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D+3 Classic SG: The Future Roman Superpower

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by TheViking, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    I was pushing for the newest tech before talking with them. It turns out we needed it to get their map. I didn't spell it all out in the log but they refused to share maps the first request, I gifted them Mysticism, then they traded maps.
     
  2. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    Guys - I'm so sorry that I've not checked in. Thought I would not have a turn opportunity for a while and I've been traveling a great deal as well. I'm afraid my scheduling and traveling will continue, so I'll try to at least chime in even though I won't have a chance to play for a while. Once I'm settled a bit, I'll see what's what.
     
  3. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    OK - when you can play just let us know, the playing order can always be modified to suit those who are busy :).

    I will play later today or tomorrow unless Old n Slow appears before then.

    If anyone reading this is interested in joining the game it's not too late - it would be nice to add one or two players.
     
  4. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    I have now finished playing and will post a log later today or tomorrow. Some teasers:

    * Changes in foreign relations
    * A risky decision towards the end of my reign that I decided not to leave to my successor :D
    * Capitals got moved
    * Camels have appeared
    * Expansion
    * Three new techs
    * Celebrations. Where?
     
  5. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    I'm back -- thanks for the messages. I'll take the next turn as soon as the Viking posts his stuff.
     
  6. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    One new city founded, another one should soon be founded, celebrations in some of our cities, an alliance with the Germans, trade gifted to the Germans, some new territory explored, trade, construction and philosophy discovered/acquired, several camels under construction and one headed for Rome.

    1750 BC (0): Luxuries -> 40% to fix the civil disorder everywhere without hiring Elvii.

    1700 BC (1): Start researching trade (Construction, HBR, Literacy, Math were offered). Antium unexpectedly still in disorder, hire an Elvis. The Germans are enthusiastic but decline an alliance, probably because we don't have anything to offer them. Science -> 60%, Tax 0%, want trade ASAP.

    1650 BC (2): Germans start pyramids.

    1600 BC (3): Cumae reaches size 3 and revolts, forgot to check for this on the previous turn. City of Pompeii founded, needs an Elvis.

    1550 BC (4): Cumae celebrates (!!). We are now no. 3 in population (!!?).

    1500 BC (5): Veii reaches size 3 and celebrates (!!).

    1450 BC (6): Germans discover philosophy.

    1400 BC (7): Trade discovered, start researching construction. Keep science at maximum to have something to give to the Germans to get an alliance.

    1350 BC (8): Nothing to note.

    1300 BC (9): Nothing to note.

    1250 BC (10): Nothing to note.

    1200 BC (11): Neapolis reaches size 3 and celebrates. Rome build settlers, shrinks to size 1 and revolts.

    1150 BC (12): Persian capital moved to Arbela. Interesting. The Indians have started building the Hanging Gardens. The Germans have nearly completed the pyramids. Aztec capital moved to Texcoco. What's going on with the AI civs? Barbs? Construction discovered. Three lousy choices: HBR, Pottery and Warrior Code. HBR selected since it's on the tech path to monotheism. Tax->50%, sci 10%. Not talking to the Germans since at the moment I don't want to give trade to them.

    1100 BC (13): Germans build pyramids and change projects from pyramids to colossus. Aztecs: pyramids -> HG.

    1050 BC (14): Nothing to note.

    1000 BC (15): Tax->60% (was 50%), Sci->0%. Talk to the Germans, give trade to them, resulting in an alliance. Risky but I'm hoping for some $$ as gifts to speed up caravan production. Request a gift: Philosophy.



    I think getting MPE ASAP is the highest priority at the moment. Gifting the Germans trade in exchange for an alliance was very risky but I was hoping for some gifts, especially cash but also techs we can use for tech exchanges as soon as we get MPE. We need four caravans to finish MPE. One is already moving towards Rome which is probably the safest location for wonders and also fairly central within our empire. Speaking of safe locations, maybe we should found a city N or NE of Rome to reduce the danger of barbs near Rome.

    My plan with the settlers is to found a city at (91,15) (possibly a great location for ships).

    We should possibly move the phalanx farther south, follow it up with settlers and expand towards the Germans. The diplomat is simply exploring.

