Department of Stranger Affairs

[Conroe]

They sent a message back saying they would discuss and come up with a more specific plan and also dont want to give away Electricity for free.

You probably ought to reply, if you haven't done so already, that you would not expect to get a free tech. We don't want them getting too worried about us. Yet ...

highlight Fission, then Hamburger builds on the Manhatten until 1 turn left.

The only thing that concerns me about this is if they have a spy or 2 running around our land. We might ought to peruse their map and see if they have built Scotland Yard somewhere.

 

[killercane]

We could just ask no spies.

 

[Conroe]

They wouldn't find that suspicious?

 

[killercane]

We could throw in a bunch of other demands to mask that one particular request. Need some ideas though... Maybe a Loco continent settle agreement or something.

By the way, there is only one source of oil I see, in the ocean to our SW. Do we want to grab it? Its an otherwise worthless city (ice, maybe a crab, and the rest sea tiles).

 

[Whomp]

I think Sirian is truly looking to change outcomes. I would say grab the oil for sure. It could be the difference maker.

I would continue to prefer a deal where we dogpile Epsilon. The others are beatable. They are not.

 

[killercane]

Alright. What all units need oil, ships, planes and tanks? We have a new message from Epsilon, they mention Fascism again, wtf for? Rushmore and try to get a PA with us?:

Dear Piffle,

My teammates were so impatient to get started on Industrialism that
they forgot about our agreement and started researching Electricity
right away. We will give you Electricity for free when we discover
it in 2 turns.

After Electricity our wish list is:
1. Industrialism
2. Combustion
3. Plastics
4. Fascism
5. Tank Rampage!

We would love to trade Industrialism for a deal involving Combustion
or Fascism. But if those techs sound useless to you, we'd be willing
to research them ourselves and trade for something else.

Let us know how you'd like to proceed.

Your Allies,

General_W
Servant of The Leader
Epsilon Team!

Now I feel bad about not wanting to give them Democracy (and nuking the nuts off of them). You have to admit they are awfully smarmy and have it coming. So do we send demo or not? Where the hell are they headed? Whats their endgame here? Rush through Aloha to achieve domination (requiring 43% more land area)?

 

[Conroe]

I would continue to prefer a deal where we dogpile Epsilon. The others are beatable. They are not.

My fear with this is that by allying with the axis, we will be handing the win to Innovia. But you are 100% correct, there is no way we will be able to beat Epsilon in a fair fight.

they mention Fascism again, wtf for? Rushmore and try to get a PA with us?:

PA's have to be enabled in the startup options in order to be used. At least in single player mode ... I assume that MP works the same.

If PA's are available, though, I'd definitely be in favor of signing a PA with them!

Where the hell are they headed? Whats their endgame here?

No clue about the endgame ... but I'd say they are headed for 3 Gorges Dam.

Now I feel bad about not wanting to give them Democracy (and nuking the nuts off of them). You have to admit they are awfully smarmy and have it coming. So do we send demo or not?

Tricky one to answer. I definitely sense a change in tone with this note. The previous one was a "friends for life" type attitude, whereas this latest one seems more of a "eh, its OK if you don't want to trade with us" stance.

I do think we should reply that we don't expect Electricity for free. A "spirit of friendship" type note, if you know what I mean. Not sure if Democracy is the answer, though. I guess it depends on the timeline. Will we be in a position to go nuclear before they get Tanks? If not, then maybe we should be looking at going along with them for a while longer.

 

[killercane]

Im sure they will research Industry before Innovia finishes Rocketry, yes. Let me search out the other oil locations...

Edit: No they cant get tanks before nukes. Oil is only available with an offshore platform that we can see. There is the oil by us (needs border expansion and offshore platform) and one way up at the top of the map above Epsilon (also needing expansion and platform). So they would need Combustion, Plastics, and Industry (24K beakers). We will certainly reach rocketry before then.

 

[killercane]

All is well. i will resend the save. i am showing my team the plan today and we will see there reply. I think we will work on combustion as you suggested to help get tanks sooner. I know how these things go with Dave McW...tanks will be needed and we wont kill him without a difficult fight.

 

[killercane]

Dear Piffle Allies,
Aka Killercane

We're happy to agree to not spy on you, as requested, as long as you agree not to spy on us either.

We, of course, want to remain on good terms with you so that we can both benefit from trading techs. Consider it done.

We’d like to have Democracy as soon as you can discover it.
We’ll be sending along Industrialism when we discover it – and if you could keep us in the loop on what you’re studying next, we’d appreciate it. Thanks!

All the best,
General_W
Servant of The Leader
Epsilon Team!


Quote:
Originally Posted by killercane
There was a proposal to send you Democracy in exchange for Electricity. The only hold up is the presence of spies in this world of ours, and as a caveat we would ask that no spies enter our lands as that will be viewed as an unfriendly act.

