't believe you simply give up on Keshiks ! I mean it's completely ruining Mongol game -- any Knight I hire does flanking damage, but if I attack the same stack with Keshik -- it doesn't. There has to be a reason for this. Can you at least verify yourself -- perhaps there is something wrong with my updated SVN version...

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, I haven't given up on it; it's on my to do list.

 

[Cosmos1985]

Babylonia currently gets the 20%-culture-thing-advantage in the tiles surrounding Sur, making life quite rough on AI Phoenicia. Bug or WAD?

Also, Silk Route spread to Knossos, is that intentional?

I also seem to have a really hard time keeping the stability score up in the foreign category - just had a recent game where I was at minus 63, even though I had no wars going on, and only had a few ever, currently OB with almost everyone and two vassals; it is maybe a bit too difficult as of now. Or maybe I just suck - that is absolutely a possibility aswell