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Deity Level Succession Game

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Prof. Garfield, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    1100 BC (turn 0) I switch Madrid production to Trireme. Switch Toledo production to Warrior (I am intent on building a wonder there) Switch Salamanca worker to roaded shielded grass from fish (want more shield production) Decide that the Salamanca settler needs to head back to a city location nearer to our mainland. Enter...


    1050 BC (turn 1) Move the Seville settler near the oil near Toledo: Will road and mine. Switch Toledo production to oil (has just built warrior) Warrior will be done in 2 turns. Decide to move Madrid Trireme towards land mass 9 to the west of our continent (Horsemen will board ship along the way) Decide to build city at (145, 89) with the Salamanca settler because it is too early to build on our south shore atm. Hail Sioux. They want to trade Pottery for Bronze Working (other choice is Monarchy... nty) They also have Masonry! They then want to trade Masonry for Monarchy. I offer Currency instead, they say no. I will not try anything else for this turn. They have 2 clubs. Gift them Currency and Code of Laws (lower research costs) Swap maps. I will not gift them Monarchy because I don’t want them to grow more quickly. They still have only 3 cities and are starting a roadnet. Techrate is 12 turns. Decide to send the NONE horsemen back towards our cities for future boarding across a trireme. Enter...


    1000 BC (turn 2) Sioux attitude drops to Cordial. Build Valladoid at (126, 78) build warrior, work silk (a road already placed on the silk... not a lot of choice) Techrate now 9 turns :) Seville settler moves to oil dump near Toledo. Madrid builds Trireme, start warrior. Enter...


    975 BC (turn 3) IPRB 3 shields in Salamanca. Hanging Gardens started in Toledo (3 warriors built) Switch worker back to roaded shielded grassland: Toledo will grow in 8 turns. Start roading the oil dump. Road built immediately... the settler was precharged.

    Inter-turn: Wounded Knee shrinks from size 4 to size 3. Odd, no unit of mine was right next to ‘’see’’ that although I had a horsemen 2 squares away.

    950 BC (turn 4) Valencia builds settlers. Switch Valencia worker to fish and Barcelona worker to forested river. Madrid trireme ‘’sees’’ landmass 13 but sticks to plan: landmass 9 (and it looks big enough!) Decide to build city at (130, 90) with Valencia settler. Rush 2s in Madrid (I plan to switch production to Caravan when Trade is discovered) switch production to Settler. IPRB 4 shields in Barcelona. Cordoba warrior, heads to Valencia. Build Saragossa at (145, 89) start warrior. Techrate still 8 turns. Enter...


    925 BC (turn 5) Sioux attitude still Cordial. Decide to build city at (121, 89) IPRB 6 shields in Barcelona. Enter...


    900 BC (turn 6) Seville builds Settlers, start warrior. Rush 2s in Madrid. Rush 4s in Salamanca and switch worker from Fish to Forest (city is growing too quickly) Valladoid builds warriors, start settler. Madrid horsemen lands on landmass 9! Start exploring. Trireme will pick up the 2 other horses. Rehome Cordoba warrior to Valencia, change production from Warrior to Settler. Enter...


    875 BC (turn 7) Population exceeds 200,000 citizens. Switch Valencia worker to coal for more production (was working unshielded grassland... we should maybe mine one of those coal squares) Rush 3s in Cordoba. Settler lands on landmass 13: whale nearby. Tempting... but no. Decide to try and build a city at (113, 105) to stop possible Sioux expansion west. Madrid horsemen pops a hut: barbarian. CRAP! (at least only one horsemen appeared... a long shot but still possible because the hut was on a hill) The soon-to-be city at (121, 89) will need to build a Horsemen after going Phalanx if our Horsemen loses.

    Interturn: Nothing happens? Will take that!

    850 BC (turn 8) Discover Trade. Choose Myscitism for next path because it is on-path for Phil and Mono (writing was not offered) Operation ‘’Caja En’’ (btw, that means ‘’box them in’’ in Spanish, according to Google translation) is started as Cadix is built at (121, 89) start Phalanx. Tech rate is 9 turns. Switch Madrid, Cordoba, Valencia, Valladoid production to Caravans. Rush shields at Valencia and Valladoid, switch worker from fish to coal in Valladoid to get a caravan in 8 turns. The mining of the oil near Toledo is complete. Trireme unveils fish special for Saragossa. Settler unveils a hut on Continent 13. Switch production in Toledo from HG to Marco’s. Madrid horsemen unveils a hut on Continent 9. Enter...


