Dawn of Civilization General Discussion
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
?Dracosolon
Emperor
Switch back to Isolationism.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
I regret to report that the edits to AI Thalassocracy evaluation might have backfired. Snapshot from turn 50 (600AD scenario) has 14 out of 25 civs running it, most notably China for the first time I've ever seen.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
Here comes some more pain for ya, big guy! Cultural expansion into uncontested tiles seems to have accelerated, or at least the contrast between culturally expensive and inexpensive tiles seems to have widened. It might also be the case that I haven't factored in the distinction between founded and acquired cities in accounting for observer bias. Whether or not this report ends up having merit I think others would agree that some tweaks would still be warranted but that can for sure take a back seat for a while.
KMRblue1027
Deity
Claiming this will only affect the upper class might be the most baffling thing anyone has ever said downright wrong. People have already pointed out how interconnected agriculture is nowadays which will skyrocket food prices but medicine is as well, 90% of generic drugs sold in the US are manufactured in India and no tax will change that the infrastructure to do so won't ever be established here. By adding these import taxes you just outright made life saving medicine 50% more expensive for basically everyone.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
Now that the new amphibious Arabian units have demonstrated that the AI is at least in principal willing to attack Hespiredes (considered worth the effort and not deterred by hostile defenders), the question now remains why it continues to be otherwise ignored/avoided. This includes Arabia if they don't use their starting units for this purpose, as well as all successors to the area. I've deleted defenders, added roads, edited terrain, etc. to entice the AI but still they don't even move into nearby tiles. Given the insignificance of this entire phenomenon, I inquire as a purely intellectual matter and wouldn't want valuable time spent on its solution. But gosh am I dang curious to know what's happening under the hood.
EDIT: Manually loaded AI units onto transports induces them to attack. This is so strange, nay?
EDIT 2: Checked Area and sure enough the Egypt/Maghreb border lies one tile East of the city. Surely this would account for what we're seeing? If so how about making the vicinity part of Egypt?
EDIT: Manually loaded AI units onto transports induces them to attack. This is so strange, nay?
EDIT 2: Checked Area and sure enough the Egypt/Maghreb border lies one tile East of the city. Surely this would account for what we're seeing? If so how about making the vicinity part of Egypt?
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Dracosolon
Emperor
Perhaps they're afraid of the dragon.
FYI, I forgot to include the updated DLL in the latest update, so none of the discussed AI improvements were part of it. I pushed another update, so if you did any AI trial runs already, please give it another try.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
Really though, my sanity thanks you for this news. Nothing what I was seeing made sense and fingers were starting to point at my own brain.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
The severe settler goofiness seems to have been resolved generally. I still witness what appears to be *stuck* settlers in certain cases but I can't nearly rule out circumstantial factors, mainly war, map vision, and AI Role (e.g. most/all Galleons ASSAULT_SEA), but such behavior (if it indeed is even taking place as I believe to observe) aren't new or related to the last round of fixes.
For what it's worth , Java in particular appeared the most enthusiastic, packing the archipelago to an extent not seen before and bringing life to formerly barren Borneo. What remains to be seen is if this consistently acts as an opposing force to the New Java's notable resilience in the stability area.
I also got to see New Granada properly settled for the first time and with appropriate haste.
Best of all, what I have *not* seen (yet
) is gratuitous and moronic over-settling, except to the untrained eye by Congo but it makes sense in their case due to UP.
Last, if I could inquire exactly what each color represents in debug mode when ALT-hovering for AI settler sites, as well as the d=1 that sometimes appears. I couldn't make out the pattern. Also am I crazy or was Cyan added by the recent update (thanks for the additional info btw) ? EDIT: I just accidently figured out that Cyan tiles mean the civ doesn't have vision on the tile.
I also might have stumbled upon a lead regarding the *stuck* colonial civ settler behavior. In one of those games in which England didn't touch North America, the AI designated a spot in Australia as its next settlement (if that what the big yellow X more or less represents). This seems to have been chosen after settling Sprightown, which was done with expected haste. Could it be a case where the AI gets stuck in a kind of logic loop involving decision and execution, like "we're def settling here but uhhhh don't know how" kinda like what you described with the Transport slot bug. France is prone to similar situations with the suspected culprit lying in Polynesia. Regardless, I at least now have a control to test against.
For what it's worth , Java in particular appeared the most enthusiastic, packing the archipelago to an extent not seen before and bringing life to formerly barren Borneo. What remains to be seen is if this consistently acts as an opposing force to the New Java's notable resilience in the stability area.
I also got to see New Granada properly settled for the first time and with appropriate haste.
