Curt's Invitation - Prove God Exists!

[carlosMM]

Being religious does not cause suffering nor does it impair the person from funtioning normaly.

As this sentence stands, it is false. Now, in 99.9% of cases, it is certainly correct. But extreme religiousnes can cause suffering, and can impair the person from functioning normally. Or would you say religiously motivated suicide is 'functioning normally'?

 

[Paradigne]

As this sentence stands, it is false. Now, in 99.9% of cases, it is certainly correct. But extreme religiousnes can cause suffering, and can impair the person from functioning normally. Or would you say religiously motivated suicide is 'functioning normally'?

That staement is also unfair... Extreme ANYTHING can cause suffering and impair a person from functioning normally.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

That staement is also unfair... Extreme ANYTHING can cause suffering and impair a person from functioning normally.

Unfair, maybe, but true nonetheless. I suppose extreme atheism can impair function, by which I mean someone who is so hostile to religion that he or she is unable to have a normal relationship with religious people.

 

[GenMarshall]

As this sentence stands, it is false. Now, in 99.9% of cases, it is certainly correct. But extreme religiousnes can cause suffering, and can impair the person from functioning normally. Or would you say religiously motivated suicide is 'functioning normally'?

I am only refering to well established religions such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Shintoism. The people who follow thoes religions are both religious as well as function normaly in society. Even in Christianity that suicide is a mortal sin. Judaism has great emphasis on the sanctity of life and view suicide as a sin. In Islam, its also a sin to comit suicide. Suicide is forbiden in all circumstances even in war. Many of you are going to say, "but we have Islamic Fundies blowing themselves up", thats only a small minority of Muslims. Hindus believe that murdering one's own body is equaly sinful as murdering another. Why even Buddhism sees sucide as a wrong thing to do.

The only extrime religiousness stems into the psychology of cults, especialy dangerous cults such as Scientology and Heaven's Gate.

 

[mdwh]

As well as the idea that many religious people argue their morality based on nothing more than "what the Bible says" (even if the UK and US are supposedly secular countries, these people still exist), there is also the point that in UK *state* schools (the one I went to, at least), Christianity is preached to children, and they are also forced to pray and sing hymns.

So yes, that bothered me, and I wonder why people believe in such a thing, and wish to force it upon young children.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Christians want more christians just like Dallas Cowboys fans want more Dallas Cowboys fans. And just like atheists wish there were more atheists (or fewer chriatians). Humans want their chosen group to be the most important one. It might be the case that british sports hooligans cause more destruction today than christian groups.

 

[Fr8monkey]

Christians want more christians just like Dallas Cowboys fans want more Dallas Cowboys fans. And just like atheists wish there were more atheists (or fewer chriatians).

Don't think that! I am an Athiest and just want to be left to my beliefs. Don't tell me how to live and then judge me for not following your way.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Don't think that! I am an Athiest and just want to be left to my beliefs. Don't tell me how to live and then judge me for not following your way.

Hmm... I don't recall telling you how to live or judging you, but if I did have any advice it would only be to act kindly every chance you got .

Personally, I think your beliefs are great and don't have a problem with them at all. My post above was a generalization about people and how they behave in groups. Your particular situation is probably different, but that does not change how humans as a group tend to do things. Your wanting to be left alone with your beliefs does not change the fact that Mormonism is a very fast growing religion that actively seeks new members or that many atheists would like to see fewer christians. In any case I did not not mean to point specifically at you in any way.

 

[CurtSibling]

I'll be back this afternoon to pick up what has been happening on the thread.

See you all then!

 

[Perfection]

I am only refering to well established religions such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Shintoism.

I can think of a few suicides motivated by these religions...

 

[Fr8monkey]

Hmm... I don't recall telling you how to live or judging you, but if I did have any advice it would only be to act kindly every chance you got .

I was making a statment about christions in general, not you. I did not mean to offend. I was just using your statement and going with it. I think if everyone followed their beliefs ( or lack of) and left each other to theirs; this would be a happier place.

 

[nihilistic]

In Islam, its also a sin to comit suicide. Suicide is forbiden in all circumstances even in war. Many of you are going to say, "but we have Islamic Fundies blowing themselves up", thats only a small minority of Muslims.