    825 BC (turn 9) Put Elvis in Salamaca because it will soon riot. Will rushbuy settler next turn. Switch worker to Forest. Switch Toledo production from shielded grassland to mined oil (and here we go!) Marco’s done in 27 turns (methinksnot) Rush 8s in Madrid, 4s in Cordoba, 5s in Valencia. Pop hut on Continent 9: NONE Legion (again? There is a civ on Landmass 9!) Pop hut on Continent 13: 50 gold. Rush 8s in Cadix, 7s in Valladoid. Trireme reveals shoreline of Continent 13: apart from (116, 62) it looks dismal. I think I should wait a bit. Second team of Horsemen embarks on a Madrid Trireme, heading for Landmass 9. Saragossa builds warriors, starts settler. Sioux attitude is down to Receptive. Enter...

    Inter-turn: Happiest civs of the world: 1-Spanish 6-Sioux

    800 BC (turn 10) Barcelona builds settlers. Rush 9s in Salamanca. Rush 8s in Cadix. Another hut on continent 9. Enter...


    775 BC (turn 11) Salamanca builds Settlers, starts Warrior. Continent 13 is way bigger than I expected! Masonry from hut. Trireme ''sees'' units of an opposite civ, a horsemen disembarks and meets Icy Carthaginians. They want Map Making (given... I could have wreaked havoc on their stacked horses, but decided to pass) Peace. Give Ceremonial Burial, attitude cordial. Give Pottery, attitude Enthusiastic. Gift them Masonry, attitude Worshipful. Swap maps. They have 3 clubs. Offer alliance (want free ZOC) they say no. They have 4 cities. (11 citizens, we have 16)

    They are on a peninsula! However, boxing them in is practically un-doable unless we take Caralis (at 98, 88) whose top defending unit is a warrior (I think... it showed that when I right-clicked on the city to determine the coordinates) There is a Legion and 2 horses near, ready to be used (but will likely leave that to the next player) Legion won’t get there in time for turn 15) If we succeed, we can build Phalanxes, city walls and watch them suicide on our walls... but not sure if the risk is worth the reward (they have good land however, so if we are the ones expanding there and not them... it will be great!) Malaca is at (110, 92) Carthage is at (106, 96) Utica is at (103, 91) Switch Madrid production to Ocean (caravan built next turn anyway) Bilbao founded at (130, 90) start warrior. Sioux attitude down to Neutral.


    750 BC (turn 12) Switch Toledo citizen from grassland to forest (Marco’s done in 19 turns) Madrid builds Caravan, switch production back to Forest. I will stop rushing in case we need to rush walls (or something like that) at a conquered Caralis (still defended by warrior) THAT CAN’T FAIL IF WE TRY THAT, OTHERWISE WE COULD BE IN DEEP TROUBLE. REMEMBER, THE CARTHS ARE MILITARISTIC AND THEY HAVE MAP MAKING :mischief: Build Grenada at (136, 90) First citizen unhappy! Switch worker to Coal (will take unrest every 2 turns to speed up the building of a warrior) Switch production from Settler to Warrior in Barcelona because of the riot factor. Bilbao is unhappy too! Work buffalo. Enter...


    725 BC (turn 13) Disorder in Bilbao and Grenada. Switch worker from Fish to Forest in Saragossa (will be growing too fast) Start moving units near Caralis (I decided to bite the bullet, even if they are technically not invented yet, and to attack them) Rush 4s in Seville. Enter...


    700 BC (turn 14) First food caravan from Madrid arrives in Toledo: Marco’s done in 11 turns. Barcelona builds warriors, starts settler. Rush 2s in Madrid. Caralis still defended by warriors. We have attack power of 10 on continent 9, have no idea what it’s going to give... Enter...


    675 BC (turn 15) Civil disorder in Grenada, Bilbao builds warrior. Valencia starts caravan. Caralis still defended by warriors. Hail Carth’s: They demand Monarchy, refused, they give threats. I ask for tribute, they ‘’ignore my weak threats’’ The plan is to move the Legion in, and when the Legion can attack, go bang on Caralis with legion and 2 horsemen. I suspect they will rush a phalanx (or something like that) so we will have to act fast (legion attack first IMO) If they give us a choice between withdraw and war, I’d choose war at the cost of a rep drop, I don’t think it will matter much when we get Marco’s. (we are not trying to get alliances with overseas nations, are we?) Move NONE legion in Caralis radius. Rush 2s in Cadix. Put an elvis in Grenada.





