Deity please! #3

[TheMeInTeam]

@TMIT: What happened to the lighthouse in Sparta? Spy activity?

I didn't need it. I had the food tile until the final turns, where it got flipped off of me (yes, my legendary city had a tile flipped away)...those citizens were artists specs until that point.

Culture should be disabled like diplo imo :-/
Not very motivated to play this

Now you create an interesting situation:

1. Allow culture, but then you get outcomes that while 100% legit you don't like them.
2. Ban culture, but then the #1 fastest AI condition to put pressure on the human is gone.

Basically, I'll assert that culture is valid because the AI can and *actually does* go for culture wins...frequently the AI winner w/o human interference is culture. In fact, that's probably the most common AI victory type. Culture is faster than space, so the game's diplo model pushes you to either milk it to buy time for warfare expansion or to take advantage of the options given by pursuing culture. It's not as easy as it looks by the way; it's certainly no AP win.

 

[GKey]

@Gwaja Welcome! Hope you will give it a try.

There is nothing bad with bullpen or whatever thread, just not quite sure I will be able to make it 30+ games long.

 

[GKey]

@Kid_R: I threw Elepult suggestion in just to encourage more people.
TMIT proves everything will work with such a start.

Spoiler :

We got needed resource though making elepult more tempting.
Speaking of your game, I would recommend more aggressive REX, especially not lose this pigs/rice/horses site south of Athens.

Retries are absolutely welcome. And would be awesome if you post how you managed to get better results.

 

[GKey]

Culture is faster than space, so the game's diplo model pushes you to either milk it to buy time for warfare expansion or to take advantage of the options given by pursuing culture. It's not as easy as it looks by the way; it's certainly no AP win.

That's why I want it on youtube!
I mean watching you letsplays is amazing experience, but watching them after you actually tried the same map would make it just awesome.

 

[Mylene]

Yip sorry, still a nice win of course tmit, deity is deity
Iam just a bit grumpy at Civ4 atm, running out of interesting things to try pifff

 

[GKey]

Something I am curious to know:
On turn x AI is willing to trade, but on turn x+1 it becomes WFYBTA. I haven't trade anything from anyone during several last turns.
What are mechanics behind that?

I got some theory I'm not sure about:

Let's say I've traded for priesthood from China. SB is willing to trade Monarchy to me (he does not have priesthood yet). Later on SB get priesthood himself and suddenly recognizes that I traded for it already and become WFYBTA.

Does it make any sense? Does it mean AI counts towards WFYBTA only these techs it knows itself?

 

[Kid R]

It may be because you can always trade with other civs in the bottom half of the scoreboard. Perhaps you or Bull climbed into the top half?

 

[Cusanus]

Either that, or your relations simply dropped from friendly to less-than-friendly.

 

[GKey]

That's it, thx! Completely forgot about scoreboard.

SB jumping in/out WFYBTA like every second turn and I start creating new theories.

We remain at pleased.

Spoiler :

Diplomacy is a bit complicated here, HR helps though

 

[Kid R]

Quick update on second try in progress at turn 110:

Spoiler :

This time I wasn't seduced by all the gold into playing badly. At the start you need to expand, not tech like a madman, so instead of trying to build settlers while working the pig and two 3 tiles I grew Athens Snaaty style to happy cap on pig+farms, and only then allowed myself the luxury of working the golds.

So at turn 45 insted of just settling my first city and having no defense or development, I have this capital which can turn out settlers much faster, 2 workers so I can get the new cities going faster, and 3 archers so the barbs won't force my hand into non-ideal locations.



The kingdom which came by 0 AD is far superior althtough I still lost some land to Giggles. I will keep playing this as a peacemonger for the time being since we are all happy HR hindus but I doubt this is enough land for space on deity. If I somehow muddle myself to a tech edge from here at least I have enough cities to produce a decent force quickly, unlike last time.