The problem is that most religious moderates tolerate and sometimes cheer on their fundie counterparts. Look at Iraq for example. How the hell can the insurgents stay undercover all that time without some kind of collusion between them and the general citizenry?

 

[Sidhe]

The problem is that most religious moderates tolerate and sometimes cheer on their fundie counterparts. Look at Iraq for example. How the hell can the insurgents stay undercover all that time without some kind of collusion between them and the general citizenry?

They have guns and a will to use them, people seem often strangely meek in the face of fire power.

Moderates don't cheer on anything, they just aren't heard of often because they aren't out in the street burning flags and causing trouble. Fundementalists have a huge influence on what we see on western media simply because the minorites aren't out there bellowing loudly while the liberals are in doors living normal lives.

Good example the BBC went to Iraq after the media extravaganza thats showed Iraqis in full support of the atrocity of 9-11, they spoke to real people behind the scenes and found that this was a minority action, and that nearly all Iraqis decried it as anti Islamic, but of course the US didn't care to see this, they just thought a load of loud mouth idiots represented an entire muslim community. Wake up smell the coffee, don't base your judgement on the first news story you see.

 

[nihilistic]

Moderates don't cheer on anything, they just aren't heard of often because they aren't out in the street burning flags and causing trouble. Fundementalists have a huge influence on what we see on western media simply because the minorites aren't out there bellowing loudly while the liberals are in doors living normal lives.

I probably shouldn't have used the words "cheer on", because it si indeed in a minority of cases. However, most of the time religious moderates do tolerate the religious fundie rants of their own religion. Consider Pat Robertson's comments on how the US had it coming. If he were anything else but a Christian fundie, there would be no way he got away with that.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I was making a statment about christions in general, not you. I did not mean to offend. I was just using your statement and going with it. I think if everyone followed their beliefs ( or lack of) and left each other to theirs; this would be a happier place.

Not a problem.

 

[GinandTonic]

Used to be that to achieve certain academic positions it was necessary to form a new proof of god. Hume (I think) came up with "Since the existence of God is so unlikly, the continued existence of a widespread faith in him is in itself a merical and thus proves his existence".

Got the job with everyone thinking he was somewhat of a backslider.

 

[Quasar1011]

For one, fulfilled prophecy confirms the existence of God. Jehovah has caused His servants the prophets to write history in advance. Israel regaining its statehood after 1900 years of dispersion is one of the best examples of fulfilled prophecy. Of course, to fully delve into this issue, you'd have to waive point #7.

(7) No bible quotes are to be used in place of intelligent arguments.

 

[Perfection]

Quasar, the rule doesn't forbid you from talking about a bible quote, it forbids you from using it in place of an intelligent arguement.

 

[CurtSibling]

For one, fulfilled prophecy confirms the existence of God. Jehovah has caused His servants the prophets to write history in advance. Israel regaining its statehood after 1900 years of dispersion is one of the best examples of fulfilled prophecy. Of course, to fully delve into this issue, you'd have to waive point #7.

Prophesy is penned by men and is of no use when seeking the proof of a deity.

To state point blank that some shaky predictions by a shaman proves
the existence of a god is pushing the boat out to a massive degree.

I will not accept dogma in the place of intelligent debate.

.

 

[CurtSibling]

I am only refering to well established religions such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Shintoism. The people who follow thoes religions are both religious as well as function normaly in society. Even in Christianity that suicide is a mortal sin. Judaism has great emphasis on the sanctity of life and view suicide as a sin. In Islam, its also a sin to comit suicide. Suicide is forbiden in all circumstances even in war. Many of you are going to say, "but we have Islamic Fundies blowing themselves up", thats only a small minority of Muslims. Hindus believe that murdering one's own body is equaly sinful as murdering another. Why even Buddhism sees sucide as a wrong thing to do.

The only extrime religiousness stems into the psychology of cults, especialy dangerous cults such as Scientology and Heaven's Gate.

Again, a quite well-thought out paragraph.

But the vast majority of humans are likely put aside their beliefs when
face with crisis or deadly situations, and moderate religious people are
just as likely to commit suicide as anyone else...

A point of note:
Indeed, extreme religious people have all the trappings of insane humans.
So, can we project that moderate religious people have a mild version of
this mental state, which can be provoked into full blown frenzy?

.