Demo Review: New Reveals

[aziantuntija]

And I am thinking that CIV V wants to get the game into the Modern Era quicker and let the players miss around with modern military and future tech a bit more than in previous Civs, where you could end most games relatively quickly.

If they think and do that then IMO its wrong. This "modern era" has been going something like 50 years (depends how you count i pretty much just threw a number ), you just cant take 100 or 200 years from middle age and add it to the modern era. BTW, my games does never temp to end quickly

 

[Xzylvador]

^^ Seconded.
I've always found the other periods going too fast and the modern age dragging on too long.
In medieval times, sometimes by the time I built my armies and they finally reached the enemy city, they were mostly obsolete and my cities suffered from the long time it took to build units instead of buildings; in modern age this was fixed, but the problem arose that I'd be spamming mech infantry and modern armor in my cities because there weren't many other useful things to build.

 

[aziantuntija]

I hear you Xzylvador, i feel the same that the ERAS, ancient, middle age etc.. tend to end very quicly. I always play with marathon speed and huge map and still there is no point in starting to build a big army before industrial age, because the units goes out of date very quickly in Civ4, yes, even in marathon speed.


Big part of the problem is also the size of the army you need in Civ4 to be effective. I mean the unit spam is just crazy in Civ4! I really belive that shrinking the unit size in Civ5 is also going to help in getting rid of this outdated unit problem, and also no more managing +400 units in modern era

 

[stealth_nsk]

We also don't know how many turns are required for each technology at the beginning and how many turns required for unit production.

Screenshots shows 8-10 turns per technology, but its for mid-game and I suppose demo to be run on fast settings.

 

[Xzylvador]

Big part of the problem is also the size of the army you need in Civ4 to be effective. I mean the unit spam is just crazy in Civ4! I really belive that shrinking the unit size in Civ5 is also going to help in getting rid of this outdated unit problem, and also no more managing +400 units in modern era

I hope so too; but truth be told, the only reason of the unit spam in Civ4 late-game is that there's just to real good alternative. If you've got nothing else (useful) to build but units, you'll still ending spamming units.
Of course you could put all your cities to build science. But if you're playing right, who cares, you're already popping new techs every 3 turns or something, who cares about that extra +150 beakers to your 10k/turn), build money (again, too much of that already) or culture (again, useless in your top cities unless going for cultural victory.
So either modern age should bring a LOT more useful buildings, or building tech/money/science needs to be a lot more useful.

 

[aziantuntija]

I hope so too; but truth be told, the only reason of the unit spam in Civ4 late-game is that there's just to real good alternative. If you've got nothing else (useful) to build but units, you'll still ending spamming units.
Of course you could put all your cities to build science. But if you're playing right, who cares, you're already popping new techs every 3 turns or something, who cares about that extra +150 beakers to your 10k/turn), build money (again, too much of that already) or culture (again, useless in your top cities unless going for cultural victory.
So either modern age should bring a LOT more useful buildings, or building tech/money/science needs to be a lot more useful.

The funny part is that in my latest game (wich i havent played for about a year) im in a HUGE war and my +400 units is not even enough because China has more units and he has the upper hand, so i NEED to build even more units. Civ4 is just crazy, CRAZY game in terms of unit spam


The unit spam is pretty much the reason i just cant play Civ4 anymore, i hate to give orders to that unit size I know you cant have 1upt with over 400 units but i also hated the micromanagement when ill must build balanced stacks out of those 400 units.


To stealth_nsk, still reducing units means that one unit (wich at LEAST everybody has) in Civ5 will be more meaningful than just one unit was in Civ4. The difference grows even more when you add units to the comparison, for example lets say 3 units in Civ5 is way more than 3 units in Civ4. Altough building a unit will take longer in Civ5, i dont belive it will take almost a whole era to build lets say something like 2 units.

The point is that i think that this time the player CAN have more meaningful army earlier in the game without sacrificing everything else to build it.