Please bear with us as there is not much activity on the forum. If you would like to go ahead with that deal just let us know when you need Democracy!

 

[killercane]

Dear Piffletarians,

Considering the extremely short-lived nature of our past tech alliance, you must understand that our trust and faith in you is a little lacking at present, and so we are not inclined to enter into any military adventures with you at this time. However, if you would be willing to share your technological discoveries with us, this would certainly help to lay down some foundations of trust, and we could begin to consider your plans for a military alliance. Sharing your technologies would help to rebuild the trusting and cooperative relationship that has so far been lacking in our dealings with you, and which is essential if we are to align forces in a military campaign. If we cannot trust you, we cannot have the kind of relationship which is very necessary for any sort of military alliance, and so we cannot agree to your plan.

We hope you understand our position,
Team Innovia

 

[killercane]

What the heck are they even talking about?

 

[pindicator]

This is them thinking about 1 of 2 things: Either they think we are not entirely on board and working as a double-agent for Epsilon OR they are thinking past Epsilon and realizing we will be their main rival (should the military plan succeed). It sounds more like it's the first one, that they suspect a trap.

I wouldn't give them anything and I'd send a strong response. Tell them that if they do not want our help then they do not have to have it. Tell them that we do not entirely trust them or Aloha, since they were only recently our enemies, but we realize the necessity of the situation enough to see Epsilon will run away with this game unless something is done. Or they can wait to be the next one Epsilon rolls over while we look on. That we have no problems finishing this game in second place if they do not want to go for first.

Trusting and cooperative relationship -- when did we ever have that? They have been coy and scattered in their dealings with us from the start. Somebody over there doesn't trust us, and rightfully so, but it's probably the same somebody(s) that have nixed every trade deal with us from the start of this game.

Anyway, that's my $0.02

 

[Conroe]

They don't want to "enter into any military adventures" with us?!?!?!? Our reply should be to inform these knuckleheads that it was their idea! Maybe forward them a copy of the chat log that Whomp had with them.

 

[killercane]

Well no we dont understand your position. What do you mean short lived tech alliance?

 

[killercane]

I am in a bad spot with that then. We have a long standing tech deals with them. How can we work this out that we can keep this going. They are not in bed with Epsilon in fact they would rather revert to AI then keep this useless attempt going.

Honestly I dont blame them. Epsilon is so far ahead becasue of one reason....You guys let them go and helped them. Its difficult for us to work with you guys becasue of your past actions towards us. BUT its the only option on the table that makes any sense.

I still see us working together BUT know this we can not produce any quantity of nukes with any speed due to your war with us. We are broken due to whips and missing key infrastructure builds. As of now to produce one nuke seems like a fantasy BUT we will try and repair what we can and hope to reach that point where we can crank them out. We have very few forests left to cut.

So now that Innovia is out of the question...whats the new plan?

 

[killercane]

The only reason we worked with Epsilon is they are the only ones who would trade with us. This is a long standing problem, with dissension amongst us other three. We are open to proposals.

If you dont want to do the Rocketry thing we can just trade artillery and go our separate ways. I think this is a mistake but Innovia has always been weird towards us for who knows what reason. Tech parity and fair division of land is IMO the best option for both Aloha and Innovia, I have relayed my best ideas to the both of you, so that is all I can do.

If you guys have such good relations with them, maybe you can explain why it took them so long to reply and what their problem is? I mean, if someone came to me with the offer of 20K free beakers in tech, essentially free or cheap cities, and a military alliance vs. the #1 threat, its somewhat of a no brainer.

 

[killercane]

I know and thats why we want to work with you. In addition, we were working on a trade with you guys a week or two prior to your attack. I will talk to them and see whats up with them.

Regardless. I hope our non aggression pact stays. I think its in both our interest not to be distracted by another war except with Epsilon. Thats what got us here now.

So again..whats the plan now that Innovia is not on board.

 

[killercane]

So Im just bsing for time here. What do we do, when do we do it, and who do we do it to?

Attack Innovia, Aloha, or settle in for a space race that we will surely lose? I am sure that Epsilon is pre researching techs, their gold must go somewhere. However, overall I dont think they are that far ahead of us gnp wise (vanilla demo screen doesnt show specialist beakers), as long as we have representation and specialists. However they now have some 700+ production vs. our 125.

 

[Conroe]

In addition, we were working on a trade with you guys a week or two prior to your attack. I will talk to them and see whats up with them.

We offered Aloha our only source of wine for their spare dyes. They said no. We declared shortly thereafter ...

However they now have some 700+ production vs. our 125.

I don't see how Epsilon can lose the game with numbers like those. Our production is a fifth of theirs? If we build Manhattan, they might end up nuking us!

As you said in one of your messages ... second place beats last place ...