Curt's Invitation - Prove God Exists!

[GenMarshall]

I never knew you knew so much about the psychology of religion, philosopher and psychoanalyst another string to your bow, I just learned more in this thread than I have all day, thanks

I am actualy finishing up my Batchellors in Psychology. I am due to graduate with my degree in the summer of 2007 .

 

[CurtSibling]

Well, to bring this debate back on track:

We have had some nice personal views, but as the OP rules point out, this
is of limited use to the direction of the thread. So, in order to re-invigorate
things, I want to ask: why and how do religious people 'feel' or 'see' god?

It seems this is a point, as religious posters are quick to sniff and state
only by experiencing their god can you know it...I am unconvinced at this.
It sounds like a mental foible or perhaps a self-deception. So, I ask these
people who claim to have 'felt' god to describe in detail what this involves.

*What sensations do you have?
*How does this enhance your belief?
*How do you know you are seeing a god?
*Are you worried it may be a mental illness?

In addition, people have stated that we should respect people's belief in
god, just out of being 'nice' - I call this hogwash. I would not respect
Osama Bin Laden's beliefs, so why should I fawn at any other religious
person and their unproven claims? I would also like to confront this issue
head on...The fact that we must pretend a god exists to please people...

I think people asking for respect towards a god, are tacitly demanding
that the non-believer actually credit their god's existence, as that what
'respect' for their beliefs amount to. It is an entrapment. And that is why
I for one, do not furnish believers with any respect for their gods.

I put this before the religionists, the reason you want respect is because
you arrogantly surmise that we are all followers of your faith, regardless
of our own philosophies or thinking - Which (if true) is staggeringly unfair.

Also, you feel people should treat you with respect due to your feelings
for a god that cannot be proven, and you follow without a shred of proof
but feel everyone else should be satisfied with this dearth of evidence.
Wht do you assume everyone else be so easily content with this?

Invite posters to debate these points at their liberty.

.

 

[GenMarshall]

*What sensations do you have?
*How does this enhance your belief?
*How do you know you are seeing a god?
*Are you worried it may be a mental illness?

The sensations that I have and feel are warmth, kindness, and love. How it enhances my beliefs is that it helps me to strive to improve my own character as well as strive to be as kind and loving as God. I do not know if I am seeing God because I believe that God cannot be seen by our own eyes. I am not worried if its a mental illness since a belief in God is not a mental disorder in my view. There is nothing about being religious that would justify in any slightest way of being placed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Mental Disorders cause suffering in the individual, and/or prevent an individual from fuctioning in society. Being religious does not predispose the person to be eather.

 

[Tulkas12]

Well, to bring this debate back on track:

We have had some nice personal views, but as the OP rules point out, this
is of limited use to the direction of the thread. So, in order to re-invigorate
things, I want to ask: why and how do religious people 'feel' or 'see' god?

It seems this is a point, as religious posters are quick to sniff and state
only by experiencing their god can you know it...I am unconvinced at this.
It sounds like a mental foible or perhaps a self-deception. So, I ask these
people who claim to have 'felt' god to describe in detail what this involves.

*What sensations do you have?
*How does this enhance your belief?
*How do you know you are seeing a god?
*Are you worried it may be a mental illness?

In addition, people have stated that we should respect people's belief in
god, just out of being 'nice' - I call this hogwash. I would not respect
Osama Bin Laden's beliefs, so why should I fawn at any other religious
person and their unproven claims? I would also like to confront this issue
head on...The fact that we must pretend a god exists to please people...

I think people asking for respect towards a god, are tacitly demanding
that the non-believer actually credit their god's existence, as that what
'respect' for their beliefs amount to. It is an entrapment. And that is why
I for one, do not furnish believers with any respect for their gods.

I put this before the religionists, the reason you want respect is because
you arrogantly surmise that we are all followers of your faith, regardless
of our own philosophies or thinking - Which (if true) is staggeringly unfair.

Also, you feel people should treat you with respect due to your feelings
for a god that cannot be proven, and you follow without a shred of proof
but feel everyone else should be satisfied with this dearth of evidence.
Wht do you assume everyone else be so easily content with this?

Invite posters to debate these points at their liberty.

.

I don't understand why ppl reply to this. There is no way to prove, therefore no way to disprove. If one feels the need to acknowledge "a god" then why does it bother youso? good counter question.

