Department of Stranger Affairs
- Thread starter Bede
- Start date
Sorry for the late posting. I've been trying to get caught up on some of this. I will not be able to make a Weekend AM session. That is family time for me. But, you really shouldn't need me there anyway.
Yes, we have 7 cities. But 3 of them are sitting at size 1 because they have recently been founded. They are no help for the time being. TC had its growth capped off while we chased the GS for Philo. It is now growing and is a substantial reason why our GNP is where it is. Brilliant has been mercilessly whipped to get what infrastructure it has. It has now taken over the GS duties from TC. That leaves just Hamburger and Balderdash as our only 2 productive cities.
That is cities, how about buildings? We've got one Barracks -- one. We've got two Librarys. Unfortunately, our Beaucracy powered capital isn't one of them. Big no-no. But, we do have 3 Forges and 5 Granaries. And Workers? Until a couple of turns ago, we had only 4 Workers. We're up to 6 now, but that isn't enough. We've got tons of unimproved land. Do you realize that we still have not finished the road to Brilliant?
Are we really ready for mobilization with our lack of infrastructure? Realistically, we can continue to build troops in Hamburger. But I think the other 6 cities need to stay focused on infrastructure.
And the silver & horse city would have been great about 20 turns ago. But do we really need a fourth size 1 city? Because we will have to drop what we are doing somewhere to equip the Settler. And don't forget about the barb city of Zapotec that is sitting in the middle of our empire.
Don't have turncounts because I was thinking of putting us into Pacifism for a while. If we are going to be building massive amounts of troops, though, we may need to rethink that idea. Maybe switch to Theocracy, instead (which is what Epsilon did).
The problem with starting war preparations yesterday, is that we only started expansion and infrastructure the day before yesterday.
Yes, we have 7 cities. But 3 of them are sitting at size 1 because they have recently been founded. They are no help for the time being. TC had its growth capped off while we chased the GS for Philo. It is now growing and is a substantial reason why our GNP is where it is. Brilliant has been mercilessly whipped to get what infrastructure it has. It has now taken over the GS duties from TC. That leaves just Hamburger and Balderdash as our only 2 productive cities.
That is cities, how about buildings? We've got one Barracks -- one. We've got two Librarys. Unfortunately, our Beaucracy powered capital isn't one of them. Big no-no. But, we do have 3 Forges and 5 Granaries. And Workers? Until a couple of turns ago, we had only 4 Workers. We're up to 6 now, but that isn't enough. We've got tons of unimproved land. Do you realize that we still have not finished the road to Brilliant?
Are we really ready for mobilization with our lack of infrastructure? Realistically, we can continue to build troops in Hamburger. But I think the other 6 cities need to stay focused on infrastructure.
And the silver & horse city would have been great about 20 turns ago. But do we really need a fourth size 1 city? Because we will have to drop what we are doing somewhere to equip the Settler. And don't forget about the barb city of Zapotec that is sitting in the middle of our empire.
Actually, both are in the plans. Our next great person will be a GS out of Brilliant. He will most likely be offering Astronomy. IIRC we'll need 2, though, to lightbulb all of it. After the GS, a GM should be popping out at Balderdash.
Don't have turncounts because I was thinking of putting us into Pacifism for a while. If we are going to be building massive amounts of troops, though, we may need to rethink that idea. Maybe switch to Theocracy, instead (which is what Epsilon did).
killercane
Deity
Chat- Monday 7 PM PST-10 PM EST (GMT -5). Please list here what we can discuss. Maybe we set one of these up with Innovia too?
killercane
Deity
Well we can actually calculate all of this. GS offers most of Astro, it would be a short research after he is used, but of course better to use two. Maybe we work w/ Epsilon on this. In other words, we both donate a GS to the cause.
We need to figure out- how many turns to Lib/Mil Trad, current production rates of Balderdash and Hamburger and Treacle (w/ screens next turn maybe), if we can get an engineer for Rep Parts in time to make Rifling a possibility before, upgrade costs for galleys-galleons and chariots-cavs.
We dont need a rax for shipbuilding so we can do that now.
And I am thinking of this: We build many cats, send them against Aloha coastal city, even with -50% sea attack bonus I think we still get full collateral damage against their troops (rax would be nice but maybe not needed?). We then move into the city, and move cavs 2 tiles from their capital. A quick taking of their capital next turn if they dont have troops within a 2 tile radius and the war is effectively won.
Of course if we run pacifism we might get an extra GP, we can then decide if it will be better to run Theo for upgraded cats/cavs.
killercane
Deity
Reminder on chat tonight w/ Epsilon at 10 EST.
Topics of conversation
War
Getting Astronomy and gunpowder for our cavs.
What else?
Topics of conversation
War
Getting Astronomy and gunpowder for our cavs.
What else?
Well .... if you could figure out a way to work it into the conversation .... it would be nice if they just gave us their map. With the circumnav bonus, we would be in a better position to support them 
in their war efforts. Think they'd buy it?
in their war efforts. Think they'd buy it?
killercane
Deity
Proposed from Epsilon:
Piffle Strategic Meeting Agenda:
Here's what I propose we set as an agenda for our upcoming meeting I think it will be helpful to have an agenda to follow hope this is ok?
