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Deitymania #2: Lincoln

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lain, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. Arvoreniad

    Arvoreniad Chieftain

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    Nice work Lain! :goodjob:
    None of the AI look too scary now that you have 26 cities and a standing army. Artillery -> Bombers for Genghis?
     
  2. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    The war with Genghis will take about 10 hours. Lost a stack of 100 in one turn. But not giving up ;) ... monster update will come... eventually.

    I refuse to use nukes by the way, it's on the same level as religious victory for me. Would rather lose the game (which might very well happen, we are way beyond 1900 AD)
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  3. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Well, I lost 468 units in total this game. If it was enough for the win, we will find out tomorrow or sunday :)

    Here are his troops at one point of the game. Not sure about the "not too scary" part ;)

    Spoiler :




     
  4. Arvoreniad

    Arvoreniad Chieftain

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    That's... quite a few. I didn't realise the deity AI built so many units - production bonuses I guess. Something to look forward to when I move up from immortal.

    Good luck with it!
     
  5. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Railroads :groucho: :groucho: :groucho: :aargh: :wallbash: :aargh: :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

    The last time I can remember I went against Railroads, I had to reload in order not to lose my whole army in their territory. Scary times.

    Props for your persistance, Lain.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  6. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Update, will see if I can wrap everything up in one go :)

    Spoiler :


    The war with Alex was finished by making peace since he refused to capitulate. The most important capture has to be Athens with the Statue of Liberty, Sankore University and Spiral Minaret.



    Now it's time for recovery since there is some minor whip anger in a few cities.



    I tech towards Assembly Line, Cyrus is useful and provides Scientific Method so I can get to Communism. All boosted by a 12-turn-golden-age. Free Religion / State Property / Representation / Free Speech / Caste System, though at the end of the golden age I switch back to Slavery and Organized Religion. Since we are not done yet.



    I don't trust transitions into pure workshops and "normal" production on Deity yet. My answer to growing emancipation anger is more whipping (also, keeping my vassals from getting democracy). Since producing like that kind of assumes that you grow the cities to their optimal sizes and work a lot of tiles. But war weariness, emancipation anger and loss of resources (due to war) pose difficulties in terms of sustainability. On the other hand, with Slavery and Police State I can 2-pop-whip tanks and the city just needs size 6 maximum. I trust this more so far.

    Switch from Hereditary Rule to Representation caused some hiccups. But we know how to fix that.



    More than once I bribe Mongolia off when it looks like he might overwhelm Ragnar. It felt quite pointless at times feeding him techs when he just re-declares a few turns later anyway. But later on I was glad I did it. You will see why :)





    Alex decides that he wants to restore Greece to former glory by dogpiling on poor Ragnar. But the mighty Viking stays firm and keeps his ground well enough. With some help from me.



    Demographics look great in the golden age. And my tech pace picked up.





    The tech situation looks decent enough.



    Just to show what Ragnar had to endure for large portions of the game. Since the BCs he has been declared on and constantly under threat by Mongolia. Sure would be nice to save him from Mongolian terror and give him a spot in the peaceful American world empire ;)



    After having teched Assembly Line and built factories everywhere, I was quick to get Artillery. I thought this was all I needed to bring down Genghis. Here a quick look at his troops, already posted yesterday in a teaser.



    Challenge accepted.



    In the next update it gets serious ;)

     
  7. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Mongolian War, Part 1

    Spoiler :


    I didn't see any good forests in his territory and most of his troops were kind of far away, So I figured I'd throw my SoD on the hill next to Seoul, bombard the defenses, hit him there, let him reinforce the city and eliminate the rest.
    I didn't expect to win the war so easily, but I wanted to get a foothold on his continent while teching to Tanks to wrap it up. Before he gets nasty stuff like Tanks and/or Gunships himself. Break his resistance a bit.