    I left the next player some cash and some big foreign decisions (the Carth attack can still be called off... luckily it won’t result in that much lost exploration due to the geography of Landmass 9) The closest city to that front is Cadix.


    I ended up NOT founding a city on landmass 13 (which is bigger than I thought btw) but it can be founded next turn. But with the riot factor kicking in, we might have to switch to HG if we want to keep up the expansion. A 200-shield wonder should be built in about 4-5 turns (our first wonder) because a Caravan is 4 turns from Toledo (I think) More caravans are being built right now (Cordoba 12 shields away) so the 2nd wonder should be built quickly enough.


    I left a lot of cash in the treasury in case we need to rush walls/units, if we capture Caralis. I’m pretty sure they have some techs we do not (note a fortified legion in Malaca... they also not had many techs I had when I first met them, which probably means that they researched something else... remember we are first in tech) I suspect, knowing the Carths are militaristic, that they have techs such as Polytheism and Mathematics. To complete the blockade, we might have to post a unit at (101, 85) afterwards so the Carths are completely boxed in (I doubt they will send settlers via trireme because of their militaristic behaviour) I would not build a city because of too much overlap. One square farther would break the ZOC blockade, so we can’t do that. We maybe will need to build a fortress there later.


    Caralis is size 2 (last checked) has no walls and a defender. If Caralis is not size 3 by the time our Legion is ready to attack (or if the defender dies attacking our legion, which I suspect will happen due to the odds of victory (if the Warrior attacks, it will be 1:2 for the warrior versus 3:8 for the warrior if the Legion attacks first... that assuming the Warrior is not a veteran, but it should not make a difference for the Legion) being better for the Carthaginians) the city will only be razed instead of captured, which will gravely affect our quarantine operations.
    If that happens, it may be necessary to bring a settler from Cadix (city will grow next turn and a Trireme is ready to ferry a Settler across) build a new city and then shove in units/walls. Peace will likely be needed for that, so if they demand tech, give it to them IMO (When we are ready, goad them in war again. It's not like they will go around giving our techs to everybody...) While I know the Carths may not pose an immediate threat, they still need to be contained later because I do not think they should be first on our hit list (they should be second, after the Sioux (using the leftover of the Sioux conquering force) IMO... and can we please delay that to 1510 AD?)


    The trireme at (137, 113) is heading to drop on-board settler to (113, 105) to complete Phase 2 of Operation Caja En. It can afterwards pick up the horsemen at (102, 110) and explore some more.

    Grenada has few specials and is not very viable (also has overlap) I only founded this city because I would rather found them forming a continuous front so we are not disorganized and end up wasting several squares of /average/ land.


    11g, 21bpt. Techrate 9 turns. Will discover Myscitism in a few turns, I recommend we research Writing after that.


    We have 12 cities (objective achieved) Marco's/HG can be completed in 4 turns when we add a caravan (last turn, switch worker from Wheat to Forest to get the extra shield we need to get to 200... objective probably achieved) and the Sioux are partly boxed in (objective will be achieved by the next player) Our pop is 290k people (1st) GNP is 15mil (2nd) Mftg goods is 45 mtons (1st) We are Supreme and our Rep is spotless (for now, that is) We have 93 gold.

    Good luck to the next player!
     

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  2. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Personally, I don't think attacking Caralis is a good idea. Chances are we'd raze the city, and if we capture it, it is not very defensible. The trouble is the hills, which impart a defensive bonus to any unit stopping beside our city (thus making it difficult on the attack unit in the city), at least until we can build a fortress.

    If we build a couple cities just to the north of the Carthaginians, we still limit their growth, but we'll probably be able to get along with them for a short time first (saving the expense of rushing city walls). Once the war comes, those cities will still present the overriding target to the Carthaginians, but we'll have placed them with a higher emphasis on the "growing asset" side of things instead of the "military expense" side. Send a settler from Cadix

    At the moment, the Carthaginians represent a nearby trading partner (and fighting might complicate that a little bit). Carthage and Utica both demand hides, which a few of our cities, including Madrid, supply. I'm interested to know what kind of bonus a Madrid-Utica hides delivery would produce (remember to maximize trade in Madrid just before the delivery). We might want to look into rehoming one of Madrid's units, to give the city 5 production.

    On the Wonders Side, I'd probably build Hanging Gardens first. We're starting to have happiness troubles, and HG will alleviate those somewhat. I'd set taxes to maximum, and start partial rushing the caravans needed to build Marco's. We can probably trade for Mysticism, and then put that accumulated research to something else.

