Dangerous Hunting - Epic animal fights!

[jshetley]

First of all, you're in the modmod section here, it is intended to be a module for players which would find it fun and noone ever talked about making it a standard part of C2C. You're entirely free not to like it and I'm perfectly fine with it not being to everyone's taste, but you do not have to voice it in a disrespectful manner.

Regarding your issues, I'm really surprised that you have so much trouble with animals in the base C2C; even with this modmod I'd never lose more than a 3-4 units tops to a difficult fight (and hunter units cost has been toned down to take in account those casualties). If you're having troubles while the AI civs do not, maybe the cause is in your playstyle, not in the game mechanics? Are you using chasers/trackers/hunters to take down animals? They have a huge bonus vs. animals and are much better for that than any other unit. Also you may want to build the Hunting Instructions building to give all your units a bonus against animals.

I see why you were surprised I was having trouble with barbarian animals. I just started a game with size matters for the first time and did not lose anything except for my original stone thrower which I split up into 3 parts. I may try this mod out later and see how I can handle it with size matters and fight or flight turned on.

 

[Faustmouse]

I tried both the dangerous hunting mod mod and the early tweaks at the same time.

Did you edit the Master Hunter line of units (only have Master Tracker so far) as well? Because my Master Tracker had no problem at all against all animals. It hat 2 additional promotions and had a 98.7% against a Grizzly which was on a forest on the other side of a river Combined with the increased hunting outcome this is quite powerful since you can kill 1-3 animals per turn and subdue ~50% of them. They are also teleported back to my city (not sure why, is it caused by your mod mod?) I have a size 3 city by now with nothing left to build and I'm about to research Soft Hammer Percussion

My Chasers had a hard time against some animals, but everything up to Mooses (2.88 combat in SM) was no problemo for them.

 

[Rwn]

I tried both the dangerous hunting mod mod and the early tweaks at the same time.

Be careful, you probably don't want to use "Higher cost of number of cities" (which probably doesn't work well with the new civics from Toffer90) and "Profitable Hunting" (which is already integrated in a better way in this modmod).

Did you edit the Master Hunter line of units (only have Master Tracker so far) as well? Because my Master Tracker had no problem at all against all animals. It hat 2 additional promotions and had a 98.7% against a Grizzly which was on a forest on the other side of a river Combined with the increased hunting outcome this is quite powerful since you can kill 1-3 animals per turn and subdue ~50% of them. They are also teleported back to my city (not sure why, is it caused by your mod mod?) I have a size 3 city by now with nothing left to build and I'm about to research Soft Hammer Percussion

My Chasers had a hard time against some animals, but everything up to Mooses (2.88 combat in SM) was no problemo for them.

You've downloaded with v. 1.01 right?

It's expected that animals under 3 str don't present real challenges even to chasers (though they can be mildly dangerous to weak regular units or against a weakened chaser, and many weak ones will easily flee).

For Master Tracker, they are indeed designed to have a much better chance of survival than regular hunters (you're sacrificing a Great Hunter afterall), but they shouldn't be so good. That's also probably why you got so much food and hammers... I improved them a bit following an improvement of the base units, I'll revert some changes.

Animals shouldn't teleport with the last update similar to what Dancing Hoskuld did (they didn't last time I play with this modmod), I'll look to find what's wrong.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Faustmouse]

I downloaded it from the link in the first post about 10-12 hours ago.

Chasers die from time to time against Mooses so that's great

However, I think it's not only the high combat bonuses against Animals that Master Trackers get, but also a matterof their subdue chance. When you can butcher an animal in your city instead of killing it while fighting, you get so much more food and hammers out of it 60 Food and 60 Hammers for a single animal (can remember which but was probably a Moose) is extreme if you get 1 or 2 every turn But it definetly does put the focus on hunting in the early time
If this is a matter of the profitable hunting then I will turn it off, ty!



I also have no idea why they are teleported back The game I started yesterday morning worked as intendet: I had to escort them until I hit Sed. Lifestyle, from there on they where teleported to my nearest city. Is there an option I might checked "by accident"?

 

[Faustmouse]

I deleted the better hunting outcome file in the Dangerous Hunting mod, but still a Grizzly gave 90 Food and 90 Hammers
Hmm... an Opossoum gave only 3 and when I butchered it in the city while a sabertooth in the wild gave 1 3 or so.

I'm pretty sure that animals spawned with your betterOutcomes installed are stille OP; all newly spawned animals should be fine. I'll keep an eye on this.

Edit:

Hmm... I cleared an area so there should be only freshly spawned animals... But their outcome is still in the 50+ charts. Only exceptions are Lizards, Possums and the Glyptodon. They all yield less than a Pidgeon

Ground Sloth as well.

