debate (split from Total Realism mod)

[GANGSTA287]

altough i find your mod very good Houman, i find your signature to be very offensive, suggesting americans r facists, i will assume you r european or canadian and are a big fan of Hugo Chavez...

its not my fault americans have the balls to take care of others' problems and all other westerners want to do is get drunk and smoke weed (not like there is anything wrong with doing that in one's free time )

but seriously that just makes me sick, have any of you watched the videos and articles he posted on his signature?!?!?!?!

but wait, i guess america is facist isnt it... all that welfare to foreign countries.. even Venezuela and Iran, all the colleges open to everyone in the world, hell the US govt even will pay for your education in college, those damn americans always force christianity upon their people, i dont happen to live next door to a PALESTINIAN on one side and a JEW on the other!!!!!! im middle class!!!!!!

I SWEAR TO GOD that the US is the only country in the world that wont shoot or mock u for being a certain religion, all those liberals in france and denmark really care about the minorty dont they? lets mock Allah because of some wackos who probalby hate america less than brats of our own allies...

i dont mean to make a political statement on a board meant for Houman's mod, but i want u to think that one over Houman, 911 wasnt staged, american soldiers r no worse than any other's nations, we r not facist, although im afraid soon in europe they will tell u what u will do with your life, all americans want either liberal or conservative is for other westerners to just shut up and let us handle it, because have caused enough problems already europe...

 

[keldath]

well spoken gangsta!

 

[Hian the Frog]

GANGSTA287,

All of us have different points of wiew about politics, religion,....so it's always difficult to exchange ideas without creating some misunderstanding. You also seems to have some problems to understand SOME european feelings. As a Frenchman, i can really tell you that your country (USA if i well understand) is both hated and loved. Hated because of death penalty, weapons sales to civilian, Bush and his followers, some of your evangelists guys for exemple...and loved because of your religious freedom, your democratic governement, your optimistic way of thinking,....
The main problem is that Europe is made of numerous old countries sharing an also old history made of wars, treasons, diplomacy, religious struggles, political and philosophical differences,... whereas yours is a young one, united (?) among a common history.
To finish about France. ALL RELIGIONS are allowed in France, i say all !!! As all political groups, even the worst (in my opinion) such as communists, facists and nazis. Are communists allowed in USA ? not sure....
So, it's sometimes difficult to understand each others. Nevertheless, i really agree with you when you say that Americans are the only who have the balls to care some of others' problems. I met many Americans in my last job, i can tell you that they were neither worse or better than me, just different because of their american education....

The (French) Frog.

 

[Turelio]

... all americans want either liberal or conservative is for other westerners to just shut up and let us handle it, because have caused enough problems already europe...

To me, thats fascism.

Also, its been a long time since I saw an israeli agree with what an american said, its usually the other way around.

 

[Therapist]

Regarding Houman's sig. As an American, I think Houman(along with anyone else) has the right to voice his opinions about anything he wants no matter how biased, idiotic, ethno-centric or plain just "jumping on the bandwagon" along with the rest of Europe. I have traveled a lot of places in the world, and every time I run into a European; they all usually say the same thing regarding our leadership. A lot of them say "How did you let that happen? Why did you vote for Bush." 80% of Europeans I meet don't even realize that 50% of Americans DID NOT vote for Bush. They think we all are fat, lazy, Christian war mongers. I am none of the above. I think Bush is one of the worst presidents in history and has alienated us from the world. I also believe that most Europeans over-exaggerate our actions and think everything is a conspiracy theory and we are some kind of puppets to Israel. It seems a lot of you have the thinking of "what have you done for me lately," in essence, you seem to forget all the good we have done in the past because of some mistakes in the present. Hell, we are still doing good in the present but you NEVER seen that in European news papers and never receive credit for it. I think Houman has done great work on this mod and is entitled to his opinion in his sig, so let’s get back to playing this great mod and not start a political flame war. PLAY ON!

 

[Los Tirano]

Houman's links more seem to be concerned with where your country is going. Sure they say some things, throw some accusations, but certain 'tendencies' are very worrying (Influence of the Christian right, messianic vision of America, declaring war against a host of countries, curtailing liberties, illegally spying on their own populations, propaganda manipulation etc etc).

Other countries and their populations are probably quite annoyed that you think you have the right to take care of their problems. Sure you can interfere, you have the courage to, but did you ask them, or look at situations carefully?