    In Toledo, once the wonder is built, I'd start making caravans. Each turn produce 9 shields, rush 1 (except where you can't because we are lacking the 30s unit), until you get up to 40s. Then set production to 10s (run a food deficit for a turn) and put out the caravan.

    Of course, it is always up to the player in the end.
     
  3. mackerel

    mackerel Warlord

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    I was leaning against attacking Caralis already, as we don't have the overwhelming force to subdue Carthage at this time. In addition, as we have 12 cities, the next city we capture or create pushes us over the double unhappiness boundary. If I switch to Hanging Gardens we can handle owning a massive number of size 1 cities?

    Speaking of new cities, I have my eye on the four-whale spot north of Valladolid for a science city.

    I'm fairly new to the trading game, always ignored that part before (but I recognize my mistake after reading everything here), so my calculations may not be quite perfect. I ran the numbers last night on a hides caravan from Valladolid to Utica (which also demands hides and, due to the fish, should have one more base trade than Carthage) and came up with a final anticipated payout of 130, taking 9 turns to deliver by trireme, and creating a 2 arrow per turn recurring route. That's about half a scientific discovery. By the time that trireme returns, we could have two hides caravans waiting to board, and while 130g is not terribly impressive, 130b x2 = 1 science per turn in the early game, and that's tempting.

    I think the Sioux can wait a while to be crushed. For the present, a city on the lone hill NW of Wounded Knee with a phalanx or two (built on a mine, if that brand of cheese is allowed) will block them off in our direction, we'll retain the option of rushing walls when they get testy, and we'll outgrow and out-tech them quickly. If they become rational when they get Republic, they'll be the best late game trading partner. If not, we can crush them when crushing becomes trivial. At the present they can do no harm and spending our resources on petty war instead of growth is not optimal.

    I will spend my 15 turns in peace, for the benefit of future generations. My priorities will be Hanging Gardens then Marco Polo, settling at choke points around Sioux and Carthaginians, and establishing the foundations of a ship chain to Utica/Carthage.
     
  4. mackerel

    mackerel Warlord

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    Minor adjustments, since I've got the game actually loaded and am not looking at an old screenshot. Cadix is one space north of the hill I mentioned putting a stopper city on, so I'll put thought into either building on the hills right outside Wounded Knee or letting Cadix-on-grass stay as the first line of defense. In a similar situation, (113, 105) would be a city on grass built to be attacked. Moving that potential city north one space into the forest gives a defensive bonus and access to silk instead of fur. Moving it to (118,100) would give silk and wine, but not completely block off the area. If the goal of the city is to cage the hostile Sioux, I think we'll be better off with the slightly inferior but better defensible city on forest.

    (101,77) looks like a good choke point to hold back Carthage from that leg of their continent, though it will have 3 ocean squares and not be able to build a harbor. From there we can launch a colonization effort to block them off further.
     
  5. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    When Mackerel's finished, I'll have to pass on my turns.
     
  6. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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    I'm a little lost at this point, I don't know who's going to be playing next and who can't play due to the demands of real life. Could someone post some sort of order at this point to clear things up a little bit?
     
  7. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    The First round of turns were played in the following order:

    Prof. Garfield
    Magic gorter
    Blasph23
    haleewud
    Jokemaster
    mackerel

    I can't play next, so Magic gorter is up once mackerel is finished. He won't be able to play between the 15th and the 27th, but I doubt his turn would come up again anyway during that time (I think it will start to take a little longer for turns to be played.

    After that, Blasph23 is up. When he finishes (assuming he can play), I'll probably jump in for my turns, but we'll discuss that when the time gets a little closer.
     
  8. mackerel

    mackerel Warlord

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    675BC (turn 0) Toledo production changed to Hanging Gardens. Valencia changed to settler, it will recover quickly from the population loss. Saragossa spent 8g to knock a turn off settler production. Barcelona will change between fish and forest to produce a settler at the right food surplus level, but no change yet. Bilbao will produce a settler before achieving size 2 at the current rate, it will require attention also.

    650BC (turn 1) Civil disorder in Grenada, Elvis sent to relieve the workforce. Population exceeds 300,000. Salamanca builds warrior, changed to settler. Seville IPRB 8g toward caravan. Barcelona IPRB 8g toward settler. Valencia IPRB 11g toward settler. Continent 13 settler and trireme begin moving toward the proposed blockade north of Carthage. Legion and two horsemen spread to form a temporary blockade. They will be joined by the Cadix settler later. Trapped Sioux horseman parks beside Valladolid.

