[BTS] Darius fractal map

[Major Tom]

But isn’t CS next stop to Lib? Assuming no early rush before curassiers.

Btw, no worries about stopping now. I am sure we will see another game with great write up from you.

 

[krikav]

Next stop to lib is probably more likely philosophy, and with GMerch comming out, it probably have to be teched.
There is plenty of time to get CS and often you can get it in a trade as the AIs love to get it.
And if not, it's usually possible to get trade for feud/CoL, to get both prereqs for CS which makes it cheaper to tech through.
But philo is also needed for lib, and paci is likely the only way to get enough GSci to make lib attractive.

 

[Major Tom]

Next stop to lib is probably more likely philosophy
philo is also needed for lib, and paci is likely the only way to get enough GSci to make lib attractive.

Naah, I think differently. First of all, no problem to get two GScientist to bulb philosophy and education under any circumstances. If you got philoTrait and Glib in addition a third will emerge easy. The last thing I worry about is the philotech. Often can trade for it. If selftech needed in lack of third bulb, things get more dicey. Most frequent bulb order: philosophy, education, education. But often twists like education,education and then philosophy trade or bulb or selftech. I feel early bureaucracy powers teching tremendous and don’t care about early detour for philosophy.

 

[Major Tom]

Thanks again for map @jnebbe
By the way recommend it to all. It is very easy going. Interesting turn 5 decision about early tech path and if you go for The Great Lighthouse. And how far will you challenge the guy across the strait with settler and personnel. Or personnel only.

 

[sampsa]

Bureau with such a capital is not worth that much, while pacifism is very valuable. Of course it's not a problem to get the necessary GS for bulbs, but getting an extra GM is great.

 

[Major Tom]

Bureau with such a capital is not worth that much, while pacifism is very valuable. Of course it's not a problem to get the necessary GS for bulbs, but getting an extra GM is great.

It is not the capital yield that is my point. I think selfteching philosophy early is an unnecessary detour.

 

[krikav]

Try it out a few times!
Get philosophy first, and put one turn into the wonder in any city.
The AIs somehow detect that the wonder has been started and that deters them from going for the tech themselves. They are also detered from going philo if Tao is already founded.

The point is ofcourse to lower the chances the AIs ever going philo themselves, if you have a monopoly on philo winning lib is a whole lot easier, and you have a bigger chance of getting something really yummy.

In marble plays, it also dramatically increases your chance of getting Taj.

 

[mscellaneous]

Yes, I play the IMM save.

Techs after Writing: Mysticism > Archery(1) > Aesthetics > Wheel > Pottery > Meditation > Priesthood > CoL > Currency > CS
(1) Got Archery cause of barb pressure on Sury's continent (he has Great Wall). Completely forgot about Immortals!

Traded for Alphabet, Monarchy, IW & Maths. On IMM I never research Alphabet unless there are no good tech trading partners.
I think CS is good on this map, considering 4 foreign trade routes and 3 commerce sea tiles.

Have been pretty lucky with GP so far: 2 scientists for academy in Persepolis and Philo bulb. I always go for Philo bulb, when possible, it is great trade bait (once Lib is close).

 

[Major Tom]

Try it out a few times!
Get philosophy first, and put one turn into the wonder in any city.
The AIs somehow detect that the wonder has been started and that deters them from going for the tech themselves. They are also detered from going philo if Tao is already founded.

The point is ofcourse to lower the chances the AIs ever going philo themselves, if you have a monopoly on philo winning lib is a whole lot easier, and you have a bigger chance of getting something really yummy.

In marble plays, it also dramatically increases your chance of getting Taj.