Best of all, what I have *not* seen (yet
) is gratuitous and moronic over-settling, except to the untrained eye by Congo but it makes sense in their case due to UP.Last, if I could inquire exactly what each color represents in debug mode when ALT-hovering for AI settler sites, as well as the d=1 that sometimes appears. I couldn't make out the pattern. Also am I crazy or was Cyan added by the recent update (thanks for the additional info btw) ? EDIT: I just accidently figured out that Cyan tiles mean the civ doesn't have vision on the tile.
I also might have stumbled upon a lead regarding the *stuck* colonial civ settler behavior. In one of those games in which England didn't touch North America, the AI designated a spot in Australia as its next settlement (if that what the big yellow X more or less represents). This seems to have been chosen after settling Sprightown, which was done with expected haste. Could it be a case where the AI gets stuck in a kind of logic loop involving decision and execution, like "we're def settling here but uhhhh don't know how" kinda like what you described with the Transport slot bug. France is prone to similar situations with the suspected culprit lying in Polynesia. Regardless, I at least now have a control to test against.
SultanRedSnake
Prince
OMG
I can almost say Yes for sure, as these sites lie along the corridors caravels tend to stick to after entering the Pacific. In fact, it's not infrequent for these areas to be discovered before the Atlantic coasts are mapped in detail.
On it, cap'n!
SultanRedSnake
Prince
Update: Possible/partial smoking gun. Loaded game in question, year 1701. WB'd settler and defender to designated tile. England promptly settled, then *immediately* sent out the Galleons that had languished in home reports for Zeus-knows-how-long to hit targets in North America and other typical locations. Included save is prior to this move. You'll also notice France hasn't settled at all, but this was more closely accounted for by lacking SETTLER_SEA Galleons, which I'd changed before accidentally overwriting the pristine save. Spain's colonial progress was going great but then halted, and it seems their latest Colonist spawn group is locked in the Mediterranean.
And if you're wondering, yes Arabia has survived from the start, and you might also be surprised at how well Spain has done without Cordoba.
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SultanRedSnake
Prince
Pending. If you'd indulge my non-programmer musings, I'd imagine structuring a settlement regime into Phases, or a similar principal, that would also vary per civ. E.g. England and France would have to meet a certain threshold in the Western Hemisphere before moving beyond, whereas Portugal and the Netherlands would be encouraged to make a strong eastward focus first. Or some mix-n-match of these ideas. Thanks for listening!
Hello,
I just started playing civ 4 again and for old time's sake downloaded the mod (on latest 1.18 version). There's been a lot of work since I last played, good job !
After a few games, I find many UHV really hard (which is fine), but some seem borderline impossible. After making some tests to see what was required in the Babylonian UHV and realizing that Greece spawns with writing on turn 50 I focused on writing, getting it on turn 49 two games in a row to see someone researching construction on turn 51. Third game someone got arithmetics on turn 43, which can be done as Babylon but not if you want to have writing by turn 50. Was I particularly unlucky or is Babylon impossible in most playthroughs ?
I just started playing civ 4 again and for old time's sake downloaded the mod (on latest 1.18 version). There's been a lot of work since I last played, good job !
After a few games, I find many UHV really hard (which is fine), but some seem borderline impossible. After making some tests to see what was required in the Babylonian UHV and realizing that Greece spawns with writing on turn 50 I focused on writing, getting it on turn 49 two games in a row to see someone researching construction on turn 51. Third game someone got arithmetics on turn 43, which can be done as Babylon but not if you want to have writing by turn 50. Was I particularly unlucky or is Babylon impossible in most playthroughs ?
Dracosolon
Emperor
It's doable, here's a video of @Hickman888's playthrough:
I also played it again a few days ago, I don't remember the exact order but I think I went Mining (Masonry 1st free), Tanning (Ceremony 2nd, revolt to Slavery/Monarchy), Property (Writing 3rd), Sailing (Divination 4th), Leverage (Arithmetics 5th) and Oracle for Smelting/Construction. There is some amount of luck involved especially with the Oracle (no Marble!) but in general this is a good order for researching the techs (especially since Writing is so important for unlocking the excellent UB and scientists).
I also played it again a few days ago, I don't remember the exact order but I think I went Mining (Masonry 1st free), Tanning (Ceremony 2nd, revolt to Slavery/Monarchy), Property (Writing 3rd), Sailing (Divination 4th), Leverage (Arithmetics 5th) and Oracle for Smelting/Construction. There is some amount of luck involved especially with the Oracle (no Marble!) but in general this is a good order for researching the techs (especially since Writing is so important for unlocking the excellent UB and scientists).
Dracosolon
Emperor
No, Regent/Normal, UHV difficulty is in theory calibrated for those settings. You can do a lot of them on Monarch through skill, but when the playthrough is so short it's best to stick to the default.
