Deity of Random - Try 1

[CellKu]

Snaaty, your ideas sound good. We should definitely switch civics and turn EP's towards Pericles.
One question about the aims of your turnset: Do you also intend to start the war against Zara? (Your post sounded like that.)

With regard to the war against SB: I remember that during my turnset SB had quite a number of frigates sailing around, so keep an eye open in that respect and escort our Galleons.

 

[Flo7]

Btw - in Flo7's screenshots there's additional info - is that a mod or something else?

It is the BUG Mod, using it saves time imo

 

[Flo7]

War against SB now or latter does not really matter, as long as it does not hinder preparations for the final war. Maybe we can generate another GG...

Before we go into a 2 or 3 turn anarchy we can consider generating a GP and trigger a GA with him. Should be done within 10 turns in Kyoto, with Sushi

Another point for discussion is IW, WP and an idle GG in Chartage. I think we should finish these National wonders until we get industrialisation. That way we can crank out loads of highly promoted battleships and tanks.

Concerning WP three cities come to mind (without looking at the save). Chartage (good hammers), Tokyo (good whipping) and Aachen (instructor and mil. academy).
If we decide not to build WP in Chartage I would build IW there.

What are your opinions...

 

[Rusten]

You are playing at crazy times

It's summer holiday so I have no university studies--just skateboarding, beer and civ 4. I'm very flexible in terms of when to play.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Team:

My plan is to only prepare the next big war and to take some islands from Bull... ...I guess that this alone will take long enough with all the logistics to do

But I only can play this weekend, so you have to wait a little more for my turn... ...sorry

 

[Flo7]

Concerning Civic change
We could generate a GP in Chartage within 7 rounds and it will probably be no GS. Waiting these turns and then using him and the GS in Kyoto for a GA sounds better than revolting now and have 3 turns of anarchy...

Any opinions on the National wonders? Imo we should use the time to build those before the war...

 

[Snaaty]

@ Flo:

Good point, so I will wait with revolting another 7 turns.

National Wonders:

I think you posted already some good points about them, if nobody objects, I would stick to them, building the WP or the IW in Carthage, stuffing the other one in the next productive city. The GG I would use for a healer (if we have none), else I would settle him in one of our mil. production cities or the drafting central, depending on overall situation of settled GPs...

 

[CellKu]

Snaaty, unless the SuperMedic I created during my turns in preparation of the war against Ramses has not been killed, we already have a healer. But a second one wouldn't hurt...

 

[Snaaty]

R0:
Check all cities, turn on governour in all cities
Whip tao + hind missionaries
All cities that can build sushi execs
Set markers in-game for logistics system, we will need 15 gallons alone for that to keep it up
Cant draft more then 2 infs due to tiny cities…

R1:
Move stuff around
Start to build more transports
Prepare war on bull
More sushi execs and missionaries
No drafting because no big cities

R2:
Move stuff around
More sushi execs
We are running broke again, suhi gets expensive, research down to 20% and in free falling mode. We really need to get wall street up and more missionaries out ASAP…
All our cities are tiny… …once sushi is up and running, we need to regrow our cities immediately, but now getting sushi all over is more important
Can draft 1 inf more (wow&#8230
Upgrade GG-rifles to infs
Last preps to declare on Bull
Break… …1.5 hours played already… …more tomorrow… …goal is still to spread sushi all over, spread religions, take islands from bull, set up a logistics system…

R3:
Decide to turn off research completely, because we need the money to spread sushi. Instead hire 2 scientists in each sushi city to make up for it, running a full SE now, so far we have about 10 cities with 2 scientists, research at 250 beakers (rest from Carthage, trying to generate a GP)…
First wave of new gallons are ready
Continue moving gallons around to bring our logistics-network up, first progress can be seen.
Start shipping sushi-guys to the far away islands, because now we have some spare gallons, the sushi countdown: Egypt 1 should become first suhi in 2 turns, Egypt 2 in 4 turns, Bull 1 in 6 turns
In parallel sushiing all over the region of our starting islands, including the surrounding islands
Declare on Bull, land on all fronts in parallel (6 islands), don’t plan to move ships near main Bullland until war is won due to high risk of getting attacked by his numerous frigates…

R4:
No real counterattacks from Bull, take first city.
Research growing to 270 beakers, only recovering slowly, because I had to whip some more gallons missionaries and sushis…
Need another break, each turns feel like playing a whole game…

R5:
Bull tries to take back the city he has lost but fails.
We take another city from him
More units moving around, logistics system about half set…
Sushies, missionaries… …you know the drill
In parallel, mining over all windmill, we don’t need food or commerce, we need the production.
Building a railroad network and some more forts to create channels
Take another city from Bull

