Democrats Alienating America's Allies?

[Desmond Hawkins]

By nations allied to you, I assume you mean governments allied to you. I doubt you will find that Italian nationals are less hostile to you than Canadian nationals.

 

[Steph]

I don't think UK was simply a puppet of the US here.

I've the impression they were not entirely convinced, but believe it would be better to be in, to be able to influence the US in a positive way.

And they tried to get more support from UN to endorse the intervention.

If the UK went, I think they may have been a bit forced by the US agenda, but then I they decide it was better to go than to keep out.

You can wonder if it was a wise move or not if you wish, but still, it was a real decision.

 

[Stapel]

So far, two Dutch soldiers have died in Iraq.

It is indeed overdone to call the US actions completely unilateral. But, the Dutch government would very much prefer a 'more broad international support'. And I don't think that's gonna happen with GWB, so Kerry has a point.

 

[bobgote]

Don't know if we've lost anyone over there yet.

but yeah, i'm sure that if we heard yankee politicians diminishing our role over there, we'd be unhappy. considering the relative size of our military, our commitments in iraq and afghanistan have been fairly large (in addition to ongoing peacekeeping commitments in east timor etc). however, i think the majority of our troops that saw action were SAS (which probably explains low casualty rate).

Anyway we certainly see ourselves having made a commitment that we'd not like to see described as "token".

 

[carlosMM]

I wonder how the British or Polish soldiers would like to hear you say that.

I wonder how the British or Polish soldiers would like to vote when asked whether they want to go!

 

[yoshi74]

@rmsharpe

I'am curious that you worry about the democrats alienating your iraq allies, while it wasn't a problem that bush alienated most other allies before the war.

Its so easy to see the splinter in someone else eye, while overlooking the balk in its own eye.

 

[carlosMM]

btw, must tell this: the 3 Spanish guys I talked to about this last year were not soldiers - one had completed service, the two others were too young - but the older one knew enough german to express his feeling: 'Führer befiehl - wir folgen!' (Führer order - we follow!)

 

[jack merchant]

I don't feel alienated at all.

The only country in the so-called coalition with any influence at all over the US is the UK -the rest of us mostly allowed our names to be put on the list - hell. the name of the Netherlands was put on the list at a time that we didn't even have a proper government ! I think most countries sent troops because they wanted to show they were good allies rather than because we necessarily agreed with the way in which the invasion came about.

 

[amadeus]

@rmsharpe

I'am curious that you worry about the democrats alienating your iraq allies, while it wasn't a problem that bush alienated most other allies before the war.

Thank you! I was waiting for this question.

Who are our "other allies" that Bush alienated?

 

[Zeekater]

Thank you! I was waiting for this question.

Who are our "other allies" that Bush alienated?

Since you define 'ally' as someone who's goverment agreed on Iraq and send a few token soldiers (who aren't worth any less therefor), there is no point in argueing.
If the coalition of the willing are all the allies the US has in the world, that's kinda sad...

 

[amadeus]

That's not an answer, Zeekater. Who are our "alienated" allies? Name them.

 

[Zeekater]

That's not an answer, Zeekater. Who are our "alienated" allies? Name them.

Germany, Russia among others.

 

[amadeus]

Among others? Who are those others?

France, maybe?

If that's what you're going to say, you've got a whole three countries, one of which isn't really our ally (Russia.)

 

[stormbind]

That's a big assumption that I wouldn't make.

I don't agree with rmsharpe's political views, but I wouldn't suggest he's a liar either. Thus, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Was that so terribly wrong?

There were only 5 nations that really spoke up prior to Iraq, and they created two camps..

US & UK vs. France, Germany, & Russia

Everyone else seemed to be sitting on the fence, so who knows how many were allienated. However, it could be that those 5 nations made the juiciest stories but were not necessarilly the most committed to either cause. Our views are defined by the media, not reality.

 

[Zeekater]

Among others? Who are those others?

France, maybe?

If that's what you're going to say, you've got a whole three countries, one of which isn't really our ally (Russia.)

That was my initial point actually...
Russia, and a large portion of the EU are the biggest allies the US has.
But of course, out of convenience, we count all the rest of the countries too, we all know how much big an ally ... lessay... equador is to the US.

 

[Elgalad]

That was my initial point actually...
Russia, and a large portion of the EU are the biggest allies the US has.
But of course, out of convenience, we count all the rest of the countries too, we all know how much big an ally ... lessay... equador is to the US.

Well, you've told us what RMSharpe's definition of an Ally was, so what is yours?


-Elgalad

 

[amadeus]

Who in the EU are opposing us, Zeekater? Why can't you answer this question? Is it because a majority of NATO and the EU supports the United States?

 

[storealex]

That's not an answer, Zeekater. Who are our "alienated" allies? Name them.

RMSharpe, look at the list of allies for this war, and then look at the list of allies in the first Gulf War. I think you'll be able to see the difference - even France helped you out the first time. Maybe if Bush didn't support Israel in everything it does, the Arab countries might stick up for you too, and half the Muslim world wouldn't hate you so much.

Btw, I live in one of your allies - Denmark, we have troops in Balkan, Afghanistan and Iraq, I know two guys who served in Iraq. And Im not offended by Kerry. However, Im offended by Bush, who made us fight a war for a lie, and who screwed up in so many ways:

- Only protecfing oilministry from looters
- Discharging the Iraqi army (Thousands of armed men without income, briliant)
- Al sadr
- Declare Bath party for enemies, should have focused on Saddam and his closest henchmen
- Shock and Awe

 

[North King]

Ha! Democrats alienating our allies! I'd say the Republican administration alienating the populations of almost all nations on Earth and quite a few governments are a greater cause for concern.

 

[Zeekater]

Who in the EU are opposing us, Zeekater? Why can't you answer this question? Is it because a majority of NATO and the EU supports the United States?

I can't answer it because I would need to look up the exact ones and numbers, I shall refer to what Storealex said, he said it best.
The ones who support the US are the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, used to be Spain, Italy I don't know, and then some more small countries.
The ones i know for sure who opposed it are Russia, France, Germany as large players. Russia one of the largest countries in the world, France, Germany the largest countries in the EU.
2 against 1 (Fr, Ge vs UK)