    I'm very surprised that on turn 12 both the Aztecs and the Persians moved their capitals. I'm not sure what this means but if we want a challenging game this might be bad news (99 barbs?). Maybe Kev has to return in the form of a new Loki :D. Interestingly, Duke's log reveals that the Germans also moved their capital. Does anyone know under which conditions the AI moves its capitals?

    Once we don't need camels for wonders we should ship some of them to our enemies (the Germans are the obvious target even though they share the island/continent with us).

    Additional note: I suggest we do not reveal the results of black clicking here. As a matter of fact I don't like black clicking but not allowing it is probably impossible (and not everyone may agree with this anyway).

    Old n Slow plays next (this is a change from the playing order since he has just returned).
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    The AI moves their capitals when it feels it has nothing else of value/use to build.
     
  8. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    We had a Capital moving discussion a few years back -- a couple of other factors may include having a few cities; wonder if wonder building or the desire to build a wonder (but the techs aren't there) may affect it as well.

    Have the save & will look at it tomorrow night.
     
  9. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Old n Slow takes the helm -- ever wary of barbs, we of course move out slowly...

    1000 BC Az & Per move capitals
    975BC Az completes HG
    950 BC Change some Cit; WL in Ant. Pop = 300K
    925 BC Spend down to 8 coins, tickling the Growth of camels
    900 BC Cumae & Ant breed a camel each.
    875 BC Found Pisae -- Will be in an uproar for the next 200 years.
    850 BC Rome begets a camel -- cash in 4 (Ind completes Col, other change.) WL ends in Cumae (size 4)
    825 BC Rome completes MPE (Ger abandon)

    Status: Rome (3S) 7C, 13T, $90, Mon.
    Japan (1S) 4C, 10T, $299, Despo [HBR, IW, Pot,WC,Whe] res: ?
    Germany (6S) 6C, 19T, $140, Mon [HBR, Lit, Mth, Pot, Sea, WC, Whe] res: Con
    Aztec (4S) 7C, 14T, $206, Despo [HBR, IW, Pot, Sea, WC] res: Con
    Persia (0S) 6C, 10T, $196, Despo, [--], res: ?
    Cart (2S) 7C, 8T, $380, Despo [HBR, Poly] res: Map, {-->GW}
    Ind (5S) 6C, 12 T, $282, Mon [HBR, IW, Poly, Pot, WC] res: Sea

    Our ally, Germany is Enthu, the rest are Icy.
    Do the great trading round -- Get maps from all, but only an ally with Japan; no gifts. Spent the treasury down below 50 coins so the initial contact was always a request for a tech. I have the trade by trade details, but the upshot is that we gained Poly, HBR, IW, Sea, Whe, & Lit & gave out whatever anyone asked for. Usually a knowledge exchange came with a bump of feeling (one time I didn't see it) and usually the gift of knowledge came with two bumps of feeling, so I opted for gifts as much as possible. Germany closed the conversation after one trade, which they continued to do throughout my reign.

    800 BC Cumae goes into an uproar. Reset the tax toggle to 5.4.1
    775 BC (Germany starts GL; Az now a Mon.) Choose Mono to research over BB, Eng, Mth. Swap IW for Mth with Germany
    750 BC Cumae pops out a settler, Upset again) Swith tax toggle to 1.4.5
    725 BC (Germany at war with Carts) Nea pops out a food camel (when I "know" that the camel is for a wonder I often force the choice reserving the commodities for later), cumae back in style with a WL Start the Pha south to see where the Roman/German border lies.
    700BC (Pers starts LH; Ger discovers Rep) Veii pops out a settler and the citizens respond as expected.
    675 BC (Ger abandons GL; Ind discvoers Sea, starts GL) Pisae, now size 2 reset the citizens. Contacnt Germany (oops they want 50 coins; we comply, we get a gift of 75 -- out of time.)
    650 BC (Ger starts GL; Az discovers Lit & aquires BB; carts discover Myst, start/complete LH & switch to OR (Pers switch to GW) Our southern Dip is sent home.
    625 BC --the units have moved, but the diplomacy is still available.

