Narz
keeping it real
Dems achieving goals... how's that going?Excluding people who will not help you achieve your goals is logical. Rational, even.
Dems achieving goals... how's that going?Excluding people who will not help you achieve your goals is logical. Rational, even.
This again doesn't seem to be relevant to "taking on people who take them further from their goals".Dems achieving goals... how's that going?
Broaden the collation yeah and make the messenging impactful/meaningful to the largest swaths of the population.This again doesn't seem to be relevant to "taking on people who take them further from their goals".
Let's flip it around then. The Democrats should embrace those on the left, wholly and fully. I mean, they're not achieving their goals, so a change is needed. Right?
That's not what I said. I said, if the Democrats need to include someone like RFK given all the things GoodEnoughForMe pointed out, because they're not achieving their goals, then what's the harm in doing the effective opposite?Broaden the collation yeah and make the messenging impactful/meaningful to the largest swaths of the population.
Inconsistent, she campaigned with Liz Cheney for about a month, explicitly welcoming Dick. Who is arguably the single most damaging American politician post Vietnam.Dude come on. RFK is a grifter. He has multiple instances of sexual assault on his record. He’s staunchly anti vax, anti science, and pro Putin. Of course Harris wants no part.
Yeah the Cheney stuff was incredibly tone stuff.Inconsistent, she campaigned with Liz Cheney for about a month, explicitly welcoming Dick. Who is arguably the single most damaging American politician post Vietnam.
Shoulda taken RFK's call. It would've demonstrated that the tent is wide enough to include not only right wing establishment figures like Cheney, but also those outside it. Not doing so sent the message "nah we won't talk to you if you don't follow us on covid" when of course about 35-45% of the electorate, uh, doesn't like those same pieties.
Inconsistent, she campaigned with Liz Cheney for about a month, explicitly welcoming Dick. Who is arguably the single most damaging American politician post Vietnam.
Shoulda taken RFK's call. It would've demonstrated that the tent is wide enough to include not only right wing establishment figures like Cheney, but also those outside it. Not doing so sent the message "nah we won't talk to you if you don't follow us on covid" when of course about 35-45% of the electorate, uh, doesn't like those same pieties.
Dems achieving goals... how's that going?
Dems are not a left-wing party. There are a few left-wing people there, but never at the top. As Biden concisely put it: "I beat the socialist".
Also, in some other western countries you have seen left-wing governments. The turn to the far right in the Eu has local reasons, unrelated to the citizenry in the US.
Getting beaten by Trump twice (and barely winning after a pandemic & recession) isn't particularly inspiring.They have basically been the most broadly successful leftwing party in a western country in the 21st century in terms of electoral victories (it’s been a not great century for left wing parties).
Getting beaten by Trump twice (and barely winning after a pandemic & recession) isn't particularly inspiring.
RFK sounds like a consimate s***bag. I hadn't heard about pro-Putin bit before. From what I've read he had diaries which spelled out escapades with dozens of women while his wife lay dying. Bill Clinton was also friends w Epstein and did who knows what. The point is that no one in our internet age is squeaky clean & voters are numbed out with all the allegations of this & that to the point where they just block it all out (otherwise how would we have Trump).
Not saying Harris should've necessarily embraced RFK but it's just a default to shun anyone these days w a sketchy past & therefore joining up w the right is the only viable option for them (bringing their supporters w them).
We're in an era of desperation & that leads to the desire for naked power.
Bernie Sanders was recently denounced as a racist by some left-aligned people for his statement on H1b visas. He had his defenders, like usual, but as with previous allegations of his racism and sexism, nothing stopped his detractors.Who cares if some leftists are personally dislikeable, or have weird opinions? That isn't the concern here.
That's pretty standard, health food space full of people like thateven a broken clock is right twice a day.
and the opposite, for the record. i know someone who's very aware of the ills as to food production and consumption (even in the eu's regulatory market) and they have personally constructed a method of consumption that's both affordable, mostly ethical, and quite healthy. like, actual proper organic stuff, chasing homegrown things, zero container waste products, stuff like that. it takes a lot of work and smarts to do that in the current market, let alone affordably, so they're consistently impressive; but they also believe in 5G radio tower cancer nonsense.
Lifestyle related illness like 50+ percent of deaths in US, infectious disease not even in top 10 iirc, I agree keep basic vaccines to keep it that way (infectious disease down) but it's not much of a comparison, RFK has repeated said he doesn't plan to ban or block any vaccines and Trump is amoral his stance on vaccines will be whatever thinks will boost his imagei'm glad RFK is trying to do something about the toxins and food quality in the US, but it's bluntly not as important as vaccination.
Narz's argument is, partly, "so what if they did bad things". To engage with a different argument would require its own tangent.Bernie Sanders was recently denounced as a racist by some left-aligned people for his statement on H1b visas. He had his defenders, like usual, but as with previous allegations of his racism and sexism, nothing stopped his detractors.
Core of it is there: Dems don't go left because of the culture of the progressive movement. They don't really wanna alienate large swathes of the public to court a group that's itching to condemn in that way. Particularly when they're gonna have to grapple with immigration, in some form or fashion, and they see... that.
Wouldn't be surprised if some of that was fake, but then again some of the takes I see on this forum are so absurd it's hard not to believe those espousing them are plants to goofify & spread confusion (iirc that's pretty common in Russia)Bernie Sanders was recently denounced as a racist by some left-aligned people for his statement on H1b visas. He had his defenders, like usual, but as with previous allegations of his racism and sexism, nothing stopped his detractors.
Yes, the culture... doesn't broaden the appeal, it reduces it.Narz's argument is, partly, "so what if they did bad things". To engage with a different argument would require its own tangent.
Alienation isn't a problem in Narz's suggested scenario. The broadening of appeal is meant to be key. Moreso than any potential negative consequences.