Aiding other countries does not mean your country isnt slipping closer to fascism. The funding could be part of political arrangements, to increase prestige internationally, diffuse ideology, and manage people's views of the U.S. You after all, think this is a good thing, and the U.S is a better state because of it.

And you can swear to god as much as you want, but other countries are also heirs to the views of the enlightenment. Hian points out that France also has religious freedom. And as an Australian who studies religion i can also point out that Australia also has religious freedom. There is a mosque on my campus and almost every religion can be found in Melbourne.

But as a final point i wanted to ask you about this. "the US is the only country in the world that wont shoot or mock u for being a certain religion". So, what you are telling me, honestly, is that there have been no cases of anti-islamic attacks, harassment and protests in the U.S post 9/11?

 

[Therapist]

I don't agree with everything the original poster said about America, however you asked about anti-Muslim attacks after 9/11? I live on the west coast, and let me tell you, very few have taken place. There were some immediately following the horrible day that changed the world, but I can't even remember the last time I picked u the paper and read about this kind of attack. Actually, it is more common in America for attacks on Jews by Muslims and radical neo-nazi groups. Just recently a person of the "religion of peace" walked into a Jewish community center in Seattle, WA and shot 6-7people, killing one. I haven't read anything in the paper in the last 5 years of a similar attack on Muslims in WA State. Judging all of a people of a country by their leadership is not a correct way of thinking. Every country has a vast array of religions and schools of thought. People and governments make mistakes and bad moves. Blowing things out of proportion is not making things better. Comparing Bush to Hitler or fascism is plainly wrong, I would tell you to ask 6 million Jews about this but they are not exactly around these days, are they? The US doesn't have gas "shower rooms" and death trains. If you take that video at 100% face value, you need to really sit back and think about reality. The world is not and never will be a perfect place due to the tendencies of humans.

 

[Los Tirano]

The article that is a part of his footnotes, not the video, comes closer to recognising those tendencies. It draws the distinction that America is not Nazi germany, but based on what can be observed, the political shifts towards a fascist government (with all that entails) is a problem. But so we dont blindly fall for a cause, it would be naive to condemn America as the new completely evil empire, and all Americans as its supporters. That just isnt realistic, and it ignores a lot. Especially taking attention away from what other interest groups and countries are up to.

 

[GANGSTA287]

yeah, well therapist, i live in the midwest, i know it can get pretty bad in california, people dont see how well blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, arabs, persians, rich, poor, can get along in america, especially where i live, even in St. Louis, which is a pretty big city.

this whole thing in the middle east is somehow americas fault?????, i dont know about anyone else, but my dad is my towns city engineer, and his asst. engineer is an Iranian exile whose family was run out of Iran in the late 70s for being Sunni, his parents were killed by followers of the ayotola.

this guy is a muslim, although not the same branch as President Hitler of Iran, he told me that he is forever in debt to america, he would have been publicly executed in Iran, but instead he is living a middle class life in america with both his kids in college (one in Army ROTC.)

how can europe call themselves LIBERAL, when they watch african childern killed by ******* tanks!?!?!?, im a repulican (moderate-conservative) and i cant sleep some nights thinking that they r killing childern with russians tanks most likely sold to them by Iran, and the UN, the UN sends food, they send food to the villages, food that will get taken by the tanks, never to feed the starving children.

u dont think americans watch Tv to hear that europeans have massive anti american protests? americans r getting sick of those, we dont have to help anyone we dont want to with anything, we be a hell of alot of richer i we didnt help, abrams tanks only get 1.2 miles a gallon...

but i will stop this political ranting before some board monitor bans me...

 

[Spartan117]

yeah, well therapist, i live in the midwest, i know it can get pretty bad in california, people dont see how well blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, arabs, persians, rich, poor, can get along in america, especially where i live, even in St. Louis, which is a pretty big city.

this whole thing in the middle east is somehow americas fault?????, i dont know about anyone else, but my dad is my towns city engineer, and his asst. engineer is an Iranian exile whose family was run out of Iran in the late 70s for being Sunni, his parents were killed by followers of the ayotola.

this guy is a muslim, although not the same branch as President Hitler of Iran, he told me that he is forever in debt to america, he would have been publicly executed in Iran, but instead he is living a middle class life in america with both his kids in college (one in Army ROTC.)

how can europe call themselves LIBERAL, when they watch african childern killed by ******* tanks!?!?!?, im a repulican (moderate-conservative) and i cant sleep some nights thinking that they r killing childern with russians tanks most likely sold to them by Iran, and the UN, the UN sends food, they send food to the villages, food that will get taken by the tanks, never to feed the starving children.

u dont think americans watch Tv to hear that europeans have massive anti american protests? americans r getting sick of those, we dont have to help anyone we dont want to with anything, we be a hell of alot of richer i we didnt help, abrams tanks only get 1.2 miles a gallon...

but i will stop this political ranting before some board monitor bans me...

not commenting on this recent discussion but however the abrams only get 1.2 miles a gallon ?!?!?!

