Definition of offices in Alternative government structure

[Provolution]

I have some comments here, based on the present structure, but these are all for amendment purposes. I think we got some major imbalances between some of the consuls and some of the directors that needs to be evened out for the good of democracy and more interesting mandates and elections.

 

[Provolution]

Assesment of Term One Cabinet Structure and elections, as well as balance of mandates, powers and Consul-Director relationships

We got 3 somewhat balanced consul positions and one redundant. The close race for external consul and technology and trade consuls prove that these are heavily contested, moderately for the Domestic and even less for culture.

The best way to make more incentive for future elections is to remove Culture Consul totally from the game, and transfer culture wars to governors and wonder discussions to technology and trade.

However, many players would like to see the Foreign Affairs and Trade Department reestablished. This would require the External Consul and the Technology and Trade Consul to cede away power to a new Consul position. Military and Foreign Affairs/Trade/State matters has to be divided, as one handle the game through military units and the other via the negotiation screen. We need to reestablish this divide.

The Foreign Affairs, Trade and certain high level state functions should be transferred to the new State Consul. This Consul should cover all foreign relation strategies, all trade policies based on national security, Mobilization, War Economy and, as well as espionage activities.

Victory Conditions: Diplomatic Victory (This consul leads discussions on how to win this strategy option)

External Consul will retain all military strategies as well as military strategies (strategic level unit movement, builds, and upgrades).
Victory Conditions Domination and Conquest Victories

Finance and Technology Consul will retain the long term technology planning, as well as all financial policies pertaining to taxation and slider, as well as Space Race planning, Capital location and Forbidden Palace location as well as policies for dealing with corruption.

Victory conditions: Space Race

Domestic Consul will retain territorial planning, provincial planning, nominating governors and lobbying for long term construction patterns. Domestic will also take responsibility for all wonder discussions, since Wonder builds must be aligned with a number of settler builds, and one office needs to oversee both. Provincial planning are also closely linked to culture wars, with a Seafaring/Commerce culture, Culture Consul does not belong in this game, as there are no director to work with, no real powers to work with and no real relational structures or balances across the system.

Victory Conditions: Culture

I also do know that you guys added Culture Consul in the last minute, originally having only three Consuls, as you did not know how to make room for a fourth one.
I would dare to say Culture Consul is something we really do not need.

 

[Sarevok]

well, that can work.

 

[Black_Hole]

Assesment of Term One Cabinet Structure and elections, as well as balance of mandates, powers and Consul-Director relationships

We got 3 somewhat balanced consul positions and one redundant. The close race for external consul and technology and trade consuls prove that these are heavily contested, moderately for the Domestic and even less for culture.

The best way to make more incentive for future elections is to remove Culture Consul totally from the game, and transfer culture wars to governors and wonder discussions to technology and trade.

However, many players would like to see the Foreign Affairs and Trade Department reestablished. This would require the External Consul and the Technology and Trade Consul to cede away power to a new Consul position. Military and Foreign Affairs/Trade/State matters has to be divided, as one handle the game through military units and the other via the negotiation screen. We need to reestablish this divide.

The Foreign Affairs, Trade and certain high level state functions should be transferred to the new State Consul. This Consul should cover all foreign relation strategies, all trade policies based on national security, Mobilization, War Economy and, as well as espionage activities.

Victory Conditions: Diplomatic Victory (This consul leads discussions on how to win this strategy option)

External Consul will retain all military strategies as well as military strategies (strategic level unit movement, builds, and upgrades).
Victory Conditions Domination and Conquest Victories

Finance and Technology Consul will retain the long term technology planning, as well as all financial policies pertaining to taxation and slider, as well as Space Race planning, Capital location and Forbidden Palace location as well as policies for dealing with corruption.

Victory conditions: Space Race

Domestic Consul will retain territorial planning, provincial planning, nominating governors and lobbying for long term construction patterns. Domestic will also take responsibility for all wonder discussions, since Wonder builds must be aligned with a number of settler builds, and one office needs to oversee both. Provincial planning are also closely linked to culture wars, with a Seafaring/Commerce culture, Culture Consul does not belong in this game, as there are no director to work with, no real powers to work with and no real relational structures or balances across the system.