 

[Jester Fool]

@ Kid R - I'm no Deity player, but it seems like the second try is much better. I would , however, cottage one of the flood plains since you can't grow anyway due to the happy cap. You could, of course, whip infrastructure (you are running Slavery?) but you need cottages eventually and also a tile to stagnate growth (when not able to whip due to whip anger) can be handy. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kid R]

hi jester

Fingers crossed it will turn out better in the end! I'm no deity player either but I always try these forum games and often get in a decent-looking position at this stage only to watch the AIs storm away after liberalism because I struggle to find attack opportunities.

Spoiler :

Shortly after that pic I got writing and then dropped the slider to 0% for about 30 turns till I had the main cities settled and some libraries up. At that time I cottaged the remaining 3 floods, so I guess I traded a little extra speed of settler production for 10-30 turns of cottage growth. I suspect I might have missed one city site if I went cottages because of all the Sumerian settlers running around but you never know, and since my focus early game was NOT to make the mistake from the first game of preferring commerce over REX I decided to go with the farms. With those 0 golds it's still hardly a food-rich city overall anyway so I think some farms are essential.

Actually I never went into slavery till I got the switch for free with monarchy/HR much later. None of the secondary cities seemed to have enough food to whip them (and whipping citizens off gold can't be right can it? ), so my first builds in most cities were not monument->granary but library->barracks, which is an interesting change from normal.

 

[stimpyhoek]

Spoiler :

1st try here ( I did read spoliers tho). I am a monarch player. Gettin a couple blocker city down is quite easy, had to whip the 3rd to beat Gilga there to complete seal, he got angry and declared, the end.

 

[Gwaja]

@Gwaja Welcome! Hope you will give it a try.

There is nothing bad with bullpen or whatever thread, just not quite sure I will be able to make it 30+ games long.

But this has to make 30+ games long. This is that good.

I wish I could help with creating a bullpen thread, but I don't think I will be any good in evaluating whether a certain map is a good one or not on whatever situation.

 

[GKey]

I wish I could help with creating a bullpen thread, but I don't think I will be any good in evaluating whether a certain map is a good one or not on whatever situation.

You are welcome to host "deity please! #4" if you like to. Not sure if map is good? Bring it here, we will vote!

 

[GKey]

Sorry for delay.
Reporting my elepult:

Spoiler :

Tech path was obviously AH-Mining
Then I met Giggles, his cap 12 tiles from Athens.

So it’s not going to be so easy after all with creative-protective next door neighbor.
REX ASAP! That’s why I go Agriculture after mining. I am going to farm these floodplains to get settlers out faster. Plus I will be able work more gold mines faster.

Gold provides amazing tech rate. Tech Path Agr-Wheel-Pottery-Writing.
Got writing on turn 41. Open borders with everyone, give me your religion!
Meanwhile my 1st settler arrived to 1st blocking site:

Spoiler :

C1 is better but C2 makes sure I deny both phants from Gilgamesh. Settled C2. Athens pump 2 more settlers in a row.
What research after writing? Alphabet! I would never do that on deity, but all these gold mines make me too fast. No time to wait when AI get there. I need start tech trading ASAP.

Got alpha 1600BC, and made some trades.

Spoiler :

Trade for sailing and Mono later on.

Got 4 cities, Gilgamesh is blocked. Time for elepult!
Teching HBR, hope I will get Math for it, or should I waste GS on Math? We are philo after all.

Spoiler :

While we got excellent tech rate, we are low on production. Chopping Athens will cause health problems with all these flood plains.
How many workers do I have by turn 70? 3 (three) Shame, agreed.

I managed to trade for Math in time. So what to do with GS? I bulbed compass Questionable move, I agree. I hope trade Currency/CoL for it and:

Spoiler :

Yeah! He is only one who pleased with Gilgamesh ATM. Lets keep him busy.

Joao WHEOOHRN! Gilgamesh his worst enemy so... am I that lucky?

Yes!

Spoiler :

Joao declares on Gilg! And I get construction on next turn. Making army, very slow though.

Here is Thebes, my fill in city. I am quite happy with it.

Spoiler :

It works pigs and gold while Athens finally start mature cottages, getting ready for buro.