 

[Nicolas10]

I hear you Xzylvador, i feel the same that the ERAS, ancient, middle age etc.. tend to end very quicly. I always play with marathon speed and huge map and still there is no point in starting to build a big army before industrial age, because the units goes out of date very quickly in Civ4, yes, even in marathon speed.


Big part of the problem is also the size of the army you need in Civ4 to be effective. I mean the unit spam is just crazy in Civ4! I really belive that shrinking the unit size in Civ5 is also going to help in getting rid of this outdated unit problem, and also no more managing +400 units in modern era

The smaller forces should be a massive factor in taking advantage of a technological advantage. If you only have a land force of 10-20 units, you should be able to upgrade them relatively quickly when you research/unlock a new tech advance, provided you have the gold.

 

[Thyrwyn]

They have stated that upgrading units will be free

 

[Silverdawn]

There are 10 social policies. I listed them here based on what the interface was showing at a demo:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9294071&postcount=11

 

[Ahriman]

They have stated that upgrading units will be free

This was a long time ago, and wasn't incredibly clear (it was second hand).

It might be true, and I'm guessing it probably is.

But I can't help but kinda hope not; I'm worried about the situation where you get a new tech, and instantly get a huge military bonus across your entire army, and then invade your neighbor and destroy their army with your superior military in the 6-8 turns before they manage to reach the same tech.

 

[Yakk]

This was a long time ago, and wasn't incredibly clear (it was second hand).

It might be true, and I'm guessing it probably is.

But I can't help but kinda hope not; I'm worried about the situation where you get a new tech, and instantly get a huge military bonus across your entire army, and then invade your neighbor and destroy their army with your superior military in the 6-8 turns before they manage to reach the same tech.

Naw -- just have 1 unit upgrade per turn (or every N turns).

If you fail to use your upgrade on a given turn, it is handed out to a random unit.

 

[Ahriman]

Naw -- just have 1 unit upgrade per turn

This would work.

 

[Schuesseled]

honestly i'd rather just pay gold, if gold is no longer swappable for science

(and ps science levels are far lower now +36 for an empire in modern ages according to one screen.)

Your gonna have heaps of it going spare.

Theres only so many times you can click *purchase now* before you give up trying to lower your gold reserves.

 

[Kazimierz Wielk]

Anybody notice how close the two cities were to each other? Only 1 tile apart. Does that mean no more limitations on city proximities? (Perhaps this has been discussed somewhere else....if so, I'm sorry.)

 

[Dunkah]

It was stated in several interviews that Cities would have a noticable penalty for close proximity to other cities.

 

[mjs0]

It would make sense that cities could be more crowded given the way territory is claimed now.

The two cities can grow their territory in opposite directions and if I remember correctly the surrounding territory can now be worked to a 3 tile radius.

 

[Ahriman]

Its going to be harder/more interesting to figure out "optimal" city placement than it was before. There's likely a tradeoff between short-term growth (dense placement) and long term maximums (sparse placement).

I hope the AI has good city placement algorithms, this is one of the big weaknesses of Civ4.

3 tile radius means... 30 tiles accessible? So avoiding overlap probably not as important.

 

[CivOtaku]

They have said that there will be a penalty if two cities are too close. This was probably just made with Worldbuilder.

 

[kiwitt]

Spoiler Image :

But I do not like the rivers. It looks like simply an extension of the sea into the river. In Civ4 they flowed, which I liked. Made the map alive.

 

[kiwitt]

Anybody notice how close the two cities were to each other? Only 1 tile apart. Does that mean no more limitations on city proximities? (Perhaps this has been discussed somewhere else....if so, I'm sorry.)

You need to see my mod ... my cities are close together. In some cases right next to each other e.g. Rotterdam and The Hague and the Ruhr Area Cities. I used specialists to deal with any food, production and gold issues, much like modern cities.