Denmark? Why not Netherlands?

[CYZ]

Although I don't dislike the Denmark civ it does displease me. The Danes are a pure millitary civ which is really too bad. The Dutch could've had a UI or UB and probably a UA that is focussed around trade or aquaconstruction.

We also can expect the Dutch to not be included for a pretty long time now, if at all. As a Dutchie this dissapoints me.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

You must wait 2 years, just like for civ3 & civ4 !

 

[Samegerilja]

I want everyone to be aware that Harald Haardraade was in fact born in Norway and it was as Norwegian he lost at Stamford Bridge 1066 and ended the Viking era. But as usual Denmark wants to steal history from Norway, its typical. As Civilization is a game that bases alot on history and straight facts, gamers should know the real stories.

 

[Keejus]

Good thing that has nothing whatsoever to do with Harald Bluetooth Gormsson, then!

 

[Samuil]

I tried to research the history of Denmark today but I didn't find it to be a particularly influential or powerful empire, but I don't know, maybe I'm wrong?

You`re definitely wrong... I am not Danish, nor Dutch, but I can tell you that Vikings resound strongly than the Dutch
I am sure you will get your wish in a future DLC though, Holland is one big market

 

[Shurdus]

I want everyone to be aware that Harald Haardraade was in fact born in Norway and it was as Norwegian he lost at Stamford Bridge 1066 and ended the Viking era. But as usual Denmark wants to steal history from Norway, its typical. As Civilization is a game that bases alot on history and straight facts, gamers should know the real stories.

I lolled.

 

[Schalke 04]

I do think they should go back to land Civs for the next one (sorry Netherlands), but that's two naval ones in a row.

A good argument!

There were quite some naval Civs introduced as DLC. So I guess that the next ones will have another emphasis. That are no good odds for Netherland.

I would like to have a Dutch Civilization back to Civ (I liked their representation in Civ3 for example), however I prefer the idea to be not to focussed on western Civilizations as well.

If there was a new European Civ, I would vote for a "slavish" Civ, which could represent great parts of Eastern Europe. But I know that such a Civ would cause a lot of discussion here in the community (espescially from the members with a slavish background ).

 

[Schalke 04]

Although I don't dislike the Denmark civ it does displease me. The Danes are a pure millitary civ which is really too bad. The Dutch could've had a UI or UB and probably a UA that is focussed around trade or aquaconstruction.

I like your point!

A Dutch Civ could be focussed completey on trading. How many Civs do we have that are focussed on gold/trading? The Arabs OK, but apart from that I can't recall much. If you consider the importance of gold in Civ 5 AND the fact that many Civs are more or less focussed on warmongering, I would greatly welcome a really gold focussed Civ, which could be the Netherlands.

With the Mongols, we have a first Civ that has a Great Person as a UU. Maybe the Dutch could have a Great Merchant-UU, along wit a convenient UB and UA.

My idea is, that the Dutch focus on buying things instead of producing them. It would make a great addition to the diversification of this game and could allow some different strategies.

EDIT: Maybe one of the Dutch's unique abilites could be a (small) variation of its SPs (for example the commerce tree), with more benfits goldwise.

 

[Pac-Dragon]

I like that idea, too. Maybe a Dutch UA that includes a purchasing discount. If that was combined with double or triple gold from meeting CS's, you could get some fun early gold rush strategies.

 

[Schalke 04]

Dutch Empire
Willem van Oranje
VOC: no maintenance costs for naval units, extra 1 happiness from luxuries
Polder: built on flat coastal tiles, +1 food for every adjacent water tile
Jacht: replaces caravel, slightly higher stats and can move after attacking

Feel free to comment on balance/originality.

A great suggestion! The "no maintenance cost for naval units" occured to me as well.
But maybe that is a little bit too much. I believe that the Netherlands would have a starting bias to be coastal. They could spam naval units like nothing and be pretty much invulnerable, especially on archipelago maps. Mabe half the maintenance costs for naval units would be more appropiate. BTW: may I ask, what "VOC" stands for? (you don't need to explain polder and jacht though )

However, given the fact that many Civs are already naval based, I would like to see the Dutch to be focussed on gold/trade. Nevertheless, for a naval Civ, I like your approach for the orange empire

 

[Louis XXIV]

My idea for the Dutch, who care:
UB: Levee/Dike
UI: Windmill improvement (1 prod, 1 gold or something)
UA: East India Company - Free harbor in all coastal cities (automatic trade routes, cheaper ships), City States give double gold when you first meet them.