I didn't clear the cache after deleting your file (I don't know how). Could this be the problem?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I also have no idea why they are teleported back The game I started yesterday morning worked as intendet: I had to escort them until I hit Sed. Lifestyle, from there on they where teleported to my nearest city. Is there an option I might checked "by accident"?

The new mechanism has them needing to be lead back until Sed Lifestyle then they teleport. It is a balance between reducing exploration and micromanagement.

 

[Faustmouse]

The new mechanism has them needing to be lead back until Sed Lifestyle then they teleport. It is a balance between reducing exploration and micromanagement.

Yes I know that and it worked fine in my game yesterday (newest SVN), yet it stopped working when I installed RWN's modmods and early tweaks and dangerous hunting. Now they are teleported back all the time and I don't know if it's because of his mod mods or because I used an option in this new game that messed things up... Do you think a safefile might help?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes I know that and it worked fine in my game yesterday (newest SVN), yet it stopped working when I installed RWN's modmods and early tweaks and dangerous hunting. Now they are teleported back all the time and I don't know if it's because of his mod mods or because I used an option in this new game that messed things up... Do you think a safefile might help?

No, I think it may be a simple XML error in the animal folder but in every animal. Rwn should be able to fix it.

It turns out that neither my brother's old machine nor my laptop are good enough to run C2C so I can't try out these new mods.

 

[Rwn]

I deleted the better hunting outcome file in the Dangerous Hunting mod, but still a Grizzly gave 90 Food and 90 Hammers
Hmm... an Opossoum gave only 3 and when I butchered it in the city while a sabertooth in the wild gave 1 3 or so.

I'm pretty sure that animals spawned with your betterOutcomes installed are stille OP; all newly spawned animals should be fine. I'll keep an eye on this.

Edit:

Hmm... I cleared an area so there should be only freshly spawned animals... But their outcome is still in the 50+ charts. Only exceptions are Lizards, Possums and the Glyptodon. They all yield less than a Pidgeon

Ground Sloth as well.

I didn't clear the cache after deleting your file (I don't know how). Could this be the problem?

The values you're mentioning are way off, I'm really confused Even in the BetterOutcome file (which gives too good rewards) a grizzly doesn't yield as much, even when subdued and butchered in a city. The only animal which could possibly reach in the 50 are Elephants. Glyptodons should be more profitable that pidgeons. I checked again the teleport thing, I can't see anything wrong in the code. And the rewards are often randomized so having you mention multiples of 5 makes me think there's a bad interaction left with the Profitable Hunting files (I'm going to delete those, they are effectively superseded by this modmod),

Are you sure you no longer have the following file in the My_Mods/Dangerous_Animals folder?
Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml
Subdue_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml
Animal files from the modmod are called:
NewSubduedAnimals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml
NewAnimals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml

Maybe clear you cache also... Animals that were spawned before you removed the files should still be bugged though.

For the Master Tracker, I'll look into that.

 

[Faustmouse]

The values you're mentioning are way off, I'm really confused Even in the BetterOutcome file (which gives too good rewards) a grizzly doesn't yield as much, even when subdued and butchered in a city. The only animal which could possibly reach in the 50 are Elephants. Glyptodons should be more profitable that pidgeons. I checked again the teleport thing, I can't see anything wrong in the code. And the rewards are often randomized so having you mention multiples of 5 makes me think there's a bad interaction left with the Profitable Hunting files (I'm going to delete those, they are effectively superseded by this modmod),

Are you sure you no longer have the following file in the My_Mods/Dangerous_Animals folder?
Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml
Subdue_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml
Animal files from the modmod are called:
NewSubduedAnimals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml
NewAnimals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml

Maybe clear you cache also... Animals that were spawned before you removed the files should still be bugged though.

For the Master Tracker, I'll look into that.

In the Dangerous Animals folder I have (beside the Schema)

DangerousHunting_CIV4PromotionInfos
NewHunters_CIV4UnitInfos

I had the New_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml as well so I deleted these and will take a look.

In the early tweaks modmod I have:

Animals_CIV4UnitInfos
EarlyBuildingsLowMaint_CIV4BuildingInfos
LowerGranaries_CIV4BuildingInfos
Mythmodifiers_CIV4BuildingInfos
Slowerprod_CIV4GameSpeedInfo
Subdue_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos
WeakerEarlySneak_CIV4UnitClassInfos
WeakerEarlySneak_CIV4UnitInfos

and three (Building, GameInfo and Unit) Schemas.

 

[Rwn]

In the Dangerous Animals folder I have (beside the Schema)

DangerousHunting_CIV4PromotionInfos
NewHunters_CIV4UnitInfos

I had the New_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml as well so I deleted these and will take a look.