 

[Mikkeman]

Dear Gangsta287

Please stop promoting how good and fabulous nation you have. And if you are getting tired and even sick of our protest against the US then change the channel. At least here you can still protest without being harassed.

And everybody has right to use almost any sig they wish. U don't have to pull your brains out for that.

Houman and the team thank you for a great mod. One of the bests out there.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Hi all,

It's both painfull and funny to read how some guys got mad when something hurt them.
As a retired sergeant of the French Army, i often went in Africa and middle east countries. There, we were either "liberators", "foreigners", "unbelivers", "whites", and so on... In these countries, i met people who were really happy to be protected by us, others who would wait the best time to try to kill us,....
What thinking of that ? Is my way of life the best ?
IMO, Americans are neither "good" or "evil". They only follow a very dangerous path (either for them and for the rest of the world) , wich slowly make them the most hated country and people in the world, because of their leaders. It could change in few years, USA are a democraty.... (i hope).

Now about the mod:
I miss many improvement since the beginning of the year. The last time i played it, it was version 1.09. Houman as already accepted one of my idea to add the French modern tank "Leclerc" if i find all necessary. So, is any one of you know where i can find this ? Does it was already created ?
Thx for answers.

The Frog.

 

[THARN]

Someone mentioned if Communism is allowed in America, yes it is- they are called Democrats.

This mod is awesome- and I really wish I didn't have to read the BS from some of the Europeans who make comments on the U.S. without any real knowledge of my country.
Fact is- the World is in a Holy War--wether you like it or not-there are groups commited into killing innocents on a daily basis, because they don't follow the same beliefs.
I've witnessed a number of European countries stick thier head in the sand after having a terrorist attack-Spain? are you still there?
Funny how the Leader of Iran can publicly declare that Israel should be wiped off the map and nobody in Europe frowns upon that very hostile and barbaric statement.

Keep complaining and whining about the U.S. being warmongers-go ahead-When it's all over,
We will still have the same way of life while you put your turbans on, Bow to Allah and lose 500 years of civilized progress.

 

[Mikkeman]

Tharn

Killing innocents? Hmm, conquering Iraq. I think US knows what it is to cause collateral damage. I don't think that many people in Iraq would hail US soldiers as liberators. You disrespect muslim beliefs, it is not a suprise that they harbor hatred against westerners.

And what comes of civilized progress i dont think you americans have much to say about that, when these "barbaric" muslim nations culture go way back your countrys history is mere 500 years. And most of that is written in blood.
And actually I would prefer their way of life over the american way.

 

[carnivore]

first , tharn , thumbs up man

second mikkman , WTH you talking about ??
try to live in the middle east surronded by hostile arabs who declare that they wish to blow you away and support deadly and very fanatic terrorist groups before you talk such nonsence

bout' the united states

we ALL should thank them , cous if everyone here was like some EU countires we were all doomed
like spain , got bombed and run with the tail between their legs , and the EU leades who doesnt agree Iran should be punished , they have a leader who said in public that another country needs to be destroyed !
and they planing on develope ATOM bomb , it's like a bomb in the hands of hitler
and all those naive peope who think that won't get to them
newsflash , they have missle to every capitol in EU and tehy will use it if they are in the corner

just think bout' that befor you dissin' the united states and go back to your pink lovley bubble

 

[Mikkeman]

Hmm

Lots of bigots in here. I am just trying to make you see that there are different ways to do things. Going gunz blazing will only spawn more radical terrorists, which will target civilians. I acknowledge that in the middle east people are way past talking and engagin in bloody warfare. When you kill one terrorist you will plant a seed for 10 more. Negotiations are only way to achieve peace, not killing.

