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Deity Level Succession Game

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Prof. Garfield, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    When I subtract 62 (I counted the number in the new save, and they match) from 96 I get 34 beakers, not 44. If we take the Toledo citizen off the ocean when the settler is built, we will have 8 science/turn. In 5 turns this gets us 40 (and only 32 the turn before) beakers, enough to do a 1 turn revolution.

    I would change Madrid production from settler to trireme. Madrid will have trouble making up the food for settler building, but can produce 5 shields at size 2, which is a very nice production level. A trireme in the early game is very nice for transporting settlers, and this geography gives us plenty of coastal places to settle (not to mention we can cross the western inlet with it, allowing us the ability to establish a presence on the other side, which might be useful as there seems to be a civ somewhere on the other side).
     
  2. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    *facepalm* My bad! I definitely needed some rest. TGIF!

    And I also forgot to mention that while blackclicking, :mischief: that I ''discovered'' an island (land mass 13) somewhere 10-15 squares N/NW of Madrid, IIRC.



    I also think we should set Madrid in building militia/food caravans after it builds a Trireme in order to provide martial law for other cities (if we need to take out/contain the nearby civ, then the Legions providing order in some of our cities could maybe come useful (not that it is always useful...) If that happens, it will create the need for Warriors from Madrid in order to keep the order (rehome as needed) This is assuming we will stay in Monarchy until Mikes.

    Otherwise, after going Trireme (we maybe would need to build 2 of them is we do not get Trade in time) But where should we build the wonder? I'm thinking Toledo, because it is far away from possible settling spots in our home continent and it has access to 3 specials. As for the wonder choice... currently undecided between HG and MPE... what do you think?
     
  3. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I agree that Madrid should build militia after it finishes the trireme (I don't think the marginal benefit of a second trireme will be very high for a while), and send them off to be rehomed, particularly as this will save the effort of producing martial law units in cities with higher food production.

    I would let Madrid produce 2 shields next turn, then rush to 20. When the Monarchy is established, it should then have 28 shields, a nice multiple of 3.

    Rather than "taking out" our neighbours, I would demand tribute from them. Consult this page for more info. With the legions, we should have more attack power than they have units.

    I would build Marco's first. If we then want to build HG, we could trade for Pottery instead of having to research it ourselves. We should also acquire a tech with a 30s unit (preferably writing). I'd rather do this by trade than by research, and getting MPE will get us to general tech trading faster.

    Typically, when I choose where to build a wonder, it depends on the order and time that the caravans to build it will be complete, and so the wonder is usually built in the city where the last caravan is complete. For most wonders, the city you build it in is irrelevant. HG has a little relevance, and it looks like Toledo will be a bit larger than our other cities for a while, unless we find a site for an SSC.

    That being said, I wouldn't tie up Toledo's production in a wonder. It's wheat can give it decent food production in Monarchy, and the oil will give good shield production, so I think it's worth while to build settlers there and ship them out by trireme, at least once or twice more.
     
  4. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

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    I would agree that MPE should probably be the first wonder.

    My question is when should we spend some time developing the land (like roading and irrigating the Wheat, mining the Oil, etc)?
     
  5. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Now seems like a good time, actually. The Toledo settler can walk to the canal location in 8-9 turns. If we follow my plan for rushing the trireme, it will be done in 9 turns, and can pick up a settler from the wheat square on the 10th turn, and have the settler dropped off on the 13th turn. We would thus get 9 turns of improvements (including walking time between them, however) while only being delayed 5 turns for settling. As an added bonus, with judicious rushing we could probably arrange to have a second settler ready to be transported on the trireme.

    Now the question comes to improvement options. There are 2 possibilities that can be done in 9 turns and end on the wheat, assuming only 1 settler works. One is to put a road on the oil, and then put a road on the wheat. The other option is to road and irrigate the wheat.

    Of the 2 options, I think fully improving the wheat is the better option, because otherwise we'll have to send other settlers to both locations, and not just 1.

    I THINK (not positive) that if we arrange for Seville to produce a settler as soon as it reaches size 2, it could road the oil and make it to the wheat square in time to be picked up by the trireme. I'm not sure if it is possible (if we also rush several shields on the trireme), or wise, to build the settler so soon, but it is something to think about.