R6:
Bull does nothing except a little bombarding…
We take another city
Have to emergency-upgrade some units and do some drafting, because suddenly Bull shows up with an a fleet and probably with an army (5 gallons and some frigates)
Only one city left to go, then we have all we want from him… …but as it looks now, Bull still refuses to talk
Next GP in 1 turn… …then we can switch civics…
Wallstreet in 8 turns… …will be hurried by golden age and whipping to 5 turns and will bring about 160 additional gold
Research 300 beakers and rising
Slider at 0 and loosing 6 gold
700 gold in store

R7:
Bull indeed launches a major counterstrike and attacks directly form his gallons with 5 rifles, 2 grens and 1 cannons… …our quickly upgraded inf kills them all, but then dies. Bull takes a former Egyptian city but only can occupy it with a cannon and one rifle. We will take it back this turn, but I need another break now…
Sushi is up in 20 cities now, 24 still to go and research at 360 and rising.

...

More when I get back to playing... ...maybe... ...somewhen... ...I really hate that map... ...moving (or better, shipping) tons of units, missionaries and shushies around feels like pulling teeth... ...argh

 

[Snaaty]

and here comes the bad news (the REAL bad news)... ...simply take the save, start the GA and revolt to Merk... ...and find out yourself

...

What´s the plan now? Staying in FM and doing a 1 turn replay (I started the next turn by launching the GA and switching civics so it wouldnt even be a full 1 turn replay) or does anybody have any ideas of how to survive 5 turns in Merk???

 

[Rusten]

Ouchie! It seems we overdid the sushi spread "a little"!
It's extra costly with this many resources--that's why I tried spreading it to major cities only early on. If we're going to survive mercantilism later on then there's no other option than to adopt caste system and run merchants everywhere (but then our production blows so it's not a very good move). Don't know what to do the coming 5 turns--I guess changing all tiles to coast and hiring merchants is possible, but we'll lose 5 turns for nothing and it could cost us the game.

I don't like the idea of replaying anything--but it's quite silly to lose the game to a civic swap (especially in a GA)

Edit: In hindsight we should've just cancelled our open borders with Pericles instead (if we wanted to slow him down).

 

[CellKu]

Uff! How painful! (actually, an interesting lesson of the value of FM in certain situations! )

I don't like the idea of replaying anything--but it's quite silly to lose the game to a civic swap (especially in a GA)

That is true! I would vote for "reconsidering". Closing borders with Pericles seems a better idea indeed. (and it is not even a real (full) turn that we would replay...)

 

[Flo7]

I vote for replaying.

Normally I am against it, since it greatly reduces fun and learning, but this situation is a little special...

- we could theoretically have known the effect if we had calculated expenses (ridiculous amount of work with our empire). So it is different from loosing a battle and replay...
- I think we could survive the 5 turns of merc, by reasigning spec ... but I wont do it since it will take hours and is stupid work
- As Rusten said, to lose a game in such a way would be stupid

Normally "no replay" is the right rule, since it reduces fun. But to make it a eternal principal seems also a bit ridiculous

 

[Snaaty]

I´m sharing your opinion

so here we go:

R 7:
GA, but this time only revolte to theo and close borders with Peri
Recapture the lost Egypt city, continue speading sushi… …sushi all over or death
Prepare to take last Bull city on islands

R8:
Capture last island from Bull, make peace for 200 gold and map. He doesn’t want to capitulate… …idiot
Get another GG
Move 1 GG into Achen, 1 into Carthage, would advise to build a mil.acad. in each city and make both cities our main army production sites. Carthage will build the IW, Achen WP
Find out that Bull has another island city
Start to draft a new army of infs
Egypt revolt in Memphis
Sushi cities now are running 2 scientists and 2 merchants thanks to growth
Research at 350 money around 0 at 0% reseach

R9:
Spreading sushi, moving army towards Zara
Research at 500 but loosing 50 gold at 0% research

R10:
Gaining about +80 gold per Turn thanks to city growth, back at +30 gold at 0 research (but will decrease again due to spreading sushi MORE&#8230
After spreading sushi, -120 gold at 0 reseach…
Whip WS… …and we really need it now

R11:
Peri cancels some seafood-deals
Money jumps up to +380 per turn… …yumyum
Nappy will trade arti, industrialism down to 9 turns and will speed up
A plan forms… …ind for arti with Nappy, then backstab Zara when new army is up and in place
Steal Combustion (and DR + Archery… …we had some spypoints left and quite some spies up there near Ramses)
Spypoints get switched to Peri (about 500 per turn)

Another break…

 

[Snaaty]

R11:
Spreading sushi, only the second Egypt island and Bullland are missing now (about 15 cities)
Moving army towards Zara
Money and research are growing more and more

R12:
Nothing new, you know… …sushi…army…moving…
800 beakers and 150 gold now at 0% research and rising