I perhaps try it out some day. But here no point running pacifism as no religion has spread to my cities. Founding Tao and adopt it is usually suicidal. Here my strategy works fine:

Spoiler 1AD short update :

CS in and revolt to bureaucracy. Two Gscientists in the making. When they are born paper finishes with a healthy bank account since slider doesn’t have to be 100%.
Now comes the good part on this particular map: Sury bulbed philosophy 3 turns ago. He is friendly since I adopted org religion (without a religion hehe) and free fish and sheep for centuries plus a tech request (CoL actually, a good thing since he will hand over philosophy for CS.). Will double bulb education in 10-12 turns, then full throttle to Lib. Perhaps at will be 400Ad.

Elsewhere , barb archers was no match for immortals so got that city with nice developed land. Still room to expand west.

 

[shakabrade]

Deity to 225AD

Spoiler :

This start is so incredibly food rich it should be banned. You get the snaky totally defendable peninsula and you get what is probably and island across you. Since the happy cap is low and stone is not available while the land is not challenged, GLH is totally the play of the map. So, getting it must be a priority. The first conundrum though is how to start as the starting techs are a bit awkward for this map. I decided to go with Fishing with the first tech, which is obvious and my first build was a warrior as I figured that after the first warrior, I will have no time to build a warrior for a long time. And one warrior and one scout would have fogbusted and incredible amount of land. For the second tech I decided to go with Sailing. My gut feeling was not really 100% sure, but Org Lighthouse costs just as much as the Workboat and it provides constant 3-4 food plus it is on the way of GLH. On the other hand, with BW before Sailing, you can chop some workboats and prechop forests sooner. But the problem was that Mining was useless. Sailing route seemed to me to work more commerce which would get all the techs needed for GLH a bit sooner, plus the production would not come from chops as much as from the "stored" population which would be whipped and overflowed into GLH. The tech route has been set to Fishing - Sailing - Mining - BW - Masonry - Wheel - Pottery - AH. Okay, we have pretty much covered the thought process behind first 7 turns.

Spoiler :

GLH was finished 1800BC with the OF from Galley, Settler, Worker and the rest from production and chops. One worker was probably not whipped. The first city was settled on the island PH as it shared a lot of food with the capital, was a hill for barb defense and it was a good settler pump to help with the settler for Pigs+Crabs spot. Also, with GLH, all new cities get +2 trade route. I went there with a settler and a warrior and immediately moved a warrior from the capital to the new city as it was attacked by barbs. Fortunately, the barb Archer lost at 12% odds and afterwards it was a bit better as Khmer scouts killed some Archers. Pasargdae was producing warriors while waiting for Granary and settler whips.

Spoiler :

The second city spot was Pigs + Fish + Horsies. It is a great city on its own and it also allows Wheat city to work horses without border pop. You can see that I have secured Pigs + Crabs city with 2 warriors. The first one just died to an Archer but the second won. After Pigs + Crab, Pasargdae will build a settler for a city gift to Khmer. Sury is a nasty and capable AI and we have stolen his land. After this I proceed with the settler spree. I really lack workers, but they are totally a low priority with GLH and Fin coast. Pigs + Fish + Horsies is dedicated to building a Library and getting the Scientist before Persepolis gets the Merchant. I really want GS for the Academy at the capital. I think that the capital will be a decent enough Bureau capital with 4 cottages 4 traderoutes and many FIN coastal tiles.

Spoiler :

I get to use the Immortals on the barb cities. They were already chipped by the AIs. But I made a noob mistake. I built the Barracks at the capital and gave only extra 5% chance of winning to my Immortals. In the process I delayed the barb city capturing and delayed the Monastery to build Buddhist priests to spread the Buddhism to my GP Farm (Pigs +Crabs). Also, I could have chopped the Missionaries or more workers, but I failed to plan ahead. Tech trades were crazy with Mansa and other great techers.
Khmer started plotting. But they started plotting after I liberated the city and begged, so it is not me.