    So yeah, I declared and disembarked. Promoted everyone, many Infantry got Hill Defense. Hit "End Turn". My stack was gone next turn. Half the fleet, too.

    I didn't take any screenshots of that. Shock too big. And of course there is the temptation to reload and build 100 more units before declaring and losing everything. But after taking a small break, I decided to play on. Stuff like that I don't want to reload in a series like this. In an offline game, sometimes I would do it if I just can't be bothered.

    But the point of this series is to document success aswell as failure, so it can maybe help some people in their own games to avoid mistakes like this. So I will reload when I forget to stop my worker chopping a forest I wanted to pre-chop, but attacking Genghis was a conscious decision so I accept responsibility for my foolishness ;).

    Let's just try this again then, shall we?

    I start teching towards Tanks and Bombers, while suffering sea blockades and occasional invasions by a Genghis Khan who (rightly so) thought he was winning the war. He wouldn't talk for ages, but I tried my best to keep my economy on track. At least he left Ragnar alone while in war with me.



    After 15 or so turns (which felt like eternity to me) I was able to make peace. And prepare for the next war. This time I will put more effort into it. My workers are pre-building forts for aircraft-support from the island.



    I traded for Radio from Cyrus, researched Flight myself and flicked in Fascism. This time we are going serious mode with Police State and Theocracy (last time I was even too lazy to adopt Theocracy.... I basically deserved what happened)



    Mongolia is beating on Vikings again. So his troops are concentrated in Viking mainland. I will use this chance and strike from the other side. (I never actually researched Fission, this was a placeholder... and in fact, I never researched another tech myself until the end of the game).

    He has Jet Fighters and Gunships though. It didn't exactly become easier.



    However, I have to be quick. Ragnar is melting like butter in the oven and by now, I have no tech I can give Genghis to stop him from taking him out. Ragnar lost a city, one more and he is gone. 26 vs 5 cities, I am surprised he didn't just auto-yield. Brave Viking.



    So, here we go again. 28 turns after the one-sided massacre of Seoul, the time for revenge has come.



    Genghis seems ready to dish out another beating. We will see.



    This time, Seoul is lightly defended, but with railroads this doesn't really mean much.



    Aircraft is ready to provide support and strikes Seoul. Fighters in front line attack first with lower range, Bombers follow.



    Having just disembarked, I can't take the city of course, but I send aircraft to soften him up a bit and to disencourage him from first-striking me.



    Next turn, there are more troops in Seoul. Fighters, Bombers, Artillery and mop up begins.



    I spare one unit in Seoul, hoping he tries to reinforce it and I can take out more units of his without suffering a counter attack...



    And, in fact, next turn Seoul is well defended again. Rinse and repeat. Even though he has Jet Fighters already, my Fighters+Bombers did a great job.







    I think Seoul is ready to be taken next turn. But... his main troops are still marauding in Viking mainland, causing despair among Ragnar's lines. Jelling falls too. Ragnar has just two cities left on the continent... plus two cities on insignificant islands.





    Genghis manages to scrap together some more defenses for Seoul, but I choose to take it this turn. I have to make progress with Vikings folding. And Genghis is racing in tech. And me bleeding 300 gold every turn at 10% culture which has to be turned up soon.





    Upon hitting "End Turn", I suffer a painful counterattack in Seoul...



    ... which is answered appropriately immediately. Now I need to heal a bit. Reinforcements wouldn't hurt too.



    Turn after, Ragnar loses his capital...



    But instead of capitulating, he chooses another course of action. A good decision...



    Now we are in this together, my purple friend ... for better or worse. If I can fight myself through to his territory before he loses everything, I can gift back his cities and maneuever my troops in his culture, giving me more offensive scope. I would also be able to transition my aircraft there.



    Update will end here for now. Many problems and challenges lay ahead, but the door to that continent has been forced open at last. Just maybe a bit too late.



     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  8. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Hahaha ! That quote is a nice one !
    "Did you ever know that you're my hero ? You're everything I wish I could be."

