CVN1 - Not So Corrupted Romans

[microbe]

Don't forget the unit and MP support of Monarchy. One of the biggest advantage of Republic over Monarchy is lower corruption, which is irrelevant in this game, so I doubt in the end result Republic would give us better income, and I forsee we need to go offense to get out of this hole.

I had thought about invading the other continent pretty soon to capture the Great Library, but that probably isn't feasible considering we have almost no navy..we need cats and boats. I'll start building them.

This is a partial turn-log. We have a slim chance at getting PP the first, but I think we'd better save the gold instead.

I'll continue it tonight.

=========================

preturn: Arabia and Korea lack Engineering, so it's good to have. Buy Engineering from France with 284g+34gpt. Engineering to Korea for Monotheism.

Almost everybody has Theology too. We need Theology more than Feudalism as it opens up Printing Press for us, so Engineering+21gpt+9g to Arabia for Theology.

Not surprisingly, everybody except Arabia/Korea/Maya/Hitties has Education but nobody has Printing Press! Max sci would get it in 13 turns with even, but with GA ending in a few turns and the revolting it will take longer.

We are making 107gpt and we could buy Education and trade for Feudalism, but that bankrupt us once GA is over, so no deal.

We can also trade Monotheism/Engineering to Maya for Monarch/Republic. Should we do it now or wait until we plan to revolt? And if we want Maya to get Feudalism, we'd better only trade the tech that we really want, Monarch or Republic.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

I haven't looked at the save, but do the Hittites have Monarchy/Republic? If they do then we could just extort it from them ....

 

[Bede]

@microbe,
If it works out you could go ahead and revolt and use scientists to keep the research pace up during anarchy.

Last I looked Hittites had nada for tech.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Question: Do we really think we can keep up on research with the DG ai even with republic/democracy? It seems to me their research will be even faster than it would be on a normal DG game, with the reduced corruption.

Question2: Shouldn't we hold off on Education, even if a good deal presents itself, at least until we locate the GL and assess our chances of taking it?

Just a couple of questions as I have minimal experience on DG tactics.

 

[Cuivienen]

Question: Do we really think we can keep up on research with the DG ai even with republic/democracy? It seems to me their research will be even faster than it would be on a normal DG game, with the reduced corruption.

I believe that we can catch up to the AI using Democracy or even Monarchy as long as we conquer enough land. After finishing off the Hittites, we should be able to conquer Korea, also (they are pretty far behind) and we will then have enough productive land area to work on slowly catching the AIs.

Question2: Shouldn't we hold off on Education, even if a good deal presents itself, at least until we locate the GL and assess our chances of taking it?

Yes, we should definetely hold off on Education until we know where the English are and where London (Is that where they built it?) is. Taking the GL would be even more effective than conquering Korea.

 

[microbe]

Conquering Korea would lose a good trading partner. Everyone is ahead of us except Korea, Maya (and Hitties). Korea is more valuable as it could get a free tech in each era, which we could broker with. Let's see, but at the very least we have to keep it alive.

I kinda think we need to go offense asap. I'll start building cats/trebs and boats. We have about 30 legions, and we need more.

I hope these AIs will start fighing each other.

 

[microbe]

preturn: Arabia and Korea lack Engineering, so it's good to have. Buy Engineering from France with 284g+34gpt. Engineering to Korea for Monotheism.

Almost everybody has Theology too. We need Theology more than Feudalism as it opens up Printing Press for us, so Engineering+21gpt+9g to Arabia for Theology.

Not surprisingly, everybody except Arabia/Korea/Maya/Hitties has Education but nobody has Printing Press! Max sci would get it in 13 turns with even, but with GA ending in a few turns and the revolting it will take longer.

We are making 107gpt and we could buy Education and trade for Feudalism, but that bankrupt us once GA is over, so no deal.

Hm, Either Monotheism or Engineering couldn't trade for Republic. I have to get both Monotheism and Engineering for both Republic and Monarch plus 11g. Fine.

I switch some walls to trebs and galleys.

IBT Sumeria starts Leo. France starts JS Bach's.

(1)260AD: Our infra is pathetic. I start some libraries and markets.

IBT Hitties swords attack our legions, lose 3 and win 1.

(2)270AD: Kill a spear and redline.

(3)280AD: movement. We step on Hitties' iron. I disband 2 reg warrior and 1 reg spear because we are paying unit cost.

Korea now has Feudalism, but he wouldn't trade for Theology unless we pay 25gpt. I hold for now and use all the gpt for PP.

IBT vet sword loses to our reg spear.

(4)290AD: two elite legions take Tarsus. Lose a legion but kill a sword.

IBT a sword again loses to our legion!

(5)300AD: Just notice to MM to get max commerce in certain cities.

(6)310AD: Our RNG is bad this turn. Lose two legions, kill two spears but there is still a redlined sword in Harran.

(7)320AD: We lose a legion and take Harran. Capture a cat. Kill a sword and lose another legion.

