Deity Isolated = Nightmare?

[Izuul]

@Izuul: How did you ever

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fit 17 cities onto that continent? I made 9, and have place for 2 more. I'm genuinely curious!

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15 on the continent and 2 islands. One of the island cities is pure trash (no food), but it contributed a lot of trade route gold with the GLH.

I don't have a zoomed out pic of all 17, but i have a 100 AD screen shot with 12 cities and the locations marked for the other 5.

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This is where i am currently, but you can only seen about 2/3 of the continent.

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Spain at 25 cities

I haven't really done any detailed micro or anything in this game. I find i rarely enjoy doing that while i play any longer.

 

[Fippy]

Not much time currently, but some progress (850BC)

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Overview

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Delhi had 1 Great Merchant, 40% chance scientist would have been better i think..bulbed currency, was that smart?

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This city doing well

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Teched Monarchy, 2 more happy with wine.
Barb galley lol moment, at least my settler arrived

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[Izuul]

@Fippy

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I went for Monarchy and accidentally did Med > PH instead of Poly > PH which blocked me from being able to go for CoL and still bulb Astro later. I wish i had done that differently. Even if you dont' build any courthouses, being able to switch b/t Slavery and Caste with Spiritual is really nice. I assume Confucianism has already been founded?

 

[Fippy]

Not putting this in spoilers Izuul, i think it's general info.

I took Medi as well, on purpose.
My plan is bulbing Philo, and taking Astro with Lib instead.
I can then also take CS on the way, and Paci should help generating enuf GP.
(2x Edu, 1x Lib bulb before machinery).

That being said, i think i need to use scientists instead of gold (and give that to other cities like Delhi) in Vij, so i can be sure i get the Philo GS.

 

[Izuul]

I thought about that route. I'll be interested to see how it works out.

 

[Fippy]

Have played to 375 BC, Philo bulb worked okay

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Using Delhi now with Paci, gold given to other cities

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With Bur i will change that around again, funny gold costs even made me built / chop a market oO

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Did spread Tao here (Delhi got auto), nice food city for more specialists just finishing last settler from here.

 

[Izuul]

@Fippy

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Nice that you were able to get your own religion. Philo + Pacifism will be very nice. Your last photo didn't upload!

I'm at 1030 AD in my own game.

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I just can't help but attack people when i play Civ, so here goes the start of the war campaign. It's probably going to be brutal fighting on another continent against AIs with 20+ cities, but I'm gonna go for it anyway.

Got MT Lib in 1010 and a merchant to upgrade some horse archers (which BAT has taken the liberty to rename Horsemen) the following turn. I switched out of caste and into slavery + free religion the turn after i got the GM. I've got 6-7 HAs now and I'm gonna build/whip some more along with some galleons and then probably attack Justinian. I don't know how many Cuirs i will need to start the war... He lacks CS but of course has Feudalism and Engineering. He can also tech GP, but that's not really a big deal on it's own because muskets aren't really any scarier than LB defenders.

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I'm kind of hoping i can transition to something like cavalry + airships later, but Communism will also be needed here for State Property unless i plan to gift all cities back.

 

[georgjorge]

@Izuul:

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Nice getting Liberalism that late! In my game as well the other AIs had many cities but were mostly very backwards for this stage of the game.

I'm not really sold on two-move units in intercontinental invasions, you have all those ships anyway so might as well use them to ferry 1-move units (including siege) around and use some Frigates for bombardment.

As to my game...

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I rage-quit.

Not because the game is lost or without hope. But it already took a lot of ferrying around troops to get all of them on the one tile on Ragnar's island near his stack not covered by his culture. His stack was about 40 units. So after getting my own 40ish stack there (medieval units + Cannons + couple of Rifles) JUST AS I AM GETTING READY TO ATTACK (about 1250AD) his culture pops once more, covering the tile, and I would have to get all my ships there again, whip some more of them, put them onboard etc...I just couldn't bear it.

A sad ending for such a nice build-up.

 

[Izuul]

@Izuul:

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Nice getting Liberalism that late! In my game as well the other AIs had many cities but were mostly very backwards for this stage of the game.

I'm not really sold on two-move units in intercontinental invasions, you have all those ships anyway so might as well use them to ferry 1-move units (including siege) around and use some Frigates for bombardment.