    It would take 4 turns for a settler from Seville to walk to the wheat square directly. If we want that settler to board the trireme, we'll have to arrange for it to be finished in 5 turns. The only other option for a second settler would be to rush another one in Toledo (no point in sending one from Valencia, because the city is near unsettled terrain).

    As usual, in the end it is the player's decision what to do.
     
  6. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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    I wasn't sure about that settler in Madrid anyway. The city is just not suitable for supporting it at this point, especially after the hut with map making. I was thinking at the point when I discovered code of laws that maybe the better choice would be next to choose writing to get 30 shield unit, but then realized that monarchy takes precedence. If we're lucky, maybe the other civ can provide writing, either via exchange or conquest. I think it's very important to establish a contact asap since it has the potential to change our strategy at this point dramatically. If we encounter a hostile civ with offensive units, we might have to move the legions quickly and maybe produce some defensive units in our western cities. If, however, it is a peaceful nation, we might be offered a chance of tech exchange or at least gift them map making and swap maps. Either way, I think establishing the contact is a priority.
     
  7. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

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    Jokemaster...

    Are you going to play next?
     
  8. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Oh, sorry! Forgot to specify that I will need a few more days before I am ready... underestimated the amount of work I had to do in this weekend. Hopefully it'll be done tomorrow. I'm alright with someone possibly playing my turns, if that happens.
     
  9. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

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    If it is okay with everyone, I'll go next. Then Jokemaster can go after I am done.
     
  10. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Go for it; we don't have an order yet anyway, and Jokemaster hasn't started playing the turns.
     
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    I'm done with my work, and will now start my 15 turns. Hopefully I can post the results today.
     
  12. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    1900 BC (turn 0) Cancel order for warrior to return to Cordoba. Switch Madrid production to Trireme. Rush 8 shields in Seville. Switch Valencia worker to forest (was working unshielded, unimproved grass) Switch Cordoba worker to buffalo (I want to road that square when Cordoba produces a settler... do you think I should take the time to irrigate that square too?) T4L0S6

    I can't play more turns today for family-related reasons. Sorry! Will continue tomorrow.

    And on a side note: I have a bit of an issue with Classic saying that ''my file name are not valid'' when I try to save my games (seems to happen when the savename is ''too long'' per example) Am I missing something obvious or...?
     
  13. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Either the file name is too long or it is using characters that aren't allowed. I think MGE is much more "permissive" with file names. My saves were named using default classic names. If you don't get a similar default name when saving, it's probably a holdover from the MGE programming. You'll have to come up with a different name if the MGE defaults are not permitted.
     
  14. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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    Classic civ allows a maximum of 8 symbols in the name, I believe it's the result of it being a 16bit application. It still recognizes longer names though, if the names were set via for example windows explorer. It will display them with the last 2 letters of save name replaced by ~1, so it's savega~1.sav but the real name is still displayed correctly under windows.
     
  15. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

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    Well, I actually played 15 turns last night, but I didn't have time to make a comment that I was done.

    Jokemaster, It looks like you only played 1900BC. Do you want to play your turns or do you want to pick up after the turns I played? Let me know. I can post my log or just keep it to myself to compare with your results.
     
  16. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Haleewud, post your turns and the save. If he's already played, then they won't change his decisions anyway, and we can find some way to chose between the two. If he hasn't played more than what he posted, it will be quicker if he can download your game immediately, rather than post he wants your game and wait for you to respond.
     
  17. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    I'm still at turn number 1... haven't restarted due to lack of time. Will play anyway in case that haleewud does not post the save until I finish my 15 turns and post that.

    EDIT: I'm done with my ''precautionary measures'' but can't post anything now... need to go.
     
  18. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Haleewud has played the fifteen turns, and you haven't (yet). Be patient and wait for him to post before playing. There is no point in having several people play the same set of turns. Haleewud isn't exactly "missing in action" at this point; I doubt very much there will be much of a delay.
     
  19. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

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    Before hitting end of turn for 1900BC, I changed Madrid to build a Trireme.