Spoiler :

1AD overview. My land is underdeveloped. I could have had more workers with more dedicated chopping. Fortunately, I have managed to take the high priority spots, mainly Gold + Iron city, which is purely strategical and not really benefiting production or economy much but Iron is needed for Cuirs. I am yet to switch to Bureaucracy, currently at Pacifism and Caste and have a nice +300. I failed the Music race so I need to wait for a Great Dude from Persepolis + Buddhism at GP Farm to make a switch. Khmer have attacked Victoria. Lol.

Spoiler :

The cities are being developed, bpt is great, Lib is secured and I only need to Finish the Nationalism and trade for Music for MT bulb in couple of turns. This map is fantastic for Cuir rushing and I would take the Khmer out first and then just go Willem, Victoria, Byzant, Monty, Mansa. But at this point, with so much food and happiness it seems too easy to actually do it and in my head it just feels tedious to do it. So, I will stop playing this map and switch to NC273.

 

[shakabrade]

@krikav

Spoiler :

I think not going immediately for more workboats hurt you a lot. You did not have an early warrior and had to overcompensate with more warriors later when you would have built workboats more gladly if you were safe. I was able to grow a bit on a warrior, and managed to focus on 3 consecutive workboats. With Mining starting tech, your start would have been much stronger. Also, putting a second city sooner helps with whip anger management as you can share good tiles while the capital is recovering emotionally. A bit tough luck with where Cherokee is. I had no such issue and got a lot of happy resources and trade connections. Taking Cherokee needs 5 immortals and that is the top priority.

Get philosophy first, and put one turn into the wonder in any city.

Did not know that. Felt like it, but did not know it.

@Major Tom

Spoiler :

I see you want to know about tech path after Writing. In my game it was very conventional play when you have many trades available. I went for Aesthetics, traded for Alphabet, IW, Maths, researched Compass, traded for Currency, researched Drama as noone was there actually, self teched Philo (can not wait for a trade with so many nice GP Farms), traded for Calendar, Monarchy, Monotheism, Polytheism, Literature, CoL and CS. I traded so much and got a lot of gold and built a large bank. I lost Music race but could have taken it if I started researching that path immediately. But I was indecisive with Mansa and Willem. Plus side is that I am advanced. Minus side is that the AIs are advanced as well.

@mscellaneous

Spoiler :

You also went GLH. This wonder is so broken.
I think it makes sense to play the tech race like it was deity even on Imm on this map with so many competent techers.

@jnebbe

Spoiler :

Totally crazy map. Very interesting start with wrong techs and superpowerful leader. You have a neighbour you need to defuse ASAP. The map can easily become a disaster. But if played right yields incredible rewards. Thanks for sharing!

 

[mscellaneous]

Played till turn 150

Spoiler :

GLH really shines on this map. Libbed MilTrad and will research Gunpowder next turn. Converted Sury to Buddism, which I share with Victoria. So Willem (Conf) is first up for a bit of Cuirs stomping. Probably will not finish this game, though. BOTM 210 is just announced and will start in 2 days. Also a GLH contender, it seems

I looked at the Diety GLH dates. It seems that 2000 to 1800 BC is considered to be safe. With this start you cannot afford going for expansion before GLH, Good call and great play @krikav and @shakabrade

 

[krikav]

@shakabrade Yeah, I screwed up the opening quite alot. Was overcommited to getting GLH to the extent that I probably delayed the date I got it.
Your game is a nice showcase for how to do it better.

Regarding a turn into wonder, that is just something I read in some of the ancient threads here a long time ago, can't find the source or verify it, but what I recall is that if the player (or some other AI) has started a wonder, then the other AIs lower their priority to start teching that tech.
It won't stop them from completing it if they have already started though, and it won't deter them from starting the wonder if they got the relevant tech.

 

[krikav]

BOTM 210 is just announced and will start in 2 days. Also a GLH contender, it seems

The NC Ragnar game is a coastal start too, join in on the fun!

 

[mscellaneous]

The NC Ragnar game is a coastal start too, join in on the fun!

Yes, started this yesterday and...

Spoiler :

... built GLH as well!