deity aw 3

100% GG appearance is very nice for this sort of thing, but with skirmishers the barb protection is IMO counterproductive. Barbs are free promotions.


I have a feeling that without a great spy, it's almost inevitable that you get crushed when the AI starts coming at you with trebuchets/knights/CR macement. I could be wrong though.
 
^You mostly defend against barbs, even with skirms it's a bit risky to attack them in the open let alone on a hill/forest. And defending against barbs doesn't help too much for promotions. You really want to build as few skirms as possible early game, you need the hammers for settlers/workers.Some 10 skirms early game are killing on maintenance. It's one of the things that makes aw so difficult, you need to fine tune the number of units you essentially need. Too few and you find out pretty early, too much and you will live for quite some time without hope.

Maybe we will be proven wrong in the future but i think aw is hopeless without an early gspy, no way to keep up in techs. What to do with the gspy is an interesting question, infiltrate or build scotland in capital (settle doesn't do enough i think).
 
^You mostly defend against barbs, even with skirms it's a bit risky to attack them in the open let alone on a hill/forest. And defending against barbs doesn't help too much for promotions. You really want to build as few skirms as possible early game, you need the hammers for settlers/workers.Some 10 skirms early game are killing on maintenance. It's one of the things that makes aw so difficult, you need to fine tune the number of units you essentially need. Too few and you find out pretty early, too much and you will live for quite some time without hope.

Maybe we will be proven wrong in the future but i think aw is hopeless without an early gspy, no way to keep up in techs. What to do with the gspy is an interesting question, infiltrate or build scotland in capital (settle doesn't do enough i think).

I think the answer to the GSpy question depends on whether you will generate a second one or not. For some reason i forgot that the gwall gives you gspy points. Perhaps that is the better play.

What I'd like to figure out is how you transition from defense to offense here. I gave this a quick whirl and was holding my own (or not) until

Spoiler :
the elepults showed up and just overwhelmed my second city
 
Totally forgot about the GG points, and prob lots more besides.

Anyhow I abandoned my first try after 56 turns due to losing the capital.

Spoiler :
I settled this city

Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

because the area around the more forward site I had originally planned:

Civ4ScreenShot0119.JPG

was swarming with green Charlie's units and I panicked :rolleyes:

But the first pic shows that the blocking nature of corn/flood, or something about it anyway, was insufficiently tempting. The first stack of 4 units (2 axe, 1 spear, 1 archer) had a try and all died :)woohoo:) but the next stack (axex2) and the next stack (6 units in the first pic) all walked past on to the capital. Which could not build skirms fast enough to hold. Is there some way the AI could know that my capital was lightly defended?

Anyway I'm going to reload and be more patient about getting banana/dye settled and see how it goes with that as the frontline. The capital will have to delay building the oracle for 3-4 extra skirms though since 10-12 units are headed that way.

More detail available if anyone's interested.
 
Spoiler :
Great Wall seems to go on turn 35 on this map so not much hope of getting it (or atleast on my last 3 tries its gone on that turn)


@Dirk
Spoiler :
Yup after 3 attempts and it going on turn 35 each time, my next game i didn't go for it and it went turn 47. I didn't think it did random seeds due to it being a save rather than wb, ie we carry on from his seed
 
Absolute who would you say was the best leader for Inca in AWs then? I'll do a WBsave and switching to that leader + inca instead, so people could try it. Should atleast be something for comparing that UU is more useful in the early game.
 
^Can you please put comments as to when wonders go in spoilers. It's not a given btw that it goes so early on every try, it also depends on the random seed and the way you tackle the game yourself.

@AZ, on deity you're not home if you conquer one civ. In a normal game you can use that land to expand, not here as expanding is only possible after having established a solid base. So it's likely the Ais will expand in the now open room. You don't have skirms now and will have to build a lot more archers to defend yourself.
 
@AZ, on deity you're not home if you conquer one civ. In a normal game you can use that land to expand, not here as expanding is only possible after having established a solid base. So it's likely the Ais will expand in the now open room. You don't have skirms now and will have to build a lot more archers to defend yourself.

Once you Quecha rush 1 civ I would go for BW and hope for copper, forget archers. You'd be amazed the difference between having 1 city and 3 cities in the early game, especially if the AI has nice land.

This is situational though because if the civ you take out is too far away then the maintenance costs will sink you before you can tech far enough.

But I have done many many many Quecha rushes on deity / normal speed / pangea and I can usually take out 1 civ around 3000 BC. The only exceptions being protective + hills or Mansa Musa / Hammarabi.


I would think a leader with the creative trait would be most usefull because border pops are a big issue that early.
 
I'm not sure how you would survive past turn 50 without protective skirmishers, let alone take and hold cities.
 
3 cities early game is an enormous difference of course. If you find copper you can try to defend with shock axes and the likes. I don't think you can stay on attack against the rest of the deity ais with only axes.

Sian suggested Gilgamesh of the mali for vultures and creative while keeping protective skirms. But financial seems to be very important for the format as you won't get science going without.
 