IBT Tarsus disposes. Egypt starts Smith's and Magellon's. We are too far behind.

(8)330AD: Recapture Tarsus.

(9)340AD: Maya has Feudalism too. AI know Printing Press! We have one turn to go.

We now know England. Good news: it's not very powerful! I get Printing Press+its TM+51g by Contact with Hitties+WM. We now know our target.

I trade TM+Contact with Hitties to England for TM+Contact with Mongols.

I shut off research. Our only goal is to capture London. Although she only has 6 cities, it has 4 lux resources.

I trade TM/contact with Hitties with Japan and get its TM and contact with Mongols and 35g.

Mongols lacks Theology and has Feudalism. I don't buy it yet though.

Exchange TM with France and get 9g. Exchange TM with Egypt.

Contact with Hitties to France for 31g. She becomes Annoyed from Cautious. Looks like our bad reputation is spreading out. Contact with Hitties to Egypt for 23g. Bunch of contacts + Theology + 41g to Korea gets us Feudalism. We can no longer build Legions.

Contact with Hitties and Maya + Theology to Mongols and we get Chivalry+3g.

OK, so much for tech trading - we don't need anything else. I sell PP to Greece for 10gpt+31g.

During my 10 turns I managed to get 8 techs with a fairly small gpt payment.

I switch some libraries to knights as we are not going to do research for a while.

IBT our GA ended.

(10)350AD: kill two spears in Hattusas, still at least a spear/archer inside. Next turn. Kill a 3-man chariot dropped next to Tarsus, lose a legion to sword and redline it.

I haven't revolted - we are paying net 27gpt to AIs, and we have 252g in bank, so it can cover the cost during anarchy. I suggest the next leader revolt ASAP.

To next leader:

Things look very promising! Most of those AIs are small, and we now have knights.

Just to highlight the plan in case people missed it:

Take London which has Great Library, hold one turn and get all the techs instantly! So do not get Education!

This is England:

It has a perfect shape for bliz attack - I suggest we sign RoP with Sumeria, declare war and then enter the hill NW to London. Let's build at least 15 galleys, include 10 trebs, 5 pike, 15-20 knights/MDIs and we can be sure to capture London. After GA we are still making 78gpt (and after we enter Republic it would be even better) which can be used to rush things.

After holding London for one turn and get the techs, we can conquer the rest of England. France is another target after that, as she has no iron or horses.

Even now we can do research ourselves, but of course we don't need to. Start building libraries when we get ready to take London. With our size we'll beat AI soon.

We should take Hattusas next turn. Next leader can continue to take Hitties out and I suggest doing so.

I haven't started building FP, as it's not really needed now, but we can discuss where to build it. Maybe we want to build it in the other continent.

I also suggest establishing some embassies after revolt.

Good luck! This game is becoming exciting!

CVN1-350AD

 

[microbe]

I believe that we can catch up to the AI using Democracy or even Monarchy as long as we conquer enough land.

Cuivienen, what you said couldn't be truer.

The biggest AI has about 10 cities, while we have 18 and will soon get more than 20.

As long as we can get tech parity it will be a sure win. It's all a matter of successful execution of the GL plan now. Once that's done, we can cheer for the victory.

PS: You are up.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Here's my problem with the GL plan, at least from a quick look at 2:30 am.

England is on the other side of the world. It would be nice if we could sail due east to Liz's doorstep, but our galleys will sink. It will take what, 15, 20 25 turns to get the troops there, after we build them. Even conservatively, you're talking 30+ turns, right? What will the ai know by then? Certainly Nationalism, perhaps even replaceable parts. So now the question is: How many troops will we need to take out the half dozen or so units she'll have defending her city. You guys all know the numbers, Rifles fortified in a city gets a defense of 9 or so, right? Infantry closer to 18? Now if we had 15 or so CAVALRY, or even an army, that might change things a bit .....

So what are the logistics you guys are thinking?

(Hey someone's got to play devil's advocate )

 

[microbe]

Even if they get riflemen, I still think we have a chance. We just need lots of trebuchets. We can establish embassy in London at some point to see how much garrison it has, but I don't estimate too many. Maybe 5-6.

But let's analyze the time more closely.

We need ~12 turns sailing to Sumeria. We probably need 10-15 turns to gather the forces, plus land movement with Sumeria 4 turns. So that's about 25-30 turns. Plus revolt, let's say 35 turns.

We can shorten the time. For example, we can rush units. With our income at Republic I think we can rush a galley and a treb per turn.

We can also use galleys to move knights to Egypt (~7 turns) and from there get to London, with knights' movement we'll move 6 tiles on the road, faster than by sea. But it means we'd have to fight with knights only, not really my favorite, but we can start to deploy some units earlier this way so we can use fewer galleys to move more units.

We need to act fast indeed, but not at the cost of poor preparation. We have to make sure we have enough units to take it out in one turn. We cannot afford to lose.