    1850BC (1) Sioux horseman appears near Madrid/Cordoba. Sioux are Power Level 4. Peace offered and accepted. I ask for an Alliance, they want Map Making, given. Maps are exchanged, I request a gift and get 50g. We are now Supreme. Tech Cost has reduced to 90. Toledo builds settler, moves toward wheat. IPRB Madrid 8 shields, Seville 2sh+10sh. Valencia works coal (3 shields).
    1800BC (2) T/L/S = 5/0/5 to delay monarchy to OEDO.
    1750BC (3) Toledo settler starts road on wheat. IPRB Salamanca 2sh+10sh
    1700BC (4) Road complete.
    1650BC (5) Monarchy discovered, start Currency, Revolution, Monarchy established, T/L/S = 3/0/7. Tech Cost = 102. Madrid horseman stops in Cordoba for happiness control. IPRB Toledo 4sh+10sh, Valencia works 2 coal (5 shields). Toledo settler starts irrigation on wheat.
    1600BC (6) Cordoba builds settler, moves to Buffalo, Cordoba warrior starts back to Cordoba.
    1550BC (7) Salamanca works forest, Cordoba settler starts road on buffalo.
    1500BC (8) Sioux develop Masonry, Valencia builds settler, moves toward 140,86. RB Salamanca 9sh (this was done to finish the settler as the city was about to become size 2).
    1450BC (8) Salamanca buils settler, Seville builds settler, Madrid builds trireme. Trireme has to stay in city for happiness control, start warrior. New settlers move to shielded grasslands. Cordoba settler starts to irrigate buffalo. Wheat irrigation is complete.
    1400BC (9) Trireme moves toward Toledo. Toledo Settler (on wheat) charges. Salamanca and Seville settlers start roads. Valencia works Coal.
    1350BC (10) Madrid build warrior, starts settler. Toledo settler (on wheat) charges. Salamanca works roaded Grassland. Cordoba changes to Trireme (city is size 1 with no surplus food, can't build settler). NON Legion in Cordoba moves toward Madrid.
    1300BC (11) Toledo build settler. Both Toledo settlers board trireme. Trireme moves toward canal site (125,77). Salamanca and Seville settlers move south. Valencia settler builds Barcelona at 140,86.
    1250BC (12) Salamanca settler moves south. Seville settler starts road. Irrigation on buffalo (Cordoba) complete.
    1200BC (13) Salamanca settler moves 2 river squares and then charges. Cordoba settler moves into city and charges. Toledo settlers land on silk. NON Legion arrives in Madrid.
    1150BC (14) Americans start Colossus. Currency is discovered, start on Trade. Tech Cost is 136. IPRB Madrid 4 sh, disband warrior. Seville settler moves on road and charges. Toledo settlers start and finish road on silk. IPRB Toledo 2sh, Seville 2sh.
    1100BC (15) French start Colossus. Cordoba builds trireme. Hut (at 188,96) produces horsemen (NON). Toledo settlers move to canal site (125,77) and forest (124,78).

    Here is the save file.


    View attachment PH_B1100.SAV

    Remember, the Salamanca and Seville settlers both have 1 charge. I was thinking that the Salamanca settler might road one of the wheat squares before building a city at 145,97. Also, 120,82 might be a good square for the 2nd Toledo settler to build a city. Of course, that is up to the next player.

    In hind sight, I am not sure if making an alliance with the Sioux was a good idea. Since we are Supreme, they will not give us gifts. Without the alliance we could be demanding tribute.
     
  20. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    On the other hand, since we are allied, we don't have to worry about them sneak attacking, allowing us to leave cities near them empty.

    For city placement, I would recommend taking the Cordoba settler to a point north of Wounded Knee and build a city there (or on the river system a little west of there). We should get 2 cities in that area to dissuade the Sioux from building northward; the second city can be built using the city built by the Cordoba settler.

    We should also take advantage of the whale near the Sioux horseman, sooner rather than later.

    I would recommend 146, 98 instead. 145, 97 has water in its radius, but would not be able to build a harbour. Also, at this time, we are not having large cities, so having 3 specials in the radius isn't that important, particularly since the 2 wheat are the same, and don't offer the choice of alternating production based on needs. The wheat at 142, 96 could serve another city (possibly built right where the settler is standing now, but that site is a lower priority)

    I think we should change production in Madrid. We'll be getting trade in about 10 turns, and having 5 shield production in that city will be more useful than having an extra city; I'd work the ocean to get 2 extra science, and switch production to a trireme (which I'd probably use for transportation along the east coast)

    Cordoba has difficulty producing food; I wouldn't do any more work with settlers supported there, but either build cities or rehome them as soon as possible.
     

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