    We have 102 coins (recommend a spend down before conversation) -- Pot & WC are still out there, Ger has Rep, Az has BB; Ind is four turns into GL, Ger is two; Pers & Cart have started GW & OR -- whcih may affect trading. Maps are dated 825 BC --never got a German map (always something more important to ask for.) We started 4th in pop and have drpooed to 6th, but we have a couple of settlers out -- my plan is to have these guys road a bit, then head south to firm up the German border -- perhaps along the river just north of Munich. Hopefully the recalled Dip & Pha can establish a line until the settlers arrive.

    And surprisingly, the barbs didn't show.
     
  10. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Looking great, nice set of turns. I'm even getting a bit worried this will be as easy as last time - I'm a bit surprised the AI civs aren't bigger. Perhaps Kev needs to return as the (in)famous Loki :D.

    Seems our number one priority now is to get Monotheism and Mike's Cathedral ASAP and switch to republic for increased trade. Another priority is sending caravans to our enemies, preferably overseas.

    Now we have finished the first 'round'. This means that Tim plays next. I think we should now switch to 10 turns per player instead of 15.
     
  11. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Oops, I didn't realize it was my turn again. Right now, I would prefer any "civ-time" to be spent trying to finish the already belated GOTM70, so if someone wants to jump ahead of me, I wouldn't mind.
     
  12. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    If Tim cannot play now Sharkbait can play the next 10 turns now. If not, we can wait a bit until Tim can play.
     
  13. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    I'm currently a bit pressed for time as well, so am happy to wait until Tim is ready. But if I get some spare time I'll jump in.
     
  14. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    I was able to play my turns. I will try to write it up soon.
     
  15. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Goal is to finish Mikes. No one is really a threat to it any time soon (nobody even researching mono, few have both prereqs), but I've got to have something to strive for in 10 turns. I probably can't finish, but if I don't it will be ready for the next player

    And this time, I have the right city.txt file for the normal aztec names

    625bc(Turn 0)-Tweak workers and tax rates with Mike in mind.
    - tax 2/5/3
    - Diplomacy - we are inadequate (2 below us, 4 above us).
    - talk to germans(6 spears) they want 100g. P'shaw! (They are enthusiastic. Ignore their demands) Ask for a gift? 75g.
    - Dang, japan(1) is below us.
    - iprb 2s in Cumae, Veii, 4s in Antium, 6s in Pisae
    - Persians (0) - give wheel, get alliance., update maps
    - Indians (5) - alliance for wheel again. Update maps.
    - hire extra elvis in neapolis to be safe with 4th citizen about to pop.
    - start neapolis on a trireme - it will not produce one of our Mike's vans.
    600(1)-aztecs acquire wheel
    - Germans want to talk to phalanx when he activates - War with carthage? No. demand 100g? No.Gift? 50g.
    - Neapolis - size 4 - will lose WLTKD with less than 2 elvii.
    - Phalanx withdraws from german city.
    - iprb 7s in pisae, 6s in veii
    575(2)-German gov't overthrown (R)
    - rush 7s in pisae, 4s in antium, 6s in Cumae, veii
    - Germans below 50g, so no begging. They still bluff about the 100g (still enthusiastic, so we decline). Exchange polytheism for Republic
    - Carthage(3) is only cordial. We feel the need to butter them up some. Break german alliance? No. wheel? Sure. share maps
    - work more shields in cumae, giving up celebration.
    550(3)-Persians develop math, abandon great wall,
    - Indians acquire engineering
    - wltid cancelled in cumae
    - Rome Dye
    - wltid in rome
    - Pop > 400k
    - rush 6 in cumae, veii, 7 in pisae,
    - REVOLUTION
    - tax 0/4/6
    525(4)-Japan acquires engineering
    - Ship pounds cartaginian Cartenna
    - Aztecs start GL, persians start GW
    - Republic established
    - tax 3/4/3 to get through final rushbuys - making 15g and 20b per turn
    - rush 6s in cumae, 8s in pisae, 6s in rome, 5s in antium, or something like that.
    - Japan (0) down to cordial, give republic
    - Germans over 50g, but not giving.
    500(5)-Happiest: Ger,Ind,Azt,Car,Per,ROMANS,Jap
    - Pisae Dye
    - Disorder: Pisae. Pompeii. Oops, misplaced a worker
    - Pompeii Silk
    - WLTCD in Neapolis, veii (wasted - no food) forgot to fire elvises
    - Cumae low on food
    - Antium silk, disorder
    - fix worker alignment like I should have last turn.
    - rush 6s in cumae, 5s in rome.
    - tax 1/5/4
    - Update german maps
    475(6)-Order restored/wltcd ended
    - Cumae dye
    - Veii silk
    - We are weak now. Crap tech rate went up.
    - Japan (0) give math, myst. Tech rate back down.
    - Too soon to beg from persians. They must be #3 now.
    - put everyone available on ocean, set tax 0/6/4 to max research.
    - rb 5s in rome
    450(7)-rush 5s in rome, down to 20g in treasury.
    425(8)-Germans develop astronomy, change from GL to Copernicus
    - barbs move in on japanese.
    - 4 vans arrive at rome, but research is one turn away
    400(9)-Carthage develops pottery
    - Indians acquire feudalism (note to self: Don't beg from india)
    - Monotheism -> Astronomy (with intention of trading with germans - then heading toward magellan)
    - Rome silk
    - 8 Vans dumped into Michaelangelo.
    - work a few more shield/food producing squares now that monotheism is done.
    - We are pathetic! (and more than 8 turns from when new alliances formed.
    - Persia(2): gift? 50g
    - Japan(1): ignore various demands because they're still enthused. Gift? 50g.
    - stay away from indians for fear of getting feudalism
    - try germans(6) again? 50g.
    375(10)-Japan beats up on a barb legion
    - Rome builds Michaelangelo's Chapel
    - WLTCD in Rome. Other size 3+ cities are set up to start celebrating next turn if desired (Neapolis requires an elvis at size 4)
    - persians(0) oh, they now dropped to pathetic. Update maps.
    - Japan(2): ignore the usual demands. 50g
    - Germany(6) ignore usual demands. gift? Astronomy.

    What do you know, I made it!

    We are in position to grow our cities a bit with celebrations. However this will likely be enough to move us up the power rankings, limiting our gifting opportunities from our allies.

    We have already moved back up to weak due to cash infusion last turn. With more gifts this turn, we may go up to inadequate. You could maybe spend the treasury down to try to be pathetic again for more begging, but not if we start celebration growth. (rome will grow next turn, others in 2 turns if left as-is). Personally, I would NOT beg from the Indians any time soon as they have Feudalism, and we still desperately need the warrior slot for rushbuying. It's too high a risk that they might give us tech instead of gold, and feudalism would really suck.

    Settlers have Go orders to their proposed city sites. One along river near Germans as a boundary (where phlx and dip are sitting). The other at 3 special site half-way down the coast.

    You have a small treasury to use as you see fit. You could work towards settlers for expansion as the cities celebrate, or put up a few Markets and Harbors to further spur celebration growth. Consider vans and boats as well, if you can figure out where to send them.

    Since we just got Astronomy from the germans, you should get a choice of techs to research next. I would aim toward Navigation so we can get Magellan and better boats, but that's up to the next player. I'm not sure what choices will be hidden or available - I haven't been using my tech tracker on this game because all I was going for was monotheism.

    One thing to note, we have crossed the tech #20 threshold where tech prices go way up, so it will take many turns (or some delivery bonuses) to get the next tech.

    View attachment CA_B375.SAV

    PS: I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong when I attach files so I don't get the little attachment box with the count of downloads and such.
     
  16. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    I'm suffering from the internet troubles caused by the Taiwan earthquake. I have played my turns and will try and post the log and file as soon as I can. :D
     
  17. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    Managed to get onto the site from home at last! Have been able to get in occasionally from work but haven't got the file here. Here's the save - write up at work so will post when there (or earlier if I can get into my hotmail account):

    Summary - Magellan can be built next turn. No trade yet. Next player can expand and get trade going.
     

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  18. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    I was having trouble with my internet connection here in Hong Kong (apparently related to the Taiwan earthquake) so didn’t read Tim’s write up before playing. What little I did read when downloading the file mentioned Navigation and Magellan, and my view of the map made this my top priority. I thought about going for a bunch of settlers, but the Germans had both prerequisites (but are studying Banking, though I don’t know how far down the track they are), and I would hate to miss out to them.