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Yeah I'm not really either, but if i had gone for Cannons the best case scenario would've been Lib Chemistry. Here i traded for Music while teching Nationalism in a golden age and generating a GS to help bulb Education. Things worked out like this:

840 Poly (1T)
860 Lit (1T) -massive beaker OF into next tech
880 Music - trade (also triggered golden age with great person from Delhi)
920 Nationalism
940 Great scientist
960 Education
1010 Lib - it says 1000 in the log for some reason, but i selected MT on 1010. golden age ended on this turn

If i had gone the other direction i would've needed to trade for Engineering immediately, tech Edu first to open up Gunpowder and i wouldn't have been able to get a GS in time to help bulb Edu. Then i would've needed to tech GP and Lib to take Chem followed by researching Steel which is showing as about 7T. I think i would've either gotten Lib on the same date or 1T later (GP is cheaper than Nationalism + Poly + Lit), but i lose the GS bulb beakers. All things considered, i probably could've gotten Steel 7T later than MT.

Of course i still need Gunpowder here, but i usually tech that kind of slowly while i get ready to upgrade units anyway. I dunno, we will see how it goes.

 

[Fippy]

475 AD save, you can compare the Lib way now Izuul
Been fun, but will also be loads of work now.
I can understand why you did quit @gj, over sea invasions are surely special.

I think i might play on thou.

 

[Fippy]

Some thoughts

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I wonder how far i should go with cheaper Unis & Harbors here, probably all those buildings make sense in cities that have food (and there are so many on this map lol).

Would have loved a stone trade for Ox..hmmm maybe i chopped those forests too soon for an Observatory in Delhi? It's quiet tempting with Unis not being a huge burden.

Will be no trades for quiet some time, most AIs not even have Compass how will they meet each other..

I could try Nat + Constitution for Rep. too, and maybe Tech until Transports, Marines Destroyers and stuff like that, makes war easy on sea maps. Beakers output could be raised high enuf here.

 

[Fippy]

Have a last pic of Ox, i then got bored soon after cos there was too much waiting to get towards techs for Destroyers and stuff

And there was not much doubt i would reach them way before AIs, maybe that was the wrong path for entertainment.
But I was not in the mood for naval invasions with galleons.
Ah well, thanks for playing

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[shakabrade]

My pitiful attempt

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I announced to play this one without wonders, and, in pursue of awe wanted to show how conquest without going nuclear on peoples is possible even with slow start. But, I didn't expect that Spain would be at 25 cities round continent without any choke points to make war easier (My, My, My My, admit that you knew, admit! ). Other AIs were easy to handle, but Spain had too much production and too many inland cities so Fighter + Marine would probably not work, especially because Spain was at 25 cities and would be connected with railroads by that time.

Anyway, I still tried and attacked Spain first to try and break them while they were still relatively stretched and not that advanced, with rifles and cannons around 1350AD (pretty late for that composition but figured out that was the only army I could send to her while Izzy is not invincible). Managed to take Barcelona and Valencia and then endless waves of conquistadors started corroding my army. I figured out it was pointless to just reinforce in place. As I said, all others were manageable, Byzantium had many choke points and others aren't worth mentioning as they were too backwards. Izzy was in Theocracy and couldn't get her a third religion so that maybe she goes for culture.

GLH and/or Colossus would probably enable 1000AD invasion which would easily beat Spain and win that conquest. Maybe I'll try again.

Some screenies throughout the game:

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@Fippy

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Very very strong position but I wonder why you didn't take Fish+Crab island.
You had GLH... It was probably a 5th 7th city for me and really a strong one.

Regarding invasion, you could easily get to pre 1300AD Tanks + Airships, later +Bombers.
Tanks get blitz and then you have basically twice the number of units and less tedium.
Yeah, you definitely can pull it off with one or two Friendly AIs for trade (Dutch and Byzantium are easy to please).

 

[Fippy]

Brave try Shaka, yep GLH makes all the difference.
Isa with Conqs and so many cities, very tough and they also get defensive bonuses.
2nd island city..when i got ready i almost had Astro, lol.

I dunno, something was missing there for motivation late in my game.
You can either go thru grind mills by attacking early, or build and wait for superior stuff like you described. But you have stuck in your mind that when you have Tanks etc. you are building up for easy wars with not much challenge.

I should have tried what i thought first, diplo victory.
Mass Media is expensive too, but only 1 path.
Justi and Isa would give plenty diplo points for Theocracy, Ragnar with HR and i guess that could have been enuf.

+ i still have to complete botm 109, also an island map.
That one is fun, you could play that instead of trying this map again

 

[shakabrade]

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Brave try Shaka, yep GLH makes all the difference.
Isa with Conqs and so many cities, very tough and they also get defensive bonuses.
2nd island city..when i got ready i almost had Astro, lol.