    625BC (turn 2) Order restored in Grenada, Elvis tour extended one turn (next turn work resumes, warrior will be built, labor strike ends). Mysticism -> Writing. Carthaginian settler and warrior appear. Trapped Sioux is not trapped, and moves toward Madrid. Barcelona IPRB 8g toward settler, changed from fish to forest at the cost of 1 science. Cordoba changed from forest to ocean to avoid wasted shields, gains 2 science. Cadix IPRB 6g, still in danger of growing before the settler finishes.

    600BC (turn 3) Food caravan arrives in Toledo, 10 shields required. Production adjusted accordingly. Cadix changed from grassland to forest - settler will delay the trade ship to Utica by 1 turn but speed up the colony blockade. Grenada's lunch break ends, workers will produce a warrior next turn. Cordoba will overproduce its caravan next turn, no way around it.

    575BC (turn 4) Valladolid hide caravan toward Utica. Cordoba food caravan produced. Toledo builds Hanging Gardens (WLTKD). Toledo changed to caravan and wheat+grass work, 8 shields/turn + buy 2 after one turn = 6 turn caravan. Food surplus during this will allow the next caravan to be built in 5 turns, or hanging gardens may allow Toledo to grow to size 6. Grenada warrior -> caravan. Cordoba begins Marco Polo's Embassy at 5 shields per turn. Cordoba food caravan arrives in Cordoba, 150 shields to go. Carthage settler revisits the portable blockade. Sioux are Uncooperative but not pushing the issue. Discoveries 10 turns, 23b/t, 13g/t.

    550BC (turn 5) Saragossa settlers. Salamanca rushes 8g toward settlers. Toledo rushes 4g toward caravan.

    525BC (turn 6) Americans have nearly completed Colossus. Carthage blockade continues to hold, cordial. Sioux Uncooperative. Hides caravan boards trireme for Utica. Hut at (86,42) -> Polytheism. Discoveries went from 10-11 turns. Production changed in newer cities to promote growth, now that happiness permits.

    500BC (turn 7) Washington builds Colossus. French changed to lolOracle. Our troops have violated the territory of Panormus -- Carthage built a city next to the blockade, which will attempt to pull back just enough to keep the peace. They're going to slip through, but I'll try to hold the settler in. French Oracle changed to MPE. Barcelona settlers -> Caravan, Valencia settlers -> Caravan. Both of those are primed to regain population next turn. Southern settler lands on wheat at (114,104) in the nick of time, Sioux settler 2 spaces away. Find City indicates Americans are far to the north, and we have a horseman exploring near that area already.

    475BC (turn 8) French have nearly completed MPE. We have 130g, costs 520. I don't see any way to complete it before next turn, so I'm sorry. We'll continue producing wonder shields in Cordoba and hope Philosphy -> Monotheism are available after Writing so we can have instant Mike's. Cadix builds settlers, they will board the trade trireme next turn. Uncovered an interesting site north of Carthage, 3 whales and 1 oil, or 2 wheat 1 whale 1 oil. That's a decision for a later time. Valladolid grew into unhappiness but not unrest, changed production to Warrior at a loss of 2 shields plus this turn's production. Grenada rushes 2g toward caravan. Seville rushes 13g toward caravan.

    450BC (turn 9) Paris completes MPE. Madrid caravan (hides). Malaga founded (113,103), begins constructing city walls, horseman will arrive to garrison in 2 turns. Pamplona founded (145,97) -> warrior. Valladolid warrior -> caravan. Toledo caravan (silver, Paris demands, Find City indicates French are nearby north of Seville) -> settler. Population exceeds 400,000.

    425BC (turn 10) Horseman meets Uncooperative Americans, we welcome peace. Gave Trade and Pottery to reach Worshipful. They would not accept Masonry for Writing, so I traded Monarchy. No other tech available at this time. Cadix and Madrid unhappiness. Cadix switches both workers to forest and will complete warrior next turn. Madrid buys warrior @13g and will pay 2 shields per turn upkeep until we can rehome a trireme and warrior, rather than face civil unrest or starvation. Valencia rushes 6g toward caravan, produces 5 shields per turn.

    400 BC (turn 11) Researching Literacy, discoveries every 10 turns and we're 85% done already. Toledo 4g toward caravan. Literacy will be tech #15, will Philosophy->Monotheism be available next? Mines started on 2 coals near Valencia.