If Mali no Vultures :)

It has the advantage of descreasing the amount of stacks that will be sent against you later in the game too as 1 less civ around after the initial rush.
 
Once you Quecha rush 1 civ I would go for BW and hope for copper, forget archers. You'd be amazed the difference between having 1 city and 3 cities in the early game, especially if the AI has nice land.

This is situational though because if the civ you take out is too far away then the maintenance costs will sink you before you can tech far enough.

But I have done many many many Quecha rushes on deity / normal speed / pangea and I can usually take out 1 civ around 3000 BC. The only exceptions being protective + hills or Mansa Musa / Hammarabi.


I would think a leader with the creative trait would be most usefull because border pops are a big issue that early.

obs and i have tried quite some combos (uu, leaders, starting techs). and the only strat that really seems to work up to now is somewhat skirmisher based, but it would be cool if you could prove me wrong (you cant compare a normal deity game to deity aw... ...and i cant see you surviving without spamming protective archers to be honest, axes and such dont do you much good, at least in my experience)

-> feel free to launch a deity aw 4 with a different leader if you want
 
I took a shot. Up to T41 (1 more over the proposed break point sorry)

I can sometimes beat Immortal, never played Deity...sooo :) :) :)

Spoiler :


Ok as I got it the basic strategy revolves around Oracle->CoL and TGW.
With gems... I took a shot at TGW and slowly work on Oracle too :).

I have some SS's from the game...

Met Ethiopia at this point
Spoiler :




Met Native America at this point
Spoiler :




city number 2 at this point
Spoiler :




i suppose that's spot where everyone will eventually end ;-).

Currently I am 7T TGW, but chopping forest in south west corner so I hope i will get the TGW.

Spoiler :





Surprisingely quiet, so I hope I will get some skirmisher in city 2... i am not so sure about switching into slavery yet.

There is surprising good land behind which should make strong core.
Now that I think about it... I don't see copper! :-D Didn't tech AH yet, so maybe there could be some horsey somewhere...

with Ivory the thought should be elepults... if it would be on Emperor I would actually would hope for victory, being it on deity... well :)

 
Up to turn 14 (just to try a bit before opening the other spoilers, as I said I mostly plan on lurking interested in here). :)
Spoiler :
Tech: Hunting >> Archery (for early Skirmisher) >> (??? next?)
Spoiler :

Capital: SIP >> Worker(12) >> started Barracks(just 4:hammers:) >> *Skirmisher (??? I Guess)
Spoiler :
Worker: started improving the closer Ivory
Game Save attached.

Greetings,
yatta.
 
@yatta77

Spoiler :
Argiculture next as the nearby resources for the 2nd city as well as in your Capitol need it, skip AH thou and mine the pigs for now. After that masonry for TGW or head to Priesthood for Oracle. Build another skirmisher and then a settler I think. Note I'm still very new to AW so could be wrong :p
 
@Dirk

actually ... i suggested someone (SB prehaps? for protective archers and philo so you can run a good espionage game) of Sumer ... not giggles of Mali
 
Until turn 35

Spoiler :

This is the best start i've seen sofar. I rolled some reasonable starts myself at home but none like this one. So maybe this is the one. I decide to try for GW anyway as this is a very good start for getting it early. Tech: AG->Masonry->BW->Hunting->Archery, improved tiles: farm corn, mine pig , get gems online. I counted on only one chop so gems first than pig loses 8 H.

Meanwhile my warrior scouted along the southern coastline. He gets attacked by a panther and then destroys an enemy scout at reasonable odds. This gets him to woodsman II and that means trying for a free worker. I find Cathy of the natives pretty soon after and snatch a worker way before 3000 BC, He's back home in time to help with chopping and roading. Since i get another chop in now i get GW turn 35, would have been 2 turns later without the extra worker.

A nice point to stop, i think i'll put on a settler right now while waiting for archery alternatively i can can grow to 6 first building a barrack, then build a skirmisher and a settler. That site 4W2S of capital can get productive very fast after corn is farmed so i don't really want to delay a settler from this point. Maybe oracle is still on but i don't know if it helps so much here, it's 150 H again and there are some good spots to settle.



 

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@ dirk:

great start,
Spoiler :
i didnt manage to snatch a worker myself. i went ag-hunting-archery-pottery, not even trying the gw. maybe a mistake. i opted for the same blocking spot (the one down there in the jungle, but had bad luck with a barbcity spawning and then stopped playing... ...i´ll try a bit more playing with my start, but i´m really tempted to go on with yours since its much stronger)

i will open the next turnset shortly, up to t60, feel free to play it already (i´m curious how it will work and if you will get the blocking site in the jungle secured)



@AZ:
the real problem we always faced without skirms started around 1AD-500AD. at a certain point our archers always got crushed via cats + has or alternatively phants, later maces, trebs knights, since they simply didnt have enough base-strength and going with sheer numbers on the other side resulted in an economical breakdown (dealying lbs for too long...). i will have a look at your start anyways later, but to really convince me, need to show me a game where you lived and teched long enough to get over this critical stage (say up to around 800 AD, having enough lb´s to be save and ready to go on the offence against the ais)
 
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