D.C. Circuit guts ObamaCare

[DinoDoc]

Dicing down your sample works as well as dicing out parts of a statute. Michael Moore, for example, is a master of this.

At any point in the legislative process, can you show me any evidence whatsoever that the program was popular with the American people? Scott Brown was campaigning as "Mr. 41" for God's sake. In Massachusetts of all places.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well they could have bowed to the will of the people and scrapped it.

In 2008, nearly 97% of the voters voted for a Presidential candidate that had massive healthcare reforms in his platform. That a group of people suddenly shouted 'no reforms' doesn't change that.

 

[DinoDoc]

The largest single purchaser of health care services in the US is the US. Between the aging population becoming eligible for assistance and the same aging population coming to need greater care the existing system was going to bankrupt the country (which isn't exactly flush to begin with). This is such an obvious cloud in our future that it was pointed out by the NIXON ADMINISTRATION and all your people 'satisfied with the status quo' ignored it for forty frickin' years.

The reform most people wanted was something that reduced costs and not something that reformed insurance coverage most people were satisfied with. The people involved in writing Obamacare pointedly ignored that.

 

[onejayhawk]

The reform most people wanted was something that reduced costs and not something that reformed insurance coverage most people were satisfied with. The people involved in writing Obamacare pointedly ignored that.

ACA is definitely a cure that is worse than the disease. That said, people want to eat the Big Mac and still have it for lunch the next day.

J

 

[DinoDoc]

In 2008, nearly 97% of the voters voted for a Presidential candidate that had massive healthcare reforms in his platform. That a group of people suddenly shouted 'no reforms' doesn't change that.

At no time since it has been polled (going back to 2009) has Obamacare been popular with the American people. It seems they did in fact change their mind.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

At any point in the legislative process, can you show me any evidence whatsoever that the program was popular with the American people? Scott Brown was campaigning as "Mr. 41" for God's sake. In Massachusetts of all places.

The republicans ran in 2012 with 'Obamacare must go' as a focal point...notice they didn't win. Obama ran in 2008 with reforming the healthcare system that everyone knew was broken as a major point of his campaign...notice he did win.

The bottom line is that no matter how much effort goes into playing up dissatisfaction with the ACA the people actually won't forget that while it isn't perfect it was necessary. So the whole 'this must go and I have no idea what to replace it with' campaign is glaringly hollow and voters know it. If the republicans don't come up with something in the nature of a solution to something they are doomed.

While they beat the drum against the ACA no one forgets that they had no solution to offer at all. While they beat the drum against Obama's economic principles no one forgets that republican economic principles (which they haven't abandoned) led to the crash of 2008 so they are no solution. While they beat the drum about Obama not getting out of Iraq fast enough or Afghanistan fast enough no one forgets that republican sponsored neo-con theory (which they haven't abandoned) got us into those places in the first place so the republicans aren't offering any solution to that.

If your only message is 'the other side is bad' you can't win when all the other side has to do is point out that you are demonstrably worse.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The reform most people wanted was something that reduced costs and not something that reformed insurance coverage most people were satisfied with. The people involved in writing Obamacare pointedly ignored that.

As is always the case the reform 'most people wanted' was pie in the sky, with ice cream. Since no one could deliver that, they got the ACA.

 

[sophie]

Well they could have bowed to the will of the people and scrapped it.

Yeah, scrapped it and replaced it with the public option, which is what a plurality of voters actually wanted.

 

[Farm Boy]

At no time since it has been polled (going back to 2009) has Obamacare been popular with the American people. It seems they did in fact change their mind.

Seems like getting a statute-changing majority shouldn't be an issue then. So why all the effort going into using judicial activism to rewrite the meaning through the least democratic option?

 

[JollyRoger]

There's a reason 2010 happened after all.

There's a reason 2012 happened after all.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Seems like getting a statute-changing majority shouldn't be an issue then. So why all the effort going into using judicial activism to rewrite the meaning through the least democratic option?

Because a statute changing majority would have to have something to change it to, and the people demanding the ACA be 'gotten rid of' are completely bankrupt in the ideas department.

 

[DinoDoc]

Seems like getting a statute-changing majority shouldn't be an issue then. So why all the effort going into using judicial activism to rewrite the meaning through the least democratic option?

It isn't activism. It's following the letter of the law.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It isn't activism. It's following the letter of the law.

And doesn't change that the people behind it are totally devoid of ideas beyond tearing down, putting the courts in a position where they will have no choice but to legislate from the bench if they do tear down the statute because they can't leave a vacuum.

 

[DinoDoc]

And doesn't change that the people behind it are totally devoid of ideas beyond tearing down, putting the courts in a position where they will have no choice but to legislate from the bench if they do tear down the statute because they can't leave a vacuum.

It's not the place of the Courts to rewrite legislation in order to save it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not the place of the Courts to rewrite legislation in order to save it.

Absolutely. It is congress that is supposed to write legislation. When they flatly refuse it creates a vacuum. Into that vacuum all sorts of problems are drawn. If the court strikes down a statute what do you expect to happen? We just let that aspect of governance go lawless? Guess again. Some sort of executive order is required to fill the void. Or the court has to provide 'guidance' on how their decision can be accommodated withing the framework of remaining law.

Because congress refuses to do their job so someone has to do it as best they can.

 

[DinoDoc]

Because congress refuses to do their job so someone has to do it as best they can.

No one else under our system of governance has that authority. What are you afraid of anyway? Removing subsidies from the federal exchanges that shouldn't have had them to begin with doesn't repeal Obamacare.

 

[onejayhawk]

Yeah, scrapped it and replaced it with the public option, which is what a plurality of voters actually wanted.

Polling does not support this statement.

J

 

[onejayhawk]

Because congress refuses to do their job so someone has to do it as best they can.

That way lies dictatorship. For the public's good, of course.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No one else under our system of governance has that authority. What are you afraid of anyway? Removing subsidies from the federal exchanges that shouldn't have had them to begin with doesn't repeal Obamacare.

That would actually be why congress really needs to get busy doing their job, wouldn't it? Because yeah, as JayHawk points out having someone do it for them is the path to dictatorship.

By the way, you were the one who described this as 'guts Obamacare'. If you remember right that was my first question, how you were inflating this little detail into 'gutting', other than wishful thinking.

 

[onejayhawk]

That would actually be why congress really needs to get busy doing their job, wouldn't it? Because yeah, as JayHawk points out having someone do it for them is the path to dictatorship.

By the way, you were the one who described this as 'guts Obamacare'. If you remember right that was my first question, how you were inflating this little detail into 'gutting', other than wishful thinking.

Poor recall there.

J