    375 BC (turn 12) Barbarians near Pamplona, 2 chariots and a leader. Salamanca settlers->caravan. Seville food caravan will go to Cordoba->warrior. Carthage dropped to neutral and demanded Polytheism, denied because I don't think we want elephants coming at us just yet, Mysticism made them receptive. Hides caravan reaches Utica but would massively overflow the science requirement, so it parks outside. Madrid horseman rehomes to Malaga, half the shield support problem is solved. Saragossa 25g->Diplomat to deal with the barbarians. Bilbao unhappy but producing a settler next turn.

    350BC (turn 13) Barbarians sack Pamplona. Bilbao settlers->caravan, I wasn't careful enough about food surplus so it'll be back to size 1 for a while. Saragossa diplomat->caravan. Literacy->Republic (Philosophy not available). Discoveries every 14 turns. Valladolid adjusted to 7 trade > hides delivered to Utica for 88, 1 recurring. Not quite what I had hoped for. Vigo founded (101,77) blocking Carthage off -> walls. Cordoba horseman rehomed to Vigo. Valladolid rushes 25+25g toward caravan. Madrid 6g toward caravan. Valladolid and Madrid caravans will be ready to board a ship for the Americas, Washington should provide a much better payout with the distance and colossus. Trireme #2 can be in Madrid in 9 turns, it will take upwards of 12 turns to reach America from there. If 2 hide caravans give us a tech advance though, it'll be worth the effort. Madrid's next caravan is ready in 10 turns so we'll have to shave one off. Washington demands hides, dye, gems. Looking for how to produce a second caravan for that shipload, Barcelona makes hides and Cadix makes gems. Both are making caravans but both will have to be heavily rushed to meet the shipping deadline. I'm choosing Cadix gems and planning to meet the trireme at the grassland north of Valladolid. Cadix 100g->caravan.

    325BC (turn 14) Cadix caravan (gems). Diplomat liberates Pamplona for 26g, 2 chariots were thrown in to sweeten the deal. Grenada has a happiness issue, Elvis sent in to temporarily fix that while a Pamplona chariot is en route. Saragossa 13g toward caravan. Third trireme is nearly back along the east coast, will be in position to pick up Barcelona hides caravan in 6 turns, Barcelona 11g toward caravan, will be ready in 4 turns +2 turns travel. 20 gold in the treasury. 100 shields invested in MPE/Mike's.

    300BC (turn 15) Valladolid caravan (hides). Barcelona 11g toward caravan. Forgot to fix Cadix's production after buying the caravan, so it's only got 1 shield progress instead of 5 on the next.

    Final notes:
    We're in a good position now to set up lucrative trade partnerships. Once the first few good payouts come in we'll jump ahead in science and be able to afford more caravans and triremes to abuse ship chaining as long as Washington keeps demanding hides. I've left it up to the next player (mostly because I'm out of turns and money) to decide if it's worth parking 10+ triremes on that route. We have 15 cities now, 11 turn discoveries, 14 gold and 30 beakers per turn. Sioux are blockaded by Cadix and Malaga, Carthage by Vigo and a second settler is moving to block them in the northwest - but an enemy settler is trying to claim the same ground.

    HG has been very nice for happiness issues. I don't fully understand how it's working with martial law and populations over 1 and having over 12 cities in Monarchy. In part because of this uncertainty, I'm producing a lot more caravans than settlers. I promise I won't be offended if the next player changes that. I chose republic for the next advance but I don't think we're ready to adopt it, I really like to have Mike's first to counter the loss of martial law. If the next player can make an instant transition work, I'll be amazed and hopefully improved by the writeup.

    Two things that would have helped me if I could remember where to find them: the formula for which techs will be hidden at the next selection, and the amount of food required to grow a city.

    View attachment PH_B300.SAV
     
  9. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    It's rather surprising that the French built Marco's. I certainly wasn't expecting someone else to have trade yet. It's not a huge loss, but we should send some diplomats out soon to establish embassies and find the other civs. The biggest difficulty will probably find the replacement purple civ once we get rid of the Sioux.

    Speaking of the Sioux, we should probably let them cancel the alliance at this point. We have cities positioned now that will prevent relocation difficulties, and the ZOC will help us contain them (speaking of which, move the Malaga Horse out of the city to prevent settler movement; allies can't capture each others cities, so being undefended doesn't matter).

