Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
because if you dont believe in religion, then you will see it, and just dimiss it as 'chance,' or 'luck.'
Curt's Invitation - Prove God Exists!
- Thread starter CurtSibling
- Start date
civ2
Emperor
- Joined
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warpus
Stubborn is the lightest word regarding you and similar guys.
God doesn't need a "creator" by the very meaning of the word God (the Creator).
God is the I-don't-know-how-to-call-but-not-"thing" which is the Creator and the Almighty.
This very description denys any "higher" "forces" above God.
That's why it's ridiculous to speak of "God's creator".
And God is interacting with the world - by recreating it every second.
Don't search for physical "properties" in God - that's ridiculous and stupid.
God isn't physical (but He contains it too).
The universe "lies" in God but doesn't describe or limit Him even to an amount of a quark.
You can say that it is a bit similar to a cell in a human body - even though the physical body consists of cells - no cell has any intellect and the body isn't described by cells - it's a whole (and somewhat unique compared to a cell) thing in itself not a "sum" of cells.
Everything is in God - but God is more than JUST everything - God is God.
Period.
Stubborn is the lightest word regarding you and similar guys.
God doesn't need a "creator" by the very meaning of the word God (the Creator).
God is the I-don't-know-how-to-call-but-not-"thing" which is the Creator and the Almighty.
This very description denys any "higher" "forces" above God.
That's why it's ridiculous to speak of "God's creator".
And God is interacting with the world - by recreating it every second.
Don't search for physical "properties" in God - that's ridiculous and stupid.
God isn't physical (but He contains it too).
The universe "lies" in God but doesn't describe or limit Him even to an amount of a quark.
You can say that it is a bit similar to a cell in a human body - even though the physical body consists of cells - no cell has any intellect and the body isn't described by cells - it's a whole (and somewhat unique compared to a cell) thing in itself not a "sum" of cells.
Everything is in God - but God is more than JUST everything - God is God.
Period.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Shouldn't you believe in religion (in part) because you blieve in God, no te other way around?Cheezy the Wiz said:
Perfection
The Great Head.
If all things don't require a creator then why must you allege one exists?civ2 said:
Why can't the universe simply exist?
Corlindale
Emperor
I might as well argue that if you do believe in religion you'll tend to ascribe profound importance to occurances of random chance.
Thanks for the compliment
That is God as you believe him to be. Others might disagree on your definition. But once again we're back at the whole belief question - to a non-believer you have not provided an argument, merely described your idea of God. If a God can exist eternally without a creator, why not the universe? What makes you want to extend the chain by that extra metaphysical link when you still mean to fall back to the eternal existance argument for that link?
Not a good way to inspire further discussion
civ2
Emperor
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Perfection
I answer those who write.
I mean whenever an idea is written then I answer IT according to IT.
There are at least two atheistic points:
1. Universe doesn't need God=Creator.
2. God needs His own creator.
Those two are somewhat incoherent so I answer each according to its point.
I answer those who write.
I mean whenever an idea is written then I answer IT according to IT.
There are at least two atheistic points:
1. Universe doesn't need God=Creator.
2. God needs His own creator.
Those two are somewhat incoherent so I answer each according to its point.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Cheezy the Wiz said:
When I look at an apple, I see an apple. When I look at a construction site, I see construction workers. When I look at a man slipping and falling on the ground, I see gravity in action.
I have yet to see God's interaction with my life. Ever. I am a very open minded man.. If i saw anything out of the ordinary - I would question it.
I've been involved in some pretty bizarre coincidences - is that what you're referring to?
civ2 said:
That's just philisophical pondering on your part - and has no basis in facts or reality.
I could just as easily say "God, by the very meaning of the word, is made of oranges"
or
"The Universe, by the very meaning of the word, doesn't need a creator"
Your logic goes as follows: God doesn't require a creator because I've defined God not to require a creator
That is circular reasoning.
I could easily define the Universe not to have a beginning and then claim that it is obvious that it doesn't have one - by definition.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
I believe that God himself created the universe through the big bang.Corlindale said:
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
God had no beginning; He always was and He always will be.warpus said:
Raisin Bran
Cereal Killer
I belive there is no god.
the only way we will know is when we die ..... but no one has ever come back from death to prove it to you Curt! And I strongly doubt that that will ever happen.
the only way we will know is when we die ..... but no one has ever come back from death to prove it to you Curt! And I strongly doubt that that will ever happen.
civ2
Emperor
- Joined
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- 1,650
warpus
I don't want to sound somewhat anti-topic but:
Whenever you see an apple you know it's an apple since everybody calls it an apple and it has distinctive properties like color shape taste etc.
That's with physical objects - ANY physical objects actually.
But when we speak of God we don't have that clear "definition" because different people understand Him differently.
But - there're still some points that must be common for everybody - or we stop speaking of God and go to Radioactive MonkeyD ).
Whenever you "make" God limited or "powerless" - you refer to a Radioactive Monkey and not to God.
That's the main point of what I wanted to say.
I don't want to sound somewhat anti-topic but:
Whenever you see an apple you know it's an apple since everybody calls it an apple and it has distinctive properties like color shape taste etc.
That's with physical objects - ANY physical objects actually.
But when we speak of God we don't have that clear "definition" because different people understand Him differently.
But - there're still some points that must be common for everybody - or we stop speaking of God and go to Radioactive Monkey
D ).Whenever you "make" God limited or "powerless" - you refer to a Radioactive Monkey and not to God.
That's the main point of what I wanted to say.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Huh?civ2 said:
That's only in response to those who say that everything needs a cause and yet believe that god has no cause. You can't have it both ways, either everything needs a cause or everything doesn't. If everything doesn't (as we seem to agree) then what makes you sure that God is the only entity with this property, why can't the universe be uncaused?civ2 said:
Corlindale
Emperor
That's not entirely true. Many religious people believe in a somewhat limited God. Eran of Arcadia previously stated that he does not view God as truly omnipotent(feel free to correct me if I'm pulling words out of your mouth here, Eran), and some Christian philosophers have also stated the view that God cannot act contrary to logic, or contrary to the established physical laws of the universe.
civ2 said:
I'll pick up on this point.
Doesn't this mean that most people have got it wrong? After all whatever God is he is a specific thing. A vague concept cannot create a universe afterall.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Read what, the apple thing?civ2 said:Perfection
Read above please.
Tell me what you are talking about and how it applies?
Yeah, you're no longer making any sense.civ2 said:It's past midnight by me...
I'm tired..........................