Agenda:
I. The Alliance Aims and Duration (5-10 mins)
What are we trying to achieve, and when do we turn on each other for the win?
II. Starting a War (10-15 mins)
Who are we fighting, and when do we start?
III. Fighting the War (30-35 mins)
How will we ensure and manage level of fairness and cooperation in the war?
IV. Brotherhood (15-20 mins)
What kind of agreements do we want on sharing each other's technology, sharing resources, trading maps, and other misc?
Hopefully this gets us done in somewhere near an hour and a half.
thoughts?
Piffle Strategic Meeting Agenda:
Here's what I propose we set as an agenda for our upcoming meeting I think it will be helpful to have an agenda to follow hope this is ok?
Agenda:
I. The Alliance Aims and Duration (5-10 mins)
What are we trying to achieve, and when do we turn on each other for the win?
II. Starting a War (10-15 mins)
Who are we fighting, and when do we start?
III. Fighting the War (30-35 mins)
How will we ensure and manage level of fairness and cooperation in the war?
IV. Brotherhood (15-20 mins)
What kind of agreements do we want on sharing each other's technology, sharing resources, trading maps, and other misc?
Hopefully this gets us done in somewhere near an hour and a half.
thoughts?
now.
...
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I would agree since they are looking for the circum-nav bonus. Their dyes are ridiculously priced and the local Piffle-Mart couldn't stock them.
Speaking of Aloha ... here is a screenshot that I forgot to post yesterday.
There Scout is still heading for our territory. Don't know if we care, or if there is even anything that we can do about ...
As for the trades, I would be very opposed to paying them anything ... It would be nice, though, to work out a Philo/Feud deal with them. But, Philo is more expensive and they have no cash.
There Scout is still heading for our territory. Don't know if we care, or if there is even anything that we can do about ...
As for the trades, I would be very opposed to paying them anything ... It would be nice, though, to work out a Philo/Feud deal with them. But, Philo is more expensive and they have no cash.
pindicator
Emperor
We could let them make up the difference later, as a way to lure them into thinking we like having them as a neighbor...
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
who else has fued?
killercane
Deity
Dear Piffle Allies,
We have produced a first-draft of a Grand Alliance treaty for out two peoples, based on our best understanding of the team chat.
We very much view this as a work-in-progress, and look forward to hearing your changes and improvements to this.
Piffle-Epsilon Grand Alliance Treaty
Article 1: Alliance
It is hereby agreed that Piffle and Epsilon shall be allied until they are the only 2 remaining teams in the world.
Until the last opposing team is eliminated, Piffle and Epsilon will cooperate for mutual advancement, defense, and forgo hostile actions of any sort toward the alliance.
This alliance can be dissolved prior to the elimination of the last team only by mutual agreement of both parties.
Article 2: Technology
Both Epsilon and Piffle agree to make no trades with the other teams unless they have express permission from their ally
Piffle agrees to allow Epsilon to sell a few non-key techs to Loco for gold, to accelerate Epsilons research Epsilon will notify Piffle about the details of each of these sales.
Piffle and Epsilon agree to coordinate their research to reach Cavalry and Astronomy as soon as possible and then to continue to work together after that for mutual benefit, with a focus on getting Rifling.
To better coordinate, both teams agree to follow this rough schedule which can be modified at anytime by joint agreement of the teams.
Note: All beaker amounts in this chart are based on actual in-game beakers (approx 1.4x base beakers) and assumes an average research rate of 200bpt.
This plan is crafted to get both teams Cavalry and Astronomy as soon as possible. However, we would like to suggest that maybe Astronomy should be considered for the free tech from Liberalism (over Military Tradition) for 4 reasons... a) they are both the same beaker cost, b) Getting MT early may telegraph our war intentions, c) getting Astronomy first is logistically preferable to allow construction of invasion fleets in advance, d) Military Tradition is no good for pre-building without both gunpowder and horseback riding.
We will leave that decision to you. We're fine either way.
Article 3: War
Epsilon will attack and hold the lands of Loco, while Piffle attacks and holds the lands of Aloha.
Recognizing that while both Loco and Aloha are about equal on the bottom rung of the power graph, Loco is an easier target due to some technological backwardness, Epsilon will gift the knowledge of Music and Feudalism to Piffle without condition to help make up the imbalance.
If Innovia moves to defend either Loco or Aloha by declaring war on either ally, then the Alliance will shift aid to the beleaguered ally.
For Example, If Innovia were to declare war on Piffle, then Epsilon agrees to gift, say, at least 1 cavalry unit every 5 turns to Piffle until peace is made with Innovia, until Aloha is destroyed, or until Piffle notifies Epsilon that they no longer need support. This deal would work both ways.
When the time comes to attack and destroy Innovia, both teams agree to a fair division of Innovias land and cities. The definition of fair will be mutually agreed upon when the time comes, but fair cannot mean less than 45% of Innovian Cities or Population for either ally unless agreed to by both parties based on other strategic considerations that may arise.