    Open the Science Advisor and use the "goal" command. If you select the tech you want to research next, it will either tell you to research that tech (if it will be available), or it will say that no advances leading to it can be researched.

    The amount of food required to grow a city is (size+1)x10.

    I don't think we have the resources to spare at the moment for a shipchain, but we really should start sending caravans to the Americans. Washington has colossus, so that should (along with the distance) give large payouts. The real question is how long will Washington demand hides? I think it is worth the risk to send a relatively large number of hides caravans to Washington (particularly since dumping them should give an O.K. return, and a few trade arrows in the cities anyway), but we should probably send at least a couple other commodities.

    I'd maximize taxes for a while in order to rush a few more triremes and caravans (not to mention a few diplomats). We don't have any immediate goals, so it seems like a good idea to spend money trying to get the trade up and running, which will improve our science in the medium term.
     
  10. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I don't know if the formula is in one of the previous succesion games. I know we discussed techs and the groupnumber they belong to. You could try reading one of them to find out.

    The food bar is full at: (size city + 1) * 10.......

    I try to play tomorrow and try to finish my turns...
     
  11. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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    I was wondering if it's not a better idea to reduce Sioux to 1 city pet civ, grant them the techs and cut them off of any other civ's influence so they can't share. Wouldn't finding a new key civ be more expensive than controlling Sioux in the manner described? Plus Sioux are fairly peaceful from what I remember from all of my games, while if we destroy them, the new key civ might be too powerful or aggressive to treat in this way. Correct me if I'm wrong; perhaps the benefits of controling the entirety of the continent are higher than having a pet key civ around.
    BTW. I'm gonna play my turns normally, I'm 100% sure, life's been a bit more understanding these days and I have some spare time.
     
  12. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    I would recommend this. We lost on Marco (we got unlucky) so that means keeping the Sioux around is now the better option. At somepoint we might want to consider conquering MPE, as the French, who have it, are near enough (swap maps as needed...) could be hard to engage in Republic however. Or should we wait for Communism and the UN?

    Since the Americans have Colossus, sending caravans there by the ton should be the way to go. (but I think we should not deliver that much, concentrate on setting up a chain to the Americans) until Mikes\Repu if we do not want to use entertainers (not enough cities to trigger the BH factor anyway I think) or jacking up the LUX bar a bit. Delivering in Monarchy will result in poor trade bonuses and we will NEED them to develop our lands. HG will make our life easier on that front.

    Because of our poor starting terrain, we might want to consider getting Seafaring soon for Harbors so no city of ours stagnates at size 3 once we get celebrations going.

    I have not seen the game however, and will not be able to play for a while (probably not until Christmas) because of family issues and studying for exams before the Christmas break.

    I think getting Phil\Mono should be number 2 on our list of priorities (number 1 obviously being blockades on Sioux\Carths) but I would not bring down the science rate until we have MT (or are close enough to it so that we can get it without delaying Mikes) I would switch to Repu after Mikes, but delay WLTCD until Harbours are built in port cities with weak food production (Madrid and Cordoba are examples, build with caravan money) When we will have size 8 cities up and running, we should think about keeping up trade\expansion and starting improvement work (but wait until Explosives until the bulk of the work is done) This one may need a period of Modernisation if we want to get a Power Democracy up and running.
     
  13. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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    We might also consider building Leo's; as much as it's not a vital wonder in our game, it certainly might prove very useful with all the settlers getting upgraded to engineers, triremes all the way to transports and all the horsemen and legions might eventually give us an upper hand in the unavoidable wars that will take place in the future. Also we don't necessarily have to develop invention/engineering ourselves, the comp player is fairly good at this and gunpowder too. Just go along with the less AI-desired tech path for tech swap. Also, having some of the more build-type civs rather than all military-oriented, might prove to be an obstacle in building the desirable wonders.
     
  14. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Short log due of lack of time:

    turn 0: 300bc talked to Sioux->want tech->refuse->alliance cancelled / changed production of some cities. Building some elephants (sioux mission) and triremes. Stopped building walls. Don't think the are usefull. The change is not to big that we're attacked.
    turn 1: 275bc taxes 70%...partly RB some triremes
    turn 2: 250bc horsemen was sent back by Americans
    turn 3: 225bc
    turn 4: 200bc
    turn 5: 175bc
    turn 6: 150bc
    turn 7: 125bc science back to 70% (want next tech before first delivery)
    turn 8: 100bc Sioux ask to leave Wounded Knee->no->war / captured Wounded Knee (45g+Seafaring) / popped hut->advanced tribe->Avila / to be sure Sioux won't attack I accept peace with them.
    turn 9: 75bc Leon
    turn 10: 50bc some units still can move (attack of one Slim Butes is possible)

    Republic almost discovered.
     