 

[CurtSibling]

I don't understand why ppl reply to this. There is no way to prove, therefore no way to disprove. If one feels the need to acknowledge "a god" then why does it bother youso?

You replied to it.

And it is a fair question by me.
Why should we respect something that is not there.

good counter question.

I am still waiting for one.

.

 

[CurtSibling]

The sensations that I have and feel are warmth, kindness, and love. How it enhances my beliefs is that it helps me to strive to improve my own character as well as strive to be as kind and loving as God. I do not know if I am seeing God because I believe that God cannot be seen by our own eyes. I am not worried if its a mental illness since a belief in God is not a mental disorder in my view. There is nothing about being religious that would justify in any slightest way of being placed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Mental Disorders cause suffering in the individual, and/or prevent an individual from fuctioning in society. Being religious does not predispose the person to be eather.

There is more to mental illness that just suffering.
Most people who are in this state are unaware that something is wrong.

Feelings of 'warmth' and 'love' are generated by the mind, and given reaction
by the body, which obeys the brain. So are you stipulating that your god
has a link to your mind...Or what part of your body?

.

 

[Tulkas12]

You replied to it.

And it is a fair question by me.
Why should we respect something that is not there.



I am still waiting for one.

.

No seriously, Why does it bother you so much?

I didn't respond to your silly question with an answer just another question so that I may be able to see into you even more clearly than I already do.

 

[Tulkas12]

There is more to mental illness that just suffering.
Most people who are in this state are unaware that something is wrong.

Feelings of 'warmth' and 'love' are generated by the mind, and given reaction
by the body, which obeys the brain. So are you stipulating that your god
has a link to your mind...Or what part of your body?

.

See? Hell, your sig is flaming with hatred.

 

[CurtSibling]

No seriously, Why does it bother you so much?

If you have to ask why the debate about religion and god is of interest to
the non-believer...I humbly request think about what you are asking here.

I don't believe in god, but people tell me I should - ...

I am asking for reasons why I should take what I consider a myth to be serious.

I didn't respond to your silly question with an answer just another question so that I may be able to see into you even more clearly than I already do.

Who are you?
Detective Columbo?

This is called a debate, and people are engaging in it because
they are interested in the subject matter. If you are not, then
no-one is forcing you to take part...Post if you have proof of god.

That is all.

.

 

[Tulkas12]

If you have to ask why the debate about religion and god is of interest to
the non-believer...I humbly request think about what you are asking here.

I don't believe in god, but people tell me I should - ...

I am asking for reasons why I should take what I consider a myth to be serious.



Who are you?
Detective Columbo?

This is called a debate, and people are engaging in it because
they are interested in the subject matter. If you are not, then
no-one is forcing you to take part...Post if you have proof of god.

That is all.

.

I am asking because it fascinates me why most aethiests are so concerned about other people's beliefs. I geuss this isn't allowed in this thread, so I'll stop asking as per your request. Fyi, no one should be pushing you about this anyways. If you were raised or choose to believe so be it.


Your sublect matter amounts to childish flaming imo, but before they close your precious thread, let it be known that I don't want them to, if one person recognizes my point I'll be happy.

I would never try to prove the unprovable.

 

[Stylesjl]

Curtsibling is asking a fair question- Why should people beleive in god? He isn't asking for stupid copouts like "Its a matter of faith" or "Disprove god please" he is asking why people beleive something that seems to have no evidence at all.

I'm sure he doesn't lose sleep over people beleiving or worry about it all day. But i too find it quite facinating why people beleive in something like Christ when the flying spaghetti monster is equally as valid.

 

[CurtSibling]

I am asking because it fascinates me why most aethiests are so concerned about other people's beliefs. I geuss this isn't allowed in this thread, so I'll stop asking as per your request. Fyi, no one should be pushing you about this anyways. If you were raised or choose to believe so be it.

Thanks for being reasonable.
It also interests me why people believe the things they do.
That is the focus of this thread...I just want to study minds.

Your sublect matter amounts to childish flaming imo, but before they close your precious thread, let it be known that I don't want them to, if one person recognizes my point I'll be happy.

My thread has already had some great posts, and I have been complimentary
to some good opinions by religious posters. Not childish by any means. I see
your posts are dripping with anger, and I cannot imagine why...This thread is
positive and has helped bring some posters together.