I dunno, something was missing there for motivation late in my game.
You can either go thru grind mills by attacking early, or build and wait for superior stuff like you described. But you have stuck in your mind that when you have Tanks etc. you are building up for easy wars with not much challenge.

I should have tried what i thought first, diplo victory.
Mass Media is expensive too, but only 1 path.
Justi and Isa would give plenty diplo points for Theocracy, Ragnar with HR and i guess that could have been enuf.

+ i still have to complete botm 109, also an island map.
That one is fun, you could play that instead of trying this map again

Diplo with Gandhi, My, too easy. You can easily bulb yourself to that position.

IMO, tough war is not satisfying, only winning the game after tough war is.
OTOH, easy war is satisfying and then seeing yourself in dominant position for the whole game makes you egotrip really high.

Regarding BOTM, I tried yesterday evening and f****d up. My mind was so fried after whole day with this and parallely that Pangaea Ottoman game I finished that I forgot to turn science slider back on until worker was out, also my first archer lost to 19% odds, also forgot to switch civics with settler out and also forgot that expansive leaders don't need 4 pop to whip a granary. After that I lost my motivation as meeting the deadline is really challenging with work week ahead and next weekend is already filled too. Knowing that the game is already pretty ruined is not motivational.

The biggest mistake is hitting the end turn before having a clear picture what you want to do. If you lack composure, simply save and exit! But easier said than done.
I should have waited until today to get some rest, but curiosity killed the M(e)ao(w).

 

[georgjorge]

What's this talk about choke points I hear? I understand the importance of choke points when defending my own territory, but I'm not sure how to use them in an intercontinental attack. Could you give me some hints?

 

[MegaLurker]

I wonder if it's possible to beat a 25+ city DeityAI to space. I was going to try, but I guess Sitting Bull didn't appreciate me settling his island and I'm not sure I'll bother re-loading to get a peaceful win with the ability to see into the future

I think it's possible, though. I had a pretty good tech lead even with a very late Astro lib date (~1000AD). Each AI being isolated until Optics, which not a single AI prioritized in my game, along with the GLighthouse...it becomes a straightforward builder's game unless you have the patience to do overseas invasions x5.

Although I might have found it easier when I lucked into silver:

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But also popped Iron in the capital

This map is 100% winnable. What's up with the number of barb spears in this game, though? Madness. I had to research Archery in the ADs

 

[shakabrade]

What's this talk about choke points I hear? I understand the importance of choke points when defending my own territory, but I'm not sure how to use them in an intercontinental attack. Could you give me some hints?

One example: if there is a choke point, then you can take enemy city at a choke point and park your SoD outside of it. If your SoD is too large, AI will simply retake its former city and park all its units in it. Then you bombard it and take all of its army out at once. You can simultaneously open another front with fast units which can take multiple cities practically unopposed. That is very quick capitulation. In this game, you can get attacked from all sides and your reinforcements cannot come and merge with your SoD as they will be killed along the way.

Anyway, map shape plays a big part. That's why islands mapscripts are always easy (ok and less production with less land).

 

[shakabrade]

@Megalurker

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I wonder if it's possible to beat a 25+ city DeityAI to space. I was going to try, but I guess Sitting Bull didn't appreciate me settling his island and I'm not sure I'll bother re-loading to get a peaceful win with the ability to see into the future

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You easily can as you also have friendly Justy and Willem to help you. Together you can tech like crazy and there is enough land for workshops. You can have 10 cities with +30 base and some with 50.
Aslo, if you take some cities from Sitting bull or Raggy, not many will object.

 

[MegaLurker]

@Shaka

I had wondered which would be stronger:

-Communism, workshop/watermill everything (granted, there aren't a lot of river tiles for us here)

-Economics, ride those extra Free Market overseas trade routes as long as possible

In the end I took to long to decide and was forced to go for Communism because I'd been beaten to Economics already. Then I couldn't decide what to do with the GSpy. Is it even worth doing any espionage when you're the tech leader in the game? Probably not. Probably a golden age, then. Extra production into building wealth vs. more mature cottages...long term I bet cottages win out. Assuming they're worked for >100 turns.


You know, on second thought I might re-load this game and play to a space victory. Just to say I once had a Deity win where I didn't have a single farmed tile the entire game Pretty unusual map to even allow that to be practical. The dilemma is...if I re-load far back enough to avoid war, do I still get my sweet sweet silver and iron?