And I do agree that fundamentalists which control Iran are a possible threat. But what do you think Eu should do to contain this threat? I believe in diplomacy, not warfare. I fear that this middle east war will only escalate.

Americans should first take care of their own people and then start to play world police. Everybody has a reason why they hate someone. You should ask yourself what have US done to make Iran so mad.

And I hope I had a pink lovly bubble, where to go hide when life gets rough.

 

[carnivore]

we tried use diplomacy but terrorist who wish your country dead doesn't wish to talk
so we pulled out from gaza and from the north , and what we got ?
soldiers dead , kidnaping and rockets to cities !

iam sorry but some thims you have to fight

and what EU can do ?
well , stop living in a bubble and start helping that war in terror , second punish iran untill they will give up their nuclear projects
the world is in war , rather you like it or not liking it

 

[Spartan117]

go to off topic with this discussion, there are many threads referring to the middle east and leave this thread for the discussion of the realism mod

 

[Mikkeman]

Ok, I will stop ranting.

 

[THARN]

Tharn

Killing innocents? Hmm, conquering Iraq. I think US knows what it is to cause collateral damage. I don't think that many people in Iraq would hail US soldiers as liberators. You disrespect muslim beliefs, it is not a suprise that they harbor hatred against westerners.


And what comes of civilized progress i dont think you americans have much to say about that, when these "barbaric" muslim nations culture go way back your countrys history is mere 500 years. And most of that is written in blood.
And actually I would prefer their way of life over the american way.
__________________

The entire reason that I have a problem with muslims is that they don't speak out against what the fanatic's are doing- The same reason I've had a problem with The Catholics-which I was raised-The Pope has never spoken out against the terrorism caused on behalf of his church in Ireland-
Look, I have a problem with any orginization that has the ability to stop mayhem caused by such a small group of miscreants-{ be it Muslim fanatics/Christian 'right to lifers' who blow up abortion clinics...or Bible totin Babtists who hide behind sheets and hate everyone but the Aryan race.
Yet the MAJORITY turns thier soft bellies away and lets it continue.
SHAME ON YOU!~

My own view usually splits right down the middle- I truly believe that you should be able to do as you please as long as it doesn't hurt or cause hurt to another- If you do step over the bounds, and if it is a major step-then yes- the offender should be killed- Is that offensive? go back to the animal kingdom where the hunters are allowed to hunt and the prey are their sustanence: I have a right not to be killed loike an animal don't you have this right?

You talk about me offending the Muslim religion- boo hoo... live with it- Read up on the Taliban and what they did to Afghanistan-and it's people-this is a very brutal culture... you ever see the mass beheadings of other Muslims by the Taliban?
Funny I haven't heard of the American Government doing that lately..or ever!

And I always see you people yapping about working things out--:"lets sit down and talk it over- we can come to an agreement can't we?"

DIPLOMACY DOES NOT WORK with these folks.. Wake up!
They are ignorant- they are not raised with open imformation like we are- They have been directed down a certain path to feel and believe what thier leaders want them to/ I pity them- because it is a waste of a human life-
But I feel much better that they are taken off of the planet before they can take out someone who, like the people on this forum, have the chance to make their own decisions based on 'all of the facts-Not just propaganda.

Crap like this go's on all over the world- The Middle East just happens to be in the limelight right now...Does Bosnia ring a bell>? How about When Russia rolled into Checkloslovakia and blew the crap outta them?

Get off of your soft pedestal and take a good look at whats really going on and stop bemoaning the fact that The U.S. is in Iraq-
Heres a quote from the Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki adressing the United Nations a couple weeks ago:

Ladies and gentlemen, in a short space of time, Iraq has gone from a dictatorship to a transitional administration, and now to a fully fledged democratic government.

This has happened despite the best efforts of the terrorists who are bent on either destroying democracy or Iraq, but by the courage of our people who defied the terrorists every time they were called upon to make a choice, by risking their lives for the ballot box. They have stated over and over again, with their ink-stained fingers waving in pride, that they will always make the same choice.

So quit complaining and get on board! Last time a country was "conquered" like you say the US did to Iraq- I believe the "Conquerers" reaped the spoils of war..didnt they? the US is spending Billions -partly my taxes to get that country back on it's feet and free. YOu obviously haven't learned anything about Saddam Housein or choose to turn a blind eye to History..
if thats the case, your no different then the fanatics.


{sorry -a few posts were posted while I was typing- I'll shut up now.}