Victory Conditions: Culture

I also do know that you guys added Culture Consul in the last minute, originally having only three Consuls, as you did not know how to make room for a fourth one.
I would dare to say Culture Consul is something we really do not need.

Culture was one of the first positions.... Actually all current positions were made by DaveShack.
Culture is really involved with all short term planners. They oversee culture during a war(Commander of Armed Forces), they oversee culture when placing cities(Director of Expansion), they monitor culture when trades and foreign relations are being done(director of commerce)
the only director that culture doesnt overlook is Infrastructure...

Also the Domestic Consul shouldnt nominate governors, governors are elected...

 

[Provolution]

Still, I believe in the need to reestablish Foreign Affairs as independent, and make culture part of domestic planning.

 

[Strider]

Let's just screw this pointless discussion, as it's not getting anywhere any time soon. As far as I can tell, we have no one willing to lead, and no one willing to make the decisions.

At this rate were have a constitution by DG7.

 

[Black_Hole]

Let's just screw this pointless discussion, as it's not getting anywhere any time soon. As far as I can tell, we have no one willing to lead, and no one willing to make the decisions.

At this rate were have a constitution by DG7.

i see so you are wanting to use your proposal?

 

[Provolution]

I think Daveshack is wise enough to see that we really can omit culture and reestablsh FA-Trade.

 

[Strider]

i see so you are wanting to use your proposal?

If I didn't think it was a good idea, then I wouldn't have proposed it. Atleast I'm willing to take the leadership role, and it's fully operational as a result.

Now take a look at how far you've progressed.

 

[Black_Hole]

I think Daveshack is wise enough to see that we really can omit culture and reestablsh FA-Trade.

we have already elected positions, for the first term atleast we cant change the offices, only the desription...
so does anyone have comments on what i outlined last page?

 

[Provolution]

I know positions are locked for term one. But workloadwise, we need an amendment as I described to balance out offices. Mostly to make more people interested in running.

 

[Black_Hole]

next version:

Article X. The government will consist of four layers of government. These layers of government are the Strategic layer, Tactical layer, and the Administrative layer.


Article X. The Strategic layer consists of the President, the Vice President,
and the Consuls. The Consuls, as listed below, are in tasked with
deciding on the broader picture of how $COUNTRY_NAME will operate.
The President leads the Strategic layer and leads discussions
involving more than one Strategic Consul. The majority of the Strategic
layer's policy is based on discussions and polls.

1. President - Leads discussions crossing over multiple areas of different
Consuls. He/she will also decide on any strategic tasks not designated to
another consul in this constitution. The President is the primary designated player. He/she has the following responsibilities, and may appoint a citizen to oversee a responsibility: Naming of Cities and Units, Elections, and Polling Standards. These appointed officials remain in office until removed by a President.

2. Vice President - Assistant to the President. He/she may take over the
President's tasks when the President is absent. If the President should be
removed from office for any reason the Vice President will then take the position of President and appoint a Vice President. The Vice President must be approved by a majority of the consuls, if the Vice President is appointed mid-term.

3. Consul for Domestic Policy - Oversees long term settlement, long term worker plans, and long term build queues goals(not specific goals). Also in charge of government switches.

4. Consul for External Policy - Oversees long term planning of policy regarding other nations. This includes military plans, long term foreign affairs, and long term trading goals. Pushes for military improvements.

5. Consul for Cultural Policy - Monitors culture. Pushes for culture improvements. Fits science and religous improvements into the big picture. Develops wonder strategy.

6. Consul for Resources and Technology Policy - Decides on long term tech queues, long term resource policies, long term rushing(in governments where gold is used to rush) policies, and long term slider plans.


Article X. The Tactical layer consists of the the officials in charge of micromanagement of the game, within the boundaries of the Strategic layer's policy. The Tactical layer is not required to receive instructions from the people as long as their policy is within that of the Strategic layer's. However any citizen my start a discussion about the decision of a Tactical Leader. The Tactical layer is consisted of the officials below.

1. Commander of Armed Forces - Micromanages the military operations against foreign countries and unit (excluding worker, settler, and non-military transport) movements.

2. Director of Commerce - Decides on foreign affairs and trading. Sets exact tech queue. Adjusts slider and approves/denies requests from governors regarding rushes(in a government requiring gold to rush). Also decides on espionage missions.