Article 4: Misc
Finally, it is agreed that Epsilon and Piffle will favor each other in all resource trade deals and seek opportunities to advance both empires via trade.
Both empires agree to do their best to keep this Alliance secret until at least the beginning of the war, and even past that if possible recognizing that keeping Innovia in the dark as long as possible is advantageous to all.
We hope this matches your expectations about our Alliance! As I said, were eager to hear what you think and make any changes or additions you find necessary.
To the Grand Alliance!
- Foreign Minister General_W
Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team!
We have produced a first-draft of a Grand Alliance treaty for out two peoples, based on our best understanding of the team chat.
We very much view this as a work-in-progress, and look forward to hearing your changes and improvements to this.
Piffle-Epsilon Grand Alliance Treaty
Article 1: Alliance
It is hereby agreed that Piffle and Epsilon shall be allied until they are the only 2 remaining teams in the world.
Until the last opposing team is eliminated, Piffle and Epsilon will cooperate for mutual advancement, defense, and forgo hostile actions of any sort toward the alliance.
This alliance can be dissolved prior to the elimination of the last team only by mutual agreement of both parties.
Article 2: Technology
Both Epsilon and Piffle agree to make no trades with the other teams unless they have express permission from their ally
Piffle agrees to allow Epsilon to sell a few non-key techs to Loco for gold, to accelerate Epsilons research Epsilon will notify Piffle about the details of each of these sales.
Piffle and Epsilon agree to coordinate their research to reach Cavalry and Astronomy as soon as possible and then to continue to work together after that for mutual benefit, with a focus on getting Rifling.
To better coordinate, both teams agree to follow this rough schedule which can be modified at anytime by joint agreement of the teams.
Note: All beaker amounts in this chart are based on actual in-game beakers (approx 1.4x base beakers) and assumes an average research rate of 200bpt.
This plan is crafted to get both teams Cavalry and Astronomy as soon as possible. However, we would like to suggest that maybe Astronomy should be considered for the free tech from Liberalism (over Military Tradition) for 4 reasons... a) they are both the same beaker cost, b) Getting MT early may telegraph our war intentions, c) getting Astronomy first is logistically preferable to allow construction of invasion fleets in advance, d) Military Tradition is no good for pre-building without both gunpowder and horseback riding.
We will leave that decision to you. We're fine either way.
Article 3: War
Epsilon will attack and hold the lands of Loco, while Piffle attacks and holds the lands of Aloha.
Recognizing that while both Loco and Aloha are about equal on the bottom rung of the power graph, Loco is an easier target due to some technological backwardness, Epsilon will gift the knowledge of Music and Feudalism to Piffle without condition to help make up the imbalance.
If Innovia moves to defend either Loco or Aloha by declaring war on either ally, then the Alliance will shift aid to the beleaguered ally.
For Example, If Innovia were to declare war on Piffle, then Epsilon agrees to gift, say, at least 1 cavalry unit every 5 turns to Piffle until peace is made with Innovia, until Aloha is destroyed, or until Piffle notifies Epsilon that they no longer need support. This deal would work both ways.
When the time comes to attack and destroy Innovia, both teams agree to a fair division of Innovias land and cities. The definition of fair will be mutually agreed upon when the time comes, but fair cannot mean less than 45% of Innovian Cities or Population for either ally unless agreed to by both parties based on other strategic considerations that may arise.
Article 4: Misc
Finally, it is agreed that Epsilon and Piffle will favor each other in all resource trade deals and seek opportunities to advance both empires via trade.
Both empires agree to do their best to keep this Alliance secret until at least the beginning of the war, and even past that if possible recognizing that keeping Innovia in the dark as long as possible is advantageous to all.
We hope this matches your expectations about our Alliance! As I said, were eager to hear what you think and make any changes or additions you find necessary.
To the Grand Alliance!
- Foreign Minister General_W
Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team!
killercane
Deity
killercane
Deity
This is a tricky bit. Allying w/ Epsilon for the rest of the game until the others are gone ensures we will be in the top two. How do we beat Epsilon to the SS or kill them? That is the long term question.
In either, workers are needed and population is needed. Science is also right up there. For workers/pop, killing Aloha asap is absolutely necessary. We have to get a head start on Epsilon to catch up with their population lead. Consolidating Aloha asap while keeping Innovia at bay is IMO the only choice here.
I would argue that it seems that we are not gearing for war however. Libraries, forges, and granaries are being built. With the tech deal w/ Epsilon, I would argue that we do not need the library as necessarily as we did earlier as our path is set. We can build it in 40 turns just as well as we can now but for right now we need troops. It is hard to argue against forges and granaries but where are our troops coming from?
We could also just keep building, and improving our home pop, but to what end? After Epsilon is done with Loco they may want a piece of Aloha action or start on Innovia while we are doing Loco. If they are able to destroy Innovia somehow (which I dont know if they could after fighting the first war), then they are up on our land 3:2 and we have no chance.
In either, workers are needed and population is needed. Science is also right up there. For workers/pop, killing Aloha asap is absolutely necessary. We have to get a head start on Epsilon to catch up with their population lead. Consolidating Aloha asap while keeping Innