Custom-buidling a computer

[Quintillus]

edit: ops, please move this to the computer board. Sorry about that.

I am interested in custom-making my next computer. It will be a good while before I do this because I'm saving up for a car, but I look forward to it and I'd like to discuss this with anyone that has done it.

By the time I will have the car and afford this computer, Windows 8 will have been out. And I want it to run on Windows 8 (probably professional, unless there is a compelling reason to get ultimate).

How many of you have made your own computer? Have you had problems with it? Does it work well?

Do you all have websites and/or books to recommend for making your own computer? I know nothing about it really.

note: Since I'm making this myself, I don't really care about "name brand" for the components. Just the best tech specs for the money.

Sticking to general points rather than specifics (since what's available may change before you decide to build a computer), and avoiding the debate on whether Luckymoose is violating the laws of physics...

I built a computer for the first time last fall. Once I got everything properly connected the first time, I haven't had any problems with it. I can't recall ever having received a blue screen of death or otherwise having it unexpectedly shut down. Buying something better than the cheapest components I could find probably helped, but it's also a testament to it not being too difficult to build a reliable computer if you have good parts.

illram mentioned several good sites. I'll also mention that YouTube is pretty useful for when you aren't sure if you're doing something the right way or not. Definitely have another computer ready for reference purposes. And although some people will say there's no need for manuals, I found them to be useful. I didn't read every word, but it's a better choice than guessing when you aren't sure.

The home editions of Windows, for one computer, generally run about $100. I don't think Windows 8 pricing has been announced, but it's probably safe to expect it to be similar.

Things I did that I'd recommend:

• Going for above-average quality components. Don't buy a cheap power supply. Not only might it be less reliable, but it could fry everything. I wouldn't spend anywhere near as much as the top-end motherboards go for, but I wouldn't buy the cheapest, either, as the lower costs have to come from somewhere. This is probably part of the reason my custom-built computer is more reliable than my laptop. Also, something like a case can be a long-term investment. If you're going to be using it for 10 years, you might be glad you spent more on one with smooth edges, good cable management, or better acoustics.
• Shop around for deals once you know what parts you want and are ready to act quickly. The price I got my CPU for 8 months ago still isn't matched on Newegg (or even that close), either for the same one or newer ones that are similar, but I'd looked at a lot of options before seeing the deal I went for. Similarly, I got my hard drives at a brick and mortar store for a fraction of what they were going for online at the time.
• Buy a surge protector. I've heard that it's rather unpleasant to have fried computers and to have lost all your data due to power fluctuations.

Things that I might do differently:

• In the future, I might ignore all mail-in-rebates when deciding what's the best value. Sometimes it works, but sometimes they get refused inexplicably, so you can't really rely on them. Even when they work, you usually get an AMEX gift card, while a plain old check would be just as good.
• If you plan to buy lots of parts in a short time, especially if it's mostly online or around holiday time (say, Black Friday), spread it out across multiple cards if possible. Otherwise, you might run into some issues with cards being frozen for "suspicious activity".

Good luck with the car! Reliable transportation sure is nice.

 

[Zelig]

[*]Buy a surge protector. I've heard that it's rather unpleasant to have fried computers and to have lost all your data due to power fluctuations.

I'd get a good cheap surge protector (I've got like 6 of these kicking around), but don't count on them stopping any close lightning strike to your house - the lightning just traveled through several kilometers of air, a fantastic insulator, a few gizmos in a surge protector isn't going to stop your electronics from getting fried.

Any RAID setup is a redundancy system, not a backup, and important backups should be stored off-site. (In case of house fire or such)

My eventual plan for file management once Win8 comes out:
Documents on PC synced to skydrive and backed up with version history to mirrored space on server.
Win8 storage space on server set up with parity for video media.
Win8 storage space on server set up with mirroring for other (music, ebooks) media.
Offsite NAS that I bring home and mirror the storage spaces to on roughly a bimonthly basis.

Pretty easily scaled down to a NAS or external drives rather than a full server.

 

[illram]

The one I use is the Hyper 212 EVO from Cooler Master. It is the undisputed copper heatsink champ.

I installed one of those on an i3-2100, a 65W chip, and it did not even get down to 20c at idle. Those are good coolers for their price range, but they are not that good.

 

[Luckymoose]

I installed one of those on an i3-2100, a 65W chip, and it did not even get down to 20c at idle. Those are good coolers for their price range, but they are not that good.

Intel runs hotter than AMD, usually. Beyond that it really depends on the total build, air flow and room temperature. I'm not lying about my temps, I monitor them all the time when doing BOINC.

 

[Zelig]

Intel runs hotter than AMD, usually.

No they don't, look at my charts.

I'm not lying about my temps, I monitor them all the time when doing BOINC.

So then the temps are obviously wrong.

 

[Luckymoose]

So then the temps are obviously wrong.

I've built numerous systems similar to this one with temps in the same range. They typically run a bit hotter than mine 15-30C. The temps aren't wrong. Some people OC these chips to 4.5GHz+ on Hyper 212 EVOs and rarely top 45-50C. Do some research with actual communities, not charts. Most people that do proper installs even get high 20s to mid 30s on i5s. I'm not sure why you don't believe that my system runs this cool. There is cold air from an AC constantly pouring into my room near the intake to boot.

While playing ARMA 2 a little while ago the cpu got up to 27 C, which is the highest I've ever seen it.

 

[Zelig]

I'm not sure why you don't believe that my system runs this cool.

Physically impossible for air cooling to go below ambient temperature.

CPU temperature sensors are notoriously inaccurate anyway, and get more inaccurate the further away you on the low end are from thermal throttling limits - they're only really useful for comparing against themselves, since they're fairly precise, even with their low accuracy. Last I checked AMD temperature monitors were specced for +/- 14 degrees, you being on the low end of that is reasonable - ie. your temps could actually range from 25C to 41C.


Seriously, if you get a fan, you can blow any amount of air on any room temperature material, and even if the material produces no heat at all, it's going to stay at room temperature. The only way you can get below room temperature with computers is with liquid nitrogen or peltier coolers.

 

[GoodGame]

That i5 runs hot as hell. My AMD FX-6100 OC'd to 4.1GHz stays under 20 C at load and idles at 11 C.

The ambient room temperature that it runs about 88 Fahrenheit, and outdoors it's been about 100 Fahrenheit. That might be part of the reason why (what Zelig said, and 31 Celsius is about the ambient temperature of the room so the difference is about 15 Celsius degrees of cooling by the fans and zeroth law of thermodynamics. Actually I think the hypothetical temp of the CPU is 2x15 degrees over ambient, by applying the zeroth law of thermodynamics). I also use the stock CPU air cooler that came with the 2500.

It's in a roomy full size ATX with good cable clearance with some powerful CFU numbers from 6 case fans + CPU Cooler and GPU cooler. I suppose I might try to put in some more 50 CFU fans.

EDIT: Started up some intensive Unreal3 based shooter (RO2) and after five minutes the CPU held at 69 Celsius and the GPU held at about 62 Celsius.

 

[GoodGame]

Enterprise is for bulk deployment on multiple computers.

Cost for the OEM version (presumably the license type you'll need) will probably be $120-$150, on par with Win7.

OEM doesn't give system support I believe. That might be a reason to buy retail.

 

[Zelig]

OEM doesn't give system support I believe. That might be a reason to buy retail.

Win8 doesn't have a retail version.

 

[illram]

IMHO there is no reason to buy a retail version. Although the OEM license is "restricted" a call to MS usually results in them giving you a new license code if you're needing it only for an upgrade.

 

[GoodGame]

IMHO there is no reason to buy a retail version. Although the OEM license is "restricted" a call to MS usually results in them giving you a new license code if you're needing it only for an upgrade.

I was talking about tech support in general (the "I am a noob, how do I do this service person?").

But I've read that what you posted is incorrect, that they in fact tie an OEM license to the specific motherboard that it is first installed onto, until death.

 

[Zelig]

But I've read that what you posted is incorrect, that they in fact tie an OEM license to the specific motherboard that it is first installed onto, until death.

The license is kind of vague. Technically, like illram said, I've never heard of anyone not being able to call up MS to get a code to fix it.

And anyway, doesn't matter, since there's no retail version of Win8.

 

[illram]

Yeah IIRC the license uses some ambiguous term like "machine" or something like that; although the software will think a new mobo is a new computer, tech support routinely gives you a new license.

 

[Quintillus]

OEM doesn't give system support I believe. That might be a reason to buy retail.

Even if we assume Win7 where there is retail, though, the value is questionable for the average user. You'll probably get an answer quicker by Binging it, and if you can't find an answer there, you can ask on a forum, usually get an answer, and not be on hold on the phone. Not saying that there aren't times when it would be useful... but I think it would be unlikely to be worth it.

I'd get a good cheap surge protector (I've got like 6 of these kicking around), but don't count on them stopping any close lightning strike to your house - the lightning just traveled through several kilometers of air, a fantastic insulator, a few gizmos in a surge protector isn't going to stop your electronics from getting fried.

Any RAID setup is a redundancy system, not a backup, and important backups should be stored off-site. (In case of house fire or such)

My eventual plan for file management once Win8 comes out:
Documents on PC synced to skydrive and backed up with version history to mirrored space on server.
Win8 storage space on server set up with parity for video media.
Win8 storage space on server set up with mirroring for other (music, ebooks) media.
Offsite NAS that I bring home and mirror the storage spaces to on roughly a bimonthly basis.

Pretty easily scaled down to a NAS or external drives rather than a full server.

You're right, it isn't a solve-all. Worth it as one step, I think so. But not magic.

What do you plan to use as offsite storage? Realistically speaking here, the most logical offsite storage that comes to mind for me is either on a drive that I'd store at work, or possibly at a friend's house where that friend doesn't live super-close (in case you might both be flooded or tornadoed).

 

[Zelig]

What do you plan to use as offsite storage? Realistically speaking here, the most logical offsite storage that comes to mind for me is either on a drive that I'd store at work, or possibly at a friend's house where that friend doesn't live super-close (in case you might both be flooded or tornadoed).

Friend's house, he lives further away than my work, and the geography here makes it extremely unlikely that both our houses would get wiped out at the same time.

 

[Integral]

I built a computer in the fall of 2009. Specs:
- Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 945
- RAM: 4GB, from G.Skill. RAM prices fluctuate wildly and you can often get extremely good deals by buying at the right time.
- Motherboard: Asus M4A78T-E
- Graphics: Radeon HD 4870
- Hard drive: 500 GB (WD Caviar Black)
- PSU: some 65W...I think it was a Corsair? It was massively overpowered, but at a good price

I love it.

One rough-and-ready guide at a variety of price points is here. The builds are optimized for gaming.

 

[Zelig]

- PSU: some 65W...I think it was a Corsair? It was massively overpowered, but at a good price

That doesn't sound massively overpowered at all.

 

[Integral]

"Massively" might have been an exaggeration; but I could have gotten by with something in the 500-500 range instead.

 

[Zelig]

"Massively" might have been an exaggeration; but I could have gotten by with something in the 500-500 range instead.

That's kind of a trivial interval.