3. Director of Infrastructure - Controls the worker actions. Reviews requests from governors about worker requests and accepts/denies these.

4. Director of Expansion - Decides on where to settle with settlers.

5. Governors - Manages citizens in cities under his/her control and the build queues. May request rushes from the Director of Commerce, and request worker actions from the Director of Infrastrucute.


Article X. The Administrative layer consists of officials not directly related to the gameplay of the game.
The Chief Justice, Judge Advocate, and Public defender make up the court. They are tasked with
upholding, protecting, and clarifying the constitution and the code of laws. Court procedures
may be made by any court by having two out of the three justices agreeing. The Court procedures
must comply with the constitution and code of laws. The Court procedures can be treated as
a set of laws below the Code of Laws.

1. Chief Justice - Organizes and heads the affairs and discussions of the court. May take place of other Justices if there is no pro-term justice.

2. Judge Advocate - Prosecutes Citizen Complaints if the Citizen Complaint is filed anonymously
or the accuser wishes to have the Judge Advocate prosecute. He/she ensures CCs are following
constitution, code of laws, and court procedures guidelines.

3. Public Defender - Acts as Chief Attorney for the accused, unless the accused wishes otherwise.
Ensures the accused understands his/her rights and the accusation.

 

[Provolution]

For term one, this will work, please add in Espionage actities as well.

 

[Black_Hole]

For term one, this will work, please add in Espionage actities as well.

done
It is under commerce, but is there any way espionage could be long term? If so i should add a line under External Consul

 

[MOTH]

I think that the discussion of Provinicial Borders should be under the Domestic Consul.

Also, the point about government switches. The planing and criteria should be Domestic Consul, but the specific timing should be the Director of Commerce.

There should also be a note that the Director of Expansion position is eliminated (absorbed in the Domestic Consul position?) once we have finished the expansion phase.

Everything else looks good to me.

 

[Provolution]

yes, External Consul would be the place for Term One, but now you see how extreme unbalances there are in workloads between offices on the various levels.
Foreign Affairs and Trade will be very heavy Term 2 and onwards, and culture has always been too light and redundant.

 

[Strider]

Article X. The Strategic layer consists of the President, the Vice President,
and the Consuls. The Consuls, as listed below, are in tasked with
deciding on the broader picture of how $COUNTRY_NAME will operate.
The President leads the Strategic layer and leads discussions
involving more than one Strategic Consul. The majority of the Strategic
layer's policy is based on discussions and polls.

1. President - Leads discussions crossing over multiple areas of different
Consuls. He/she will also decide on any strategic tasks not designated to
another consul in this constitution. The President is the primary designated player. He/she has the following responsibilities, and may appoint a citizen to oversee a responsibility: Naming of Cities and Units, Elections, and Polling Standards. These appointed officials remain in office until removed by a President.

Your opening statement and your first section is redunant. You repeat the same thing twice in the same article, it's bad enough when it's done in the constitution as a whole.

2. Vice President - Assistant to the President. He/she may take over the
President's tasks when the President is absent. If the President should be
removed from office for any reason the Vice President will then take the position of President and appoint a Vice President. The Vice President must be approved by a majority of the consuls, if the Vice President is appointed mid-term.

This should just say that the Vice President acts as the Presidents deputy. Well not even that, there shouldn't even be a single thing about the Vice President inside of this entire article. It should all be covered in an article about deputies. Useless information.

3. Consul for Domestic Policy - Oversees long term settlement, long term worker plans, and long term build queues goals(not specific goals). Also in charge of government switches.

This poistion is useless, the only thing that actually matters in this is settlement, and by Term 3 that will be useless also. The governors will continue to control every aspect of there queues, and are prefectly capable of handling the long-term affairs of there province. Other than that, long-term worker actions? Who cares what are workers are going to be doing 20 turns from now, as long as it's something useful.

4. Consul for External Policy - Oversees long term planning of policy regarding other nations. This includes military plans, long term foreign affairs, and long term trading goals. Pushes for military improvements.

Another useless, and pointless poistion. First off, long-term policy regarding other nations would be more of a guessing game than anything else. The long-term trading goals has me wondering what the hell is going on here, what long-term trading goals? Are we allowed to play the save ahead now or something? Also, they can push for military improvements all they want, I doubt it'll get that far though.

5. Consul for Cultural Policy - Monitors culture. Pushes for culture improvements. Fits science and religous improvements into the big picture. Develops wonder strategy.

As Provo has been saying, useless and should be removed.

Article X. The Tactical layer consists of the the officials in charge of micromanagement of the game, within the boundaries of the Strategic layer's policy. The Tactical layer is not required to receive instructions from the people as long as their policy is within that of the Strategic layer's. However any citizen my start a discussion about the decision of a Tactical Leader. The Tactical layer is consisted of the officials below.

So this basicly says, that these elected officials make choices based on what our other elected officials say? Congratulations on achieving a new level of democracy.

1. Commander of Armed Forces - Micromanages the military operations against foreign countries and unit (excluding worker, settler, and non-military transport) movements.

The Micromanagement of this contains what? Where is the cut-off line between Long-term planning and micromanagement?

2. Director of Commerce - Decides on foreign affairs and trading. Sets exact tech queue. Adjusts slider and approves/denies requests from governors regarding rushes(in a government requiring gold to rush).

Isn't the slider more of a long-term affair? Also, wouldn't rushing not also be included as a long-term affair also?

3. Director of Infrastructure - Controls the worker actions. Reviews requests from governors about worker requests and accepts/denies these.

It's best to just put the DP incharge of worker actions, and let the governors request certain tiles to be worked. Get rid of it.

4. Director of Expansion - Decides on where to settle with settlers.

Wouldn't this be a long term affair also? Cause you know, once we place that city... it's going to be there for a LONG time.

5. Governors - Manages citizens in cities under his/her control and the build queues. May request rushes from the Director of Commerce, and request worker actions from the Director of Infrastrucute.

Governors are part of the legislative branch, not the executive. Unless there is some huge change going on, this shouldn't even be here.

Edit: Forgot about the adminstrative branch. I'll get to that right now. In the next post.

 

[Provolution]

Well, this is where I and Black Hole Agrees. We do indeed need a strategic and tactical layer, and Strider, there will be no compromise if you shoot this principle down.
I know from several ministries that the cooperation of minister and deputy worked just fine, and there is a big difference of long term and short term strategy discussions and polling. I believe we can amend the Alternate Proposal with balancing out offices and reestablishing the core Traditional principles.

A compromise GOT to have the strategy and tactical levels, as well as relating one victory condition long term to each Consul. Culture should be omitted, but External and
Technology/Finance/Trade is too strong.

 

[Strider]

Article X. The Administrative layer consists of officials not directly related to the gameplay of the game. The Chief Justice, Judge Advocate, and Public defender make up the court. They are tasked with upholding, protecting, and clarifying the constitution and the code of laws. Court procedures may be made by any court by having two out of the three justices agreeing. The Court procedures must comply with the constitution and code of laws. The Court procedures can be treated as
a set of laws below the Code of Laws.

The Chief Justice, Judge Advocate, and Public Defender make up the court? Well hell... it looks to me like they make up the entire Administrative layer.

1. Chief Justice - Organizes and heads the affairs and discussions of the court. May take place of other Justices if there is no pro-term justice.

Whatever happened to the Chief Justice appointing a pro-term justice?

2. Judge Advocate - Prosecutes Citizen Complaints if the Citizen Complaint is filed anonymously or the accuser wishes to have the Judge Advocate prosecute. He/she ensures CCs are following constitution, code of laws, and court procedures guidelines.

So the same person who is prosecutes the accused, also makes sure that it was a fair trial? This is better placed under the role of the Public Defender.

-------------

Also, what happened to the House? Who makes up our laws now?

 

[Strider]

Well, this is where I and Black Hole Agrees. We do indeed need a strategic and tactical layer, and Strider, there will be no compromise if you shoot this principle down. I know from several ministries that the cooperation of minister and deputy worked just fine, and there is a big difference of long term and short term strategy discussions and polling. I believe we can amend the Alternate Proposal with balancing out offices and reestablishing the core Traditional principles.

Well, from what I've read... the there is no "short term strategy discussion and polling." Also, what is the differance between long-term and short-term? Where is the line? I will continue to shoot down this principle as long as it continues to be unclear, worthless, and inefficient.