    Therefore my main aim is Magellan (so 8 vans as we have none currently), followed by some settlers and expansion if time allows. The ocean gap to the west is a minimum of 4 spaces, so I decide not to try and use trade to get to Nav, but to focus on science and building the 8 vans. Therefore for most of the time I have a lot of workers on ocean tiles to get the maximum science available. This made for quick turns also, which was good as I am bit pressed for time. So here is what happened in about 1 hour of real time (maybe my haste will help make the challenge a bit harder for them in following turns).

    -375 (0) - I see that our cities are about to celebrate, but dropping luxuries to 30% puts 4 in disorder, so I leave it at this and decide to try begging for some gold. So I leave TSL at 0/60/40. I visit the Indians and get 100g as a gift. Thanks v much. Rome production changed to van, Neapolis also changed to a van (as I don’t want to risk a trireme across the sea). I do some buying of shields.

    Japan govt overthrown, Germans nearly finished Copes.

    -350 (1) – Pottery chosen as next tech as Nav not available. Visit Indians, swap Republic for Pottery, get 125g as gift. Bit more rush buying of shields. Cities are celebrating but it won’t last and I won’t chase it.

    Japan learns Writing, goes Republic. Berlin builds Copes, Aztecs learn Republic.

    -325 (2) – Navigation selected as tech to study. 572 beakers needed! Currently making 46 per turn now. 50g from Indians, and also from Japan and Persia.

    Ravenna founded at (81,31). Worker put on wine and is happy (red anywhere else).

    Persians learn Engineering, start KRC. Carths nearly done on Oracle.

    -300 (3) – 6 vans now made, making way to Rome. Population 700k,

    25g from Indians, nothing from Japanese and Persians. We’re Inadequate in the power ratings now. Producing 51 beakers per turn. Approx one third the way to Nav. Production focus now changed to 3 vans, 4 settlers..

    Hispalis founded on southern spot where phalanx and dip fortified. Worker unhappy when on wheat, so moved to shielded river GL and its happy.

    33g in bank – not spent.

    Japanese starts KRC and nearly completes it, Carthage builds oracle. Indian govt overthrown.

    -275 (4) – Disorder in Pompeii due to growth. Worker moved from GL to ocean, and city will start to celebrate. 25g from Indians.

    Osaka builds KRC, Persians change to GW. Indians go Republic.

    -250 (5) – About half way to Navigation. Try Germans for a gift and get 25g.

    -225 (6) – Indians give us all their 50g! Muahaha! Another 25g from the Germans.158g in the bank as I haven’t been spending lately.

    Carths learn Mathematics.

    -200 (7) – RB some of Veii van. 104 g left.

    The Germans come calling – I refuse their demand for Mono and 100g, then swap maps and I leave.

    -175 (8) – Nothing much.

    -150 (9) – Veii van produced, heads to Rome.

    Germans develop Banking.

    -125 (10) – NAVIGATION -> Physics chosen (over Banking, Bridge Building, Engineering and University). All 8 vans are outside Rome ready to be contributed to Magellan next turn – 2 of them just made it there so it can’t be finished this turn.

    TSL is still set to 0/60/40, but maybe the next player will want to reduce the science and get some cash flowing to build boats and vans so our empire can start trading and exploring.

    I totally ignored tech gifting, and only traded once when I needed to make Navigation available. I have been begging but it has been getting harder as our power rating has risen.
     
  19. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Holy cow. Just out of curiosity, I went back to compare to our last game. In that one, we hadn't even completed Marco Polo by 125. This time we've already got MPE, Mike's and almost completed Magellan!

    We're getting too good at this. I think we need a visit from Loki, or something like that.
     
  20. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Yes, very impressive. It will be interesting to see what happens but I'm starting to worry I didn't make the game challenging enough although Loki might fix that problem :D. I'm a bit surprised that the AI civs are not bigger and also that the Mongol and Aztec civs have split into to geographically distinct provinces.

    Old n Slow plays next.
     

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