I want everyone to be aware that Harald Haardraade was in fact born in Norway and it was as Norwegian he lost at Stamford Bridge 1066 and ended the Viking era. But as usual Denmark wants to steal history from Norway, its typical. As Civilization is a game that bases alot on history and straight facts, gamers should know the real stories.

Harald Bluetooth. Harald Hardrada is Norwegian in the scenario.

 

[seasnake]

You know, every time a new DLC is released with a civ there's an immediate backlash of X is more important than Y and should have been included first!

Denmark is a great choice. Netherlands will be great someday, maybe in a scenario where you try to settle the new world and have privateers competing, you can play as the french, english, spanish or dutch.

However every time a new civ is introduced there is a rush to explain why another civ is more important/a better choice. Seriously guys, let it go.

 

[Scaramanga]

But maybe that is a little bit too much. I believe that the Netherlands would have a starting bias to be coastal. They could spam naval units like nothing and be pretty much invulnerable, especially on archipelago maps. Mabe half the maintenance costs for naval units would be more appropiate. BTW: may I ask, what "VOC" stands for? (you don't need to explain polder and jacht though )

"Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagni" is what I was going for. But "Corporate Finance" might be a better label for a unique ability.

Louis XXIV'S unique improvement and unique building is a clever approach. I guess not every civ needs a unique unit.

An East Indiaman Great Merchant replacement occurred to me as well. It could defend while embarked and bring in more gold during trade missions.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Great Merchants are kind of a pain to get (unlike great generals, they compete with other kinds). I decided to suggest no UU because it made them unique. But that at least solves the problem of there being no space for a merchantman.

 

[Save_Ferris]

My idea for the Dutch, who care:
UB: Levee/Dike
UI: Windmill improvement (1 prod, 1 gold or something)
UA: East India Company - Free harbor in all coastal cities (automatic trade routes, cheaper ships), City States give double gold when you first meet them.



Harald Bluetooth. Harald Hardrada is Norwegian in the scenario.

But they need to have a UU! What about an artillery replacement like the one they used to fight Napoleon?

 

[Louis XXIV]

To increase the odds of putting them in the game, they need to be unique. Vikings have speedy sea raiders. That's a unique experience and play style. Polynesians give you an ancient push to rush out and explore. Spain is the exploration Civ with a boost to settling another continent halfway through the game. The Inca are the mountain civ, etc.

What would the Dutch have for play style that isn't similar to England? If they were the builder civ without the need to rely on unique units that would be unique. Essentially, give them a giantly powerful economy rather than needing a UU. Besides, how many people have complained about Civs with two UUs being inferior?

 

[Nerochev]

Because Denmark has had a meaningful existence.

 

[Geronimoo]

To increase the odds of putting them in the game, they need to be unique. Vikings have speedy sea raiders. That's a unique experience and play style. Polynesians give you an ancient push to rush out and explore. Spain is the exploration Civ with a boost to settling another continent halfway through the game. The Inca are the mountain civ, etc.

What would the Dutch have for play style that isn't similar to England? If they were the builder civ without the need to rely on unique units that would be unique. Essentially, give them a giantly powerful economy rather than needing a UU. Besides, how many people have complained about Civs with two UUs being inferior?

If your standards stand as such then I believe the Inuit are more than qualified of making it in Civ 5.

 

[fat_tonle]

I think we just need to start digging into the history books and find something unique about these civs that can translate into better game play. Those Dutch bonuses sound fantastic to me, even though it is a bit recycled. I am thinking gold bonuses for Portugal while Dutch get bonuses from trading or acquiring luxury. Something that isn't exactly as we have it now. Frankly I don't think either civ will show up any time soon. If you add a religion component you can diversify these civs and leaders even more. Right now there isn't enough depth in the gameplay to give a fresh take on every new DLC.

 

[Louis XXIV]

If your standards stand as such then I believe the Inuit are more than qualified of making it in Civ 5.

Well, no. I think the standards for Civs that should be considered is very broad. Fun, unique gameplay is one of about five factors. Primarily, you have to be able to point to a major accomplishment or lasting achievement and a dominance of the region and time period. The Dutch have these things. Next, you can factor things like geographic diversity (which hurts the Dutch). Finally, you ask if they would bring something new to gameplay. I think the Dutch can, but not if they end up just being England-lite.