    Spoiler :
    Your power rating is encouraging at this point.
    I didn't expect GK to be able to take a tech lead like that. Never seen him do so.
    And yes, railroads are super annoying to fight against, because it makes it so easy to lose initiative on collateral damage and because stacks can merge and reinforce so easily.
    For that purpose, standing by Seoul for a few turns has served you well. Not sure if it will be enough. Will be tough anyway.

    Do you have the better units with Tanks or does he have something stronger ?
    He has Gunships that you don't have, better planes, better navy, and you have the better land units, right ?

    Hard to tell what's going on on your mainland. War weariness must be ugly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  9. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Final update, featuring the outcome.

    Spoiler :


    Yes, I have tanks but so does Genghis. For some reason, the AI doesn't build enough of them though. Gunships are annoying and Genghis reached Mech Infantry soon after aswell. So I am basically fighting with numbers against quality.

    Ragnar joining me was a big help. Not only did it open up tactical possibilities, it also meant I was able to trade for Rocketry and finally being able to get a few SAM Infantries to guard against Gunships and intercept some air strikes.



    I brought reinforcements from my mainland to take out the Korean capital, Wonsan. Wang Kon is way backwards and taking that city would allow me to bring over some aircraft, supporting a further push inland. My little stack could be taken out by Genghis with ease...



    ... which is why I threaten to attack Hyangsan with my main stack at the same time.



    Wonsan falls easily and I make the push towards Hyangsan. Genghis swinging back his main stack is a concern, but time is running out.





    Genghis distracts me by taking Athens per naval invasion, which I recapture shortly after with a few stray tanks.



    But it doesn't stop me from unleashing Bombers on Hyangsan and taking the city.



    Stack attaaaaack.





    Genghis' main stack is sitting on Ragnar's borders, I will have to face it at some point. Oh yeah, Alex vassaled to Genghis since they were both at war with Ragnar and thus, me.



    My troops keep getting weakened by Bombers and struck by Gunships. A further push inland seems too risky.



    Here is the safe route for my reinforcements by the way, through the forts on the island which I guard with some troops. Each city is whipping a unit on every 2nd turn. Had to switch some of them to wealth inbetween though. I'm living on conquest money and selling techs to Cyrus who happens to have 100 new gold on each turn for some reason.



    UN is built by Genghis and I will be the president, but diplomatic victory is still ways off. First thing I will do is to ban nuclear weapons.



    Instead of pushing inland, I go sideways to take out the weakly defended Korean cities, making my way to Ragnar by taking that route.





    Jelling and Ulsan were next. Barely defended. My mainstack is still sitting in Hyongsan fighting off occasional Gunship and Infantry attacks, also some medium sized stacks. I send spies in preparation for a city revolt. Tanks with air support should be able to snipe that.



    Sure enough, it will be painful...



    But they prevail.



    Ulsan falls too, Wang Kon only has 1 city left now and will soon break free. I make peace with him then.



    By using my mobility in Viking culture, I can surround Nidaros and take it, gifting it back to a happy Ragnar.





    ... restoring his culture even further. Will be very useful.



    After that, Genghis lost the grip on the war. I was able to spread out my troops and pick my battles where I wanted them. The last resistance awaited me in Namp'o, but was beaten down by my main stack.



    From then on, most of his cities looked like this...



    ... and were stormed one after another with spy and air support.



    Alex broke free and I made peace with Greece. I ignored Mongolia's capitulation and took every single one of his cities on the continent, also eliminating Wang Kon in the process...



    When the cities came back from revolt, that meant a quite late (better than never) domination victory.



    Certainly my toughest one on deity so far...

     
  10. Choeimok

    Choeimok Spreading the confusion

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    Spoiler :
    Congrats on slogging through this, has been a very fun game to read!
     