I would never try to prove the unprovable.

Why not?

.

 

[HannibalBarka]

I am asking because it fascinates me why most aethiests are so concerned about other people's beliefs.

Because most theist are concerned about other people's beliefs and non-beliefs

I would never try to prove the unprovable.

You hit it buddy !! For an atheist like me, since God is unprobable, I see "believing in God" like believing in UFO, worse it's like making believing in UFO a central matter of one's life. Wouldn't you find it "weird"?

 

[CurtSibling]

Curtsibling is asking a fair question- Why should people beleive in god? He isn't asking for stupid copouts like "Its a matter of faith" or "Disprove god please" he is asking why people beleive something that seems to have no evidence at all.

I'm sure he doesn't lose sleep over people beleiving or worry about it all day. But i too find it quite facinating why people beleive in something like Christ when the flying spaghetti monster is equally as valid.

Thanks, Stylesjl!

Indeed, I just want people to examine what they claim to believe...
I have respect for people like CivGeneral, Erik and Eran, who can look
at their own ideologies and give us detailed corroboration of them.

.

 

[Tulkas12]

Because most theist are concerned about other people's beliefs and non-beliefs



You hit it buddy !! For an atheist like me, since God is unprobable, I see "believing in God" like believing in UFO, worse it's like making believing in UFO a central matter of one's life. Wouldn't you find it "weird"?

Yes, but why do aetheists concern themselves so? I do understand that they do.

I don;t see what probability has to do with it, was that a typo? Death has alot to do with it, and as our favorite game quotes. . .

"Nature has imprinted on the mind's of us all the idea of God" -Cicero

 

[Tulkas12]

Curtsibling is asking a fair question- Why should people beleive in god? He isn't asking for stupid copouts like "Its a matter of faith" or "Disprove god please" he is asking why people beleive something that seems to have no evidence at all.

I'm sure he doesn't lose sleep over people beleiving or worry about it all day. But i too find it quite facinating why people beleive in something like Christ when the flying spaghetti monster is equally as valid.

Trust me, you don't doubt the happenings of Jesus Christ. If you do then you are failing logic. He was a man, on this earth, he did do things.

I still consider the question flamatory in nature. Imo he's out to ppiss people off. Considering the average age of people here, he's also probably messing with impressionable minds. I'm sure he enjoys the last aspect of my post.

 

[Truronian]

Yes, but why do aetheists concern themselves so? I do understand that they do.

When someone tries to impose their beliefs onto others (as some theists do) its at least courteous to explain why those beliefs are correct.

 

[CurtSibling]

Yes, but why do aetheists concern themselves so? I do understand that they do.

We are human, and we wish to understand the condition of our fellows.

What more reason do you need? We moved on from the fancies of a god,
we want to know why other people cannot see what we see also...

But that is not the case for all atheists, just from my perosonal view.

"Nature has imprinted on the mind's of us all the idea of God" -Cicero

Which god do you mean?

Humans had early notions that there was a god, and the idea has stuck.
Does not make it a human genetic imperative, though....Perhaps a deep-rooted memory.

.

 

[Tulkas12]

When someone tries to impose their beliefs onto others (as some theists do) its at least courteous to explain why those beliefs are correct.

Yes, but if an aetheist was truly secure in their beleifs why does it bother them so? This falls into a security issue. . . I'm not gay, I have no issue with gay jokes about me. This kind of thing.

 

[CurtSibling]

Trust me, you don't doubt the happenings of Jesus Christ. If you do then you are failing logic. He was a man, on this earth, he did do things.

That is blocky thinking...I consider JC to be an archetype...A mixture of men
from that time...Made into some kind of classical superhero for the masses.

See it as you see fit...This thread is not about him.

I still consider the question flamatory in nature. Imo he's out to ppiss people off. Considering the average age of people here, he's also probably messing with impressionable minds. I'm sure he enjoys the last aspect of my post.

Consider what you wish. But the thread was readily accepted by the leading
religious people on this board, and I would react to their concerns if they had
any...And they would not hesitate to level complaints, I can assure you, sir.

I don't have any need to toy with minds, I have my own to play with.

Anything positive to add, or are you out for full discomposure today?

.