Almightyjosh
Governor in Waiting
OK, here tis in smaller form...
Defining our provinces
- Thread starter Chieftess
- Start date
Donovan Zoi
The Return
My apologies for arriving late to this discussion, but I would really like to see the blue province end at the Eastern landbridge if at all possible.
I like it very well as is. The problem with having it end at the eastern landbridge is that New Egypt, which is already large, would be made larger. This way, all provinces stick with 7-9 cities or so.
Peri
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I have read this thread carefully and paid attention to the arguments. However I really believe that we are planning too far ahead. There is nothing wrong with taking our time with this. That is why I believe that we should only define our provinces from the areas we have actual influence over. By taking this approach we retain the ability to be flexible. We should define the provinces as the land becomes available to us.
In the map below I have defined the eastern border of Capitoline in agreement with Josh's plan. By default this creates a western province. I also believe like DZ that Capitoline's western border should be the isthmus. This makes more sense geographically.
I have defined the southern border for the 'orange' province using the dessert and the narrowing of the land. We could even leave that border open ended if there was consensus to allow greater flexibility.
The eastern province is subject to our immediate attention. I believe that we should not turn Egypt into one province but allow for the possibility of creating more than one.
The key to this plan is its flexiblility. It allows for the creation of 3 new provinces without restricting future plans for colonization.
In the map below I have defined the eastern border of Capitoline in agreement with Josh's plan. By default this creates a western province. I also believe like DZ that Capitoline's western border should be the isthmus. This makes more sense geographically.
I have defined the southern border for the 'orange' province using the dessert and the narrowing of the land. We could even leave that border open ended if there was consensus to allow greater flexibility.
The eastern province is subject to our immediate attention. I believe that we should not turn Egypt into one province but allow for the possibility of creating more than one.
The key to this plan is its flexiblility. It allows for the creation of 3 new provinces without restricting future plans for colonization.
Almightyjosh
Governor in Waiting
In my proposal, while Capitoline does not end at the land bridge, the border does follow the 'lie of the land' in terms of mountain ranges, etc which is most desireable.
Furthermore, the polling conducted on this issue has revealed two things:
Firstly, provinces should have 7-10 cities. In my proposal above, all provinces have a minimum of eight, most have nine and some may have ten cities. In the second proposal, all provinces would have only seven (possible eight if crammed), with 'to dye for' only having five or six.
Secondly, previous suggestions with the boderer at the land-bridge have failed. In my opinion there is no real need to restrict capitoline to this land-bridge-border. If, in fact, you imagine Capitoline without the northern 'gulf', its shape makes even more sense extended!
Furthermore, the polling conducted on this issue has revealed two things:
Firstly, provinces should have 7-10 cities. In my proposal above, all provinces have a minimum of eight, most have nine and some may have ten cities. In the second proposal, all provinces would have only seven (possible eight if crammed), with 'to dye for' only having five or six.
Secondly, previous suggestions with the boderer at the land-bridge have failed. In my opinion there is no real need to restrict capitoline to this land-bridge-border. If, in fact, you imagine Capitoline without the northern 'gulf', its shape makes even more sense extended!
Peri
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Proposal 2 conforms to the poll result then by your own admission. Also I said that we should consider leaving 'orange' open ended in the south to allow for expansion. Since the only real difference between the 2 proposals is the number of provinces defined, I see no reason why it should be dismissed so lightly. We should try seek to common ground
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
Just a recommendation... I suggest that provincial on the coast be extended, not from the edge of the land, but all the way to the end of the coast (light blue vs. dark blue). That way, the edges won't be as jagged, and everything will look just a bit neater.
Almightyjosh
Governor in Waiting
True, but I was pointing out that provinces of 8-9 cities would be preferable to all provinces having 7 cities. While this would technically fall within the bracket, 7 is a minimum, to be treated as a minimum.
The main difference between these proposals is the situation of the Capitoline/2D4/OldE border and the corresponding far border of 'Old E'. The second difference is that of the number of provinces defined (or rather the area they cover). If I may take each in turn.
i) Proposal 1 allows the Capitoline northern border to extend beyond the 'landbridge' and on to the plain on the other side. It then terminates at the foothills of the mountains. Correspondingly the near and far borders of 'Old Egypt' are moved eastward. This means that the majority of the area currently held by Cleo falls into 'Old Egypt'. This make Capitoline a stronger province, but also improves 'OE', as in the first proposal it will have some fertile lands in addition to large tracts of mountains.
ii) The reason I am attemping to define provinces in advance is this: we are at war with Egypt, and we are superior to them. It is very likely that, if we choose to do so, we could take most if not all of its cities. This we should have a provincial map drawn up to take in those conquered territories, so administration can be quickly implemented. I have devised a plan that accounts for all egyptian cities bar one (Heliopolis and the sothern regions are too little known to accurately map at this time.)
You all ask 'why mark out provinces in advance?'. I say to you, why not? When we think of where to draw our borders we must think ahead to the impact this will have on the next province, and the next. If you examine proposal one, you will see that it allows for logical and asthetic expantion under a good provincial structure!!!
I adapted AJ's proposal and editted his map. I have no fancy drawing tools or skills. The whitelines are deleted borders.
I like normal shapped provinces without strange lumps and bumps. What do you think of it ?
I like normal shapped provinces without strange lumps and bumps. What do you think of it ?
Sir John
The evil one...
I actualy like AJ's Proposal more...
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Actually, I am warming up to AJ's as well(I think the "gulf" interpretation swayed me). However, this province will ultimately house 12-13 cities, which is a bit beyond what we had voted for.
That said, I think we should poll a Yes/No on the Green province(the terrain border on this option makes the most sense - sorry, Rik
) and a choice between AJ's blue province and one that stops at the landbridge. After this is determined by vote, we can(quickly) assess the possibilities for Old Egypt, and put that to vote as well.
That said, I think we should poll a Yes/No on the Green province(the terrain border on this option makes the most sense - sorry, Rik
) and a choice between AJ's blue province and one that stops at the landbridge. After this is determined by vote, we can(quickly) assess the possibilities for Old Egypt, and put that to vote as well.
Almightyjosh
Governor in Waiting
I agree with the first step, but the determination of the eastern border of capitoline MUST be conducted concurrently with the determination of the rest of Old Egypt's borders and the Northern border of 2Dye4. The Old Greece, Old Aztecia and the sothern 2D4 border can be worked out in later steps.
Peri
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Lets deal with Capitoline's borders first then move on to the others. Surely this is the most logical way forward because it breaks up the likely border contentions into bitesize debates which will be resolved quicker than discussing mass partition.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
AJ, I have to agree with Peri on this one, although I have no problem with our current poll of the far west province. Doing so will ensure that proper discussion is given to each .
Let's define Capitoline next and then Old Egypt and so on. Defining Capitoline will determine how we lay out Old Egypt; Old Egypt will determine how we lay out To Dye For etc.
This is why I suggest that we poll the potential candidates for Capitoline as soon as its western border is passed by the citizenry. After Capitoline's borders are approved, we can then move on to Old Egypt.
Let's define Capitoline next and then Old Egypt and so on. Defining Capitoline will determine how we lay out Old Egypt; Old Egypt will determine how we lay out To Dye For etc.
This is why I suggest that we poll the potential candidates for Capitoline as soon as its western border is passed by the citizenry. After Capitoline's borders are approved, we can then move on to Old Egypt.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Well, the Green(Far West) province has been decided. By a vote of 6-3-1, the public has chosen AJ's Option One.
Now that this has been done, I would like us to determine the Eastern border for Capitoline. I only want us to consider Capitoline at this time. To me, it looks like the three options are:
1. End at the Eastern landbridge(Donovan Zoi)
2. Extend just past the Eastern landbridge so that Capitoline includes the city of Inadatto(Almightyjosh).
3. Extend a bit further to pick up the cities of Lake Asphinxia and Aureus(Rik Meleet).
That said, I really believe we should pursue ending Capitoline at the landbridge. The "gulf" idea is a good sell, but not enough to allow us to develop a province that would certainly hold more than 12 cities. We have 6 cities(which includes our new city, Tyvek) within Capitoline's proposed borders west of the landbridge , and we have plenty of room to expand!
Let's have one last brief discussion on this matter and put it to vote.
Now that this has been done, I would like us to determine the Eastern border for Capitoline. I only want us to consider Capitoline at this time. To me, it looks like the three options are:
1. End at the Eastern landbridge(Donovan Zoi)
2. Extend just past the Eastern landbridge so that Capitoline includes the city of Inadatto(Almightyjosh).
3. Extend a bit further to pick up the cities of Lake Asphinxia and Aureus(Rik Meleet).
That said, I really believe we should pursue ending Capitoline at the landbridge. The "gulf" idea is a good sell, but not enough to allow us to develop a province that would certainly hold more than 12 cities. We have 6 cities(which includes our new city, Tyvek) within Capitoline's proposed borders west of the landbridge , and we have plenty of room to expand!
Let's have one last brief discussion on this matter and put it to vote.
My proposal for Capitoline was based on the shape of the western province. Since AJ's shape for this was chosen I don't like the Capotiline eastern border to be this far east.
Actually all my borders were consequences of the Western province borders. With this border decided this way even I don't like the other borders of my proposal.
Actually all my borders were consequences of the Western province borders. With this border decided this way even I don't like the other borders of my proposal.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Then I shall remove it from the list of possibilities, Rik. Thank you for your input as it will help us reach a quick conclusion in this matter.
The choices are now:
1. End at the Eastern landbridge(Donovan Zoi)
2. Extend just past the Eastern landbridge so that Capitoline includes the city of Inadatto(Almightyjosh).
The choices are now:
1. End at the Eastern landbridge(Donovan Zoi)
2. Extend just past the Eastern landbridge so that Capitoline includes the city of Inadatto(Almightyjosh).