R13 & 14:
See above, research at almost 1000 beakers now, sushi only missing in some cities, but most execs are on the way already.
We can finish industr. this turn by producing research in some cities (which I would do), then we should be able to trade for arti with Nappy.
Some cannons I started to produce already (feel free to start some more), they will be switched to arti the turn after we trade for it
Overall, things are looking good, only thing we have to watch out is our money, we will loose about 200 gold when the GA ends (but even if it should come close, producing wealth should do the trick)

And a picture that summarizes most of it, showing our army, fleet, research and money:

View attachment 183323

 

[Snaaty]

Something else just came to my mind... ...our cities are growing each turn thanks to sushi... ...but they also would grow with a little less sushi... ...so next player feel free to gift some seafood to our vassals (and stop the crab deal with Hanni), because each seafood we give away will increase our gold by about 40per turn and with about 10 seafood less, we still would get about +20 food per city

 

[timmy827]

lurker comment:

I heartily endorse Snaaty's advice. Looking around, Nagoya has it's food box at 183 (!)/48 or something. - if the overflow is handled right, it would still grow every turn 5 or 6 times EVEN IF you switched to State Property and worked tiles to keep the food balance even.

Also only about 800 of your 3700 gold income is from the shrines + HQ at the moment. Of course a good deal of the rest is from trade routes and merchants, but I fear for your bottom line once the GA ends.

Unfortunately you can only gift resources they don't already have (this might be lifted if you spread Sushi to them, not sure). This might sound a bit crazy, but I would consider pillaging some of your own seafood as well.

A pity you're not spiritual or have the CR - in this situation you'd be able to get all the practical benefits of the corp food and paying half the cost by switching in and out of State Property every few turns.

 

[Flo7]

I also noticed that many cities are having more food surplus each round than they need to grow. Another thing to mention is, that many of these cities do not use (all / any) specialist slots !!
Utica, our golden city has 4 merchant slots open, each is worth 10 gold/turn. Before we give away seafood I would go to all sushi-cities once, fill all the empty slots except merchants and start work high production tiles.

 

[Snaaty]

Just to clarify, because i might have caused some misunderstandings:

1. Sushi alwas brings profit... ...ALWAYS... ...so sushi must be ALWAYS spammed to all cities ASAP

2. No way we are running broke... ...just wanted to prevent us loosing money for 1-3 turns after the GA ends, because we better save some money for upgrading... ...our science and money increases about 80 gold + beakers each time you hit enter (maybe will decrease to +50 after the GA)

3. We are getting 1000 beakers at 0% research and rising, see above. We never ever need to touch the research slider again and still would be able to tech enough to attack Perikles

4. With a little optimising, we can get the money arround to +500 gold next turn, by hiring more merchants, whipping more buildings + giving away 6 seafood to our vassals (including canceling the deal with Hanni). I would do this anyways, because we simply need the money now more then the food.

5. Main problem in our game isnt winning... ...we will win, no way the AI can prevent it, but the fact that you have to check every single damn city every turn for whipping, specialists and optimising. And each time you whip away an assigned specialist, you have to start over again, because they are all deassigned

6. All our northpolecities are having sushi, but no buildings and such, because they just received it recently and have to grow to be whipped... ...so far, they only cost money, but once the first buildings are whipped, then we will have 10 more cities online bringing in loads of cash and reseach due to specialists... ...we will never ever have to work a single tile for these cities if we dont want to

...

My idea to continue:

a)
Trade for Arti with Nappy, keep slider at 0%, whipp some tanks and arti and upgrade our units with the money we make and invade Zara

or b)
tech a little more (we should soon be able to bring the slider up to 30% again), invade Peri with Mechinfs or ModernArmour

...

Think a) is easier and faster, if Peri should be launching we still can raze his capital (teching we cant avoid, so we soon sould have the technology to do so without too many problems...)

 

[Flo7]

5. Main problem in our game isnt winning... ...we will win, no way the AI can prevent it, but the fact that you have to check every single damn city every turn for whipping, specialists and optimising. And each time you whip away an assigned specialist, you have to start over again, because they are all deassigned

Yep, that is so painfull, happy that it is not my turnset
A good way to manage cities is to activate max. gpp in the city manager and then de-assign artists..

a)
Trade for Arti with Nappy, keep slider at 0%, whipp some tanks and arti and upgrade our units with the money we make and invade Zara

or b)
tech a little more (we should soon be able to bring the slider up to 30% again), invade Peri with Mechinfs or ModernArmour

...

Think a) is easier and faster, if Peri should be launching we still can raze his capital (teching we cant avoid, so we soon sould have the technology to do so without too many problems...)

I vote for a). I would really like to go for b) and crash Pericles but it is so time consuming

Btw did you look at the graphs, all except power are so nice
We are going stellar while Pericles took some hits, expecially the GNP. He losses about 15% when we canceled open borders