Scout Gilg cities:

Spoiler :

Ur defended with vultures – food for chariots, no phants needed. Its my first target while phants and cats will move to Kish.

Spoiler :

Snagging some workers on the way will not hurt, I desperately need them.

Declared 175 BC – ridiculously late, but that a price for luck of forests.
Took Ur with chariots on same turn as planned, but Kish requires bombardment.

Spoiler :

Got Kish 1AD, move to Uruk.
Research set to Aesthetics for trade bait, plus we got marble, so may be we will pull TGL in Corinth. We got enough troops ATM so wonders are in option. Failure gold will not hurt even if we miss them.

Gilgamesh refusing capitulate. He might become Joao’s vassal any second and I can’t let this happen, so:

Spoiler :

On the next turn:

Spoiler :

and

Yeah!
Start Parthenon in Athens. Need get ready for Buro/Cast System/Pacifism switch and lib race. AI’s are kind of slow in tech, so our chances are not bad.

Got Uruk 250AD

Spoiler :

2 turns later I take Eridu and finally:

Spoiler :

21 turns war is over.
Gift Gilgamesh Kish back – crappy city making him friendly. Plus make this trade:

Spoiler :

Not quite sure if that was right, choice. Decreasing his relation with other AI’s may cause them declare on us. But no way had I let him trade Philo out. Order him research Guilds.

Next turn I finish Civil service and Athens finishes:

Spoiler :

Time to switch civics and run for Lib!

Going to stop here. There are many questions.
Where should I get HE?
Should I get NE in Corinth before switching civics? Or should I Stay in slavery and whip Uruk and Eridu?
What to take from Lib?
Joao is obviously next target. I need improve diplomacy somehow. All AI’s or hate me or are in WFYBTA.
There are 2 more average city sites near Athens. Should I settle them?

Empire:

Spoiler :

Tech situation:

Spoiler :

AIs are kind of slow here.Not without my help though

More brave souls for super juicy deity start!

 

[shpeka]

I got this bookmarked and might give it a try.

I'm not too sure this concerns anyone on the forums though, since my games usually take more than a month.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Looks good Gkey. Not sure if getting Gilgamesh to stop trading with everyone was a good idea. That's usually something you do late in the game vs 1 AI, you still need good diplo at this point. Good job getting MoM, that's a nice wonder.

I made a video of my game on this map which I will start uploading shortly. I won an 1800 domination win. Instead of rushing Gilgamesh I teched to cuiressairs with 5 cities.

 

[BarbarianArcher]

Gkey,
Do your cities have garrisons? It doesn't look like Sparta has one.


I might give this another try. The last one failed miserably XD

Spoiler :

I settled Sparta in Gkey's site 1. Then, idiot barbs came and razed the city as I was sending a warrior to garrison.

 

[GKey]

Looks good Gkey. Not sure if getting Gilgamesh to stop trading with everyone was a good idea. That's usually something you do late in the game vs 1 AI, you still need good diplo at this point. Good job getting MoM, that's a nice wonder.

I made a video of my game on this map which I will start uploading shortly. I won an 1800 domination win. Instead of rushing Gilgamesh I teched to cuiressairs with 5 cities.

Good! Watching it right now. No, I don't afraid of spoilers.

Spoiler :

I gave Gilgamesh Philo because I wanted him research Nationalism for me. And made him isolated, so he can't trade it out. But then I realized that he tech too slow. Questionable move, I agree. Like bulbing compass instead of making academy in Athens.

I got this bookmarked and might give it a try.

I'm not too sure this concerns anyone on the forums though, since my games usually take more than a month.

Welcome and have fun!

Gkey,
Do your cities have garrisons? It doesn't look like Sparta has one.


I might give this another try. The last one failed miserably XD

Spoiler :

I settled Sparta in Gkey's site 1. Then, idiot barbs came and razed the city as I was sending a warrior to garrison.

Spoiler :

You don't need garrison it. Warrior will be of better use fogbusting north.

And my scout fogbust future Corinth site. 2 units - complete fogbust.