England isn't scientific, and with 6 cities (two of them are size 2, and a lot of marshes/jungles) it's not going to be very advanced. We have big chance.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

OK, I feel a bit better about it now (haven't had a chance to check out the save).

As I hinted earlier, we could really gamble and go for Mil. Trad. before the GL. Ideally we want to wait as long as we can, w/o losing the ability to take it. While this would make it harder to take, it would also reap the greater reward. What if we build a bunch of trebs/pikes to send from the sea, then drop a garrison of cavs off in Egypt? Then we could move through their land even faster and catch up to our pikes from the other side.

I suppose the breaking point is repl parts (IF they have rubber).

 

[microbe]

Don't worry, AI won't be able to get RP so fast. Once they get to IA their research will be much slower and it will take them 8-10 turns for each tech at the very least. And they tend to research Nationalism line first.

I haven't seen anyone building Newton yet, and I suspect they may not even get to Physics. So it will be a while before the top dog (Egypt/Greece) get to IA.

The bad news, England does have lots of gold (>2K), so she will be able to keep up a little bit. But the gold wouldn't be enough to buy Nationalism so she would have to research it herself.

So indeed we should prepare for riflemen, but as I said with enough units we can still take it out.

Establish embassy to see how many units are there after the revolt. Maybe we don't need 15-20 knights.

And at last: if we get a leader, create an army but don't fill it up! Send it to England and fill up a knight army there. Then we can be sure to take it out. We probably should try this harder.

 

[Cuivienen]

Originally posted by SesnOfWthr
Here's my problem with the GL plan, at least from a quick look at 2:30 am.

England is on the other side of the world. It would be nice if we could sail due east to Liz's doorstep, but our galleys will sink. It will take what, 15, 20 25 turns to get the troops there, after we build them. Even conservatively, you're talking 30+ turns, right? What will the ai know by then? Certainly Nationalism, perhaps even replaceable parts. So now the question is: How many troops will we need to take out the half dozen or so units she'll have defending her city. You guys all know the numbers, Rifles fortified in a city gets a defense of 9 or so, right? Infantry closer to 18? Now if we had 15 or so CAVALRY, or even an army, that might change things a bit .....

So what are the logistics you guys are thinking?

(Hey someone's got to play devil's advocate )

Okay, 15-20 turns to get to and through Sumeria. Another fifteen turns beforehand to get units stockpiled. Not so bad.

In addition, while the big dogs (Egypt, Greece, Sumeria) may be pushing the Industrial Ages, England is relatively small. They may take as many as forty more turns before reaching Nationalism. We definetely have hope.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Just so everyone else doesn't have to go digging like I did ....

Cuivienen - Up (leader farming what's left of the Hittites?)
Andvruss - On Deck (starting the invasion force)
Sesn - after that (won't taste real blood for a while )
Bede - lurking, no doubt
Microbe - Just played (and found our slingshot target)

 

[Cuivienen]

I'm up in practically everything right now. I'll have turns tomorrow. Sorry about the delay, folks.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

That's got to be a Murphy's law that was written just for this game.

I'll watch my games and not play for a week, then come up in all of them in a span of 1 or 2 days.

Damn that Murphy!!

 

[Cuivienen]

Murphy's Law indeed -- my Conquests CD got a bunch of scratches on it from being scraped across the floor by a crazy feline friend/fiend. Guess I need to go buy a new one, and soon. Until then, I'm out. I'll probably have a new CD next weekend. Blue Laws prevents stores around here from being open Sundays.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Originally posted by Cuivienen
Murphy's Law indeed -- my Conquests CD got a bunch of scratches on it from being scraped across the floor by a crazy feline friend/fiend.

I hate cats!! Pompous little furbags!

Originally posted by Cuivienen
I'll probably have a new CD next weekend. Blue Laws prevents stores around here from being open Sundays.

And here I thought MA had some crazy blue laws. Until recently the packie couldn't be open on Sundays. In NJ NOTHING can be open?? That kinda bites it.

I guess that means its Andvruss now.

 

[microbe]

Sorry to hear that Cuivienen. Fortunately conquests is cheap..if you get it this week you can still chime in instead of being skipped. The next 30-40 turns are vital and I hope when things come back to me we will be the tech lead.

Andvruss you are up.

 

[Cuivienen]

Originally posted by SesnOfWthr
I hate cats!! Pompous little furbags!



And here I thought MA had some crazy blue laws. Until recently the packie couldn't be open on Sundays. In NJ NOTHING can be open?? That kinda bites it.

I guess that means its Andvruss now.

Its not NJ, its my county in particular. We're the "shopping county" for NYC, so, to cut down on traffic and give the people in Paramus (the mall town) a break occasionally, everything except restaurants, grocery stores and a couple of other things are closed on Sundays.

Don't hate cats, cats are your freinds. I love my cat, even after he destroyed my CD. Cats are the coolest.