  11. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Was a fun one. Started out with the Great Lighthouse and 4% or so land. Went for medieval warfare against Cyrus, Cannons/Grens against Alex and late modern warfare against Genghis with heavy losses and setbacks. Was hard to assert diplomatic influence on the other continent and an all-out war was needed in the end.

    Space Victory might have been way less stressful, but I don't do those ones very often and didn't feel comfortable enough. I didn't want to be forced into a defensive war while nervously building my space parts either. It didn't fit with the storyline of the game, if you will. Finishing it with military dominance felt like the way to go, and once commited to that, there was no turning back.

    War weariness, maybe surprisingly, was almost a non-factor.

    Spoiler :










    Small cities were the key. I didn't stop whipping until the end and 10-20% culture slider was fine all the way. I was still almost going broke from supporting the units though.





    I took out 855 units in this game. Lost 498. Not the best ratio ever, that massacre played a big role in that. And medieval stuff is not the smoothest way of warfare either I suppose.

    Now hoping for an easier game next ;). Can't remember the last time I had gold in my capital or nearby.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  12. Dazzle

    Dazzle Chieftain

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    Thanks for your game, its been an entertaining read
     
  13. Arvoreniad

    Arvoreniad Chieftain

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    As you said, space might have been easier, but much less exciting - great writeup!
     
  14. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Your game had everything, great win :)
    I think it's very rewarding to accept such a big loss, and then coming back.
     
  15. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    Great play Lain. Really had everything: the terrible start, the tricky early wars, then taking on two giants in Alex then Genghis. My personal highlight was Lincoln's use of slavery throughout.
     
  16. RedKi-rr

    RedKi-rr Chieftain

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    Lain, I am also one of those who lurking for a long time but not writing. When I started to read your Toku game I noted that you only recently started to play (one month ago or so). So, it was very interesting to read someone who were facing the same problem as mine. I like your approach to the victory, I mean that you accept only stong military victory and don't use nukes. So, I had a couple of culture Deity victories or so, but never could do conquest/domination. I cannot say that I did put much effort to it, but it was similar to efforts to Civ 2 OCC Deity and to Civ 3 Deity, where I could win a couple of times. So, I just happy to see how your serious try of the Deity helped you.

    When I read you Toku game...I estimated your chances below average when you faced England...And I was very surprised how you made steel and cannons to be the tool of the victory, and moreover your diplo skills was so great! However, this game as Lincoln was even more amazing...With so few land in the beginning you showed all types of war in the game. And the moment where you lost 100 units but continue the game and won eventually is so repectful.

    Also your writing and stories show all your struggle and your emotions. I can even say that I am watching it like serial and become very happy when you find solutions in difficult situations. Thank you for sharing! I am pretty sure that after this win we can title you as solid Deity player. I hope we will see at least a couple of similar Deity games unless it becomes boring for you. .
     
  17. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Thanks a lot for your comments, made me really happy :). This game in particular was a real struggle and playing many turnsets with your advice inbetween made this win possible at all, I think. So many decisions that can go wrong here.

    I will definitely play a couple more at least. In fact, I already rolled a map and saved it. Will probably make a new thread in a few days. It will be Justinian, first random roll as always.

    Still a lot I have to learn. Just yesterday I failed horribly at a Construction rush on Deity... if I don't play with 100% focus and dedication, it's very easy to lose. So I don't think I will get bored too soon ;).

    Just need a short break. Making detailed write-ups and taking a lot of screenshots is a commitment :). Not just because of time, but in terms of emotion and energy.
     
  18. fjordan

    fjordan Chieftain

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    Thank you for a very entertaining write-up. What a great win. It also shows that people who claim "game is won" could still have encountered some serious trouble (BIC and Fippy are too good players, but I suspect some lesser Deity players might claim victory too soon). But I understand, that last war takes the biggest part of the time played and the early game is much more fun. Still, very nice to see someone play it out even after a big setback. Well done :goodjob:.
     

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