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  15. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    In my opinion, the course of action should be the following:

    Get republic, and give it to the Americans (in the hope that they switch before we arrive with our deliveries). Try to get their map while you are at it.

    Start Philosophy and use caravans to get at least a good part of the research done. (Select Monotheism as the free tech.) At the same time, amass enough caravans at Cordoba to get Mike's ASAP, and then switch to republic (or, switch a little before Mike's, and run high luxuries until we finish it -- in fact, next turn is an OEDO year, I believe, if you want to avoid anarchy almost completely)

    Check happiness in our cities. A few, like Barcelona, are paying support for units, but will stay out of disorder with one less unit for martial law. With republic and Mike's coming, most of those units will be disbanded anyway, so disband them now, or move them to where they are needed. On a similar note, we may want to cut food production for a short while, to prevent cities from growing and going into disorder.

    I wouldn't sneak attack the Sioux (or violate another treaty; we could probably use a decent reputation for a little while longer), but demanding tribute (and otherwise goading them) is probably a good move. Either we get money, or we get war and the chance to take another city.

    Once we've subdued or eliminated the Sioux, what should we do with our Elephants? We could stomp Carthage, but we'd probably raze most cities; not exactly a profitable use of resources.

    After Mike's, we should build at least a few more cities. There are a lot of whales out there that should be harvested.
     
  16. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Next to Cordoba is a caravan waiting (asleep). This van can help to complete the next wonder (but only after we can chose the next).

    Some cities might still produce elephants. They could be changed to something else (diplomat, van, etc.).

    The shipchain is not ready yet. We might need some extra cities in the northern part of our main island to shorten the shipchain. Because I still was building ships I haven't counted how much more is needed to complete the shipchain.

    I agree with Pr. Garfield with the path to follow. But I think we should not eliminate the Sioux completly. Let's pet them (1 city).

    Good luck for the next player.
     
  17. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

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    Aren't you the next player Magic? Unless you can't play this time then I can play my turns since I'm next on the list.
     
  18. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Magic just played. Go up a couple posts.
     
  19. mackerel

    mackerel Warlord

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    Since we've begun the conquest of the Sioux, I agree that continuing aggression is a good idea. Now's the time to pick which city to leave them with (Wounded Knee looks like the weakest position for future growth) and get the action over with, so our resources can go back to being used for growth.

    As soon as the first caravans reach Washington, I think we're going to wish we had a steady stream of 2 per turn rolling in. If the payouts are anything like I suspect, we'll get at least 200 per demanded hides van and have a tech in one turn.

    For cities like Barcelona that are paying support and have more troops than they need for martial law, would it be better to give them a little extra food and let them grow to size 3 now?

    I know we didn't have the greatest starting position ever, but somebody launched a spaceship in 1AD, 2 turns from where we now stand?
     
  20. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Let's simply say they had a slightly superior starting location.

    GJ on the Sioux and Seafaring!

    I managed to get to see the game. I ran a test and found out that the Americans DO NOT HAVE MAP MAKING. If we want to give it to them, we will have to get to that point first when we actually get that option. When I ran a test, I have to gift FOUR techs to the Americans before having the option to gift Map Making (these techs were Literacy, Masonry, Seafaring and Currency IIRC) We might want to consider waiting for Republic before doing that so we get 2 priorities done in 1 round of gifting.

    The distance is great between Spain and America, so we might want to consider getting to Navigation and Invention and build Mag and Leo (but watch out for the payout drop!) for faster ships.

    The city I'd leave to the Sioux would be Little Bighorn because they would have a great deal of trouble expanding trapped on a peninsula.

    Now that the Sioux are soon going to be near-dead, I don't see the point of leaving Malaga built on forest any longer. I would irrigate for more food and trade ASAP.

    Valencia is working forest while it could work mined coal, giving 3 shields more per turn (10 total) Would give us a caravan every 5 turns. However that city is not a hides producer. We have 5 cities with hides, but one of them is not on our mainland (Avila... much closer to the Americans BTW)

    I would also get the science rate down to 30% once again when we get Republic. I'm pretty sure that the 2 hides caravans are going to give our next advance singlehandedly (or at least a good chunk of it) Our vans will get to Washington in approximately 5 turns.
     

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