You're missing many files! You should have 9 files from the .7z (7 files + 2 schemas)
edit: 11 files (8 + 3 schema) in 1.02

In the early tweaks modmod I have:

Animals_CIV4UnitInfos
EarlyBuildingsLowMaint_CIV4BuildingInfos
LowerGranaries_CIV4BuildingInfos
Mythmodifiers_CIV4BuildingInfos
Slowerprod_CIV4GameSpeedInfo
Subdue_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos
WeakerEarlySneak_CIV4UnitClassInfos
WeakerEarlySneak_CIV4UnitInfos

and three (Building, GameInfo and Unit) Schemas.

Here you should delete Animals_CIV4UnitInfos and Subdue_Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is either the animals or new_animals XML file that would contain the code for the teleport/not teleport but the stuff in the normal XML file is wrong also. I thought I had fixed it before I came over. It will have to wait until I get back to my modding machine.

 

[Rwn]

It is either the animals or new_animals XML file that would contain the code for the teleport/not teleport but the stuff in the normal XML file is wrong also. I thought I had fixed it before I came over. It will have to wait until I get back to my modding machine.

The early tweaks were done before you changed the teleport, so it's normal it does not work. Dangerous Animals files should have the correct behavior though.

What is wrong in the normal XML?

 

[Rwn]

Updated to 1.02
- Toned down a bit the Master Hunter units and late hunter units
- Lowered capture chance from Master Hunter units and from a few promotions. Increased it for Ensnarement.

Base capture chance is the same, only experienced units shouldn't capture so often. Also if you want to maximize your capture chance, you should now pick to Ensnarement (+10% capture chance vs. +5% for hunter promos, but you don't have the additional bonus against animals from hunter promos).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Updated to 1.02
- Toned down a bit the Master Hunter units and late hunter units
- Lowered capture chance from Master Hunter units and from a few promotions. Increased it for Ensnarement.

Base capture chance is the same, only experienced units shouldn't capture so often. Also if you want to maximize your capture chance, you should now pick to Ensnarement (+10% capture chance vs. +5% for hunter promos, but you don't have the additional bonus against animals from hunter promos).

When you change the % on the promotions for capturing animals you need to change the % on the outcome in the OutcomeInfos file in the GameInfo folder to actually implement it. You need to change both the subdue outcome and the kill/food probabilities outcome one up and one down to make it total about 100.

Currently all the promos make it up to over 100% so I was going to drop some capture values without compensation on other promos.

 

[Rwn]

When you change the % on the promotions for capturing animals you need to change the % on the outcome in the OutcomeInfos file in the GameInfo folder to actually implement it.

That's what I did (that's why there are now more files in the modmod)

You need to change both the subdue outcome and the kill/food probabilities outcome one up and one down to make it total about 100.

Currently all the promos make it up to over 100% so I was going to drop some capture values without compensation on other promos.

You mean that for example, if you have a +5% from Hunter 1 in the Capture outcome, there should also be a -5% from Hunter 1 in the Kill outcome? I guess that's why +10% capture chance (added to the base 10%) displays as 19% in-game...

If so I can send you the modified core file as well as the modmod one then.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

No point sending me anything. I am not at my modding computer and don't have one I can test things on at the moment.

 

[Rwn]

No point sending me anything. I am not at my modding computer and don't have one I can test things on at the moment.

Well, "sending", I mean, posting it somewhere in the forum so that you (or anyone else) can upload it

 

[Faustmouse]

I downloaded the latest version and deleted those files you told me and now the hunting outcome looks waymore realistic and animals aren't teleported back

But now I'm wondering, why gave the Lizard 3 and 1 while the fox gave 5 and 1 when butchered in the wild? The Grizzly gave , and somehow

Edit: actually many animals give and aswell, so I think this was intendet. I can understand somehow, but why or ?

 

[Rwn]

But now I'm wondering, why gave the Lizard 3 and 1 while the fox gave 5 and 1 when butchered in the wild? The Grizzly gave , and somehow

Edit: actually many animals give and aswell, so I think this was intendet. I can understand somehow, but why or ?

There's some info in the OP:

- and yields have been upped significantly. Killing a pidgeon will give only 1-3 and maybe 1-2 , but a bear might provide up to 20 and 10.
- Some animals will also provide (which translates into science and gold depending on your taxation level) - parrots feathers, bear or jaguar fur, boar tusks...)
- Killing animals with high strength also provide some - tales of how the hunters defeated that nasty tiger...

The available actions with captured animals (apart from building myth/stories/...) have also been tweaked along those lines:
- Butchering (in a city) is available to every captured animal and provides about 50% more resources than a kill.
- Animal Combat is available to non-wimpy captured animals. It will provide less resources than a kill, but more gold and culture.
- Record Tale is available to every captured animal and provide additional and , but don't provide any food or production.
- Animal Study is available to every captured animal and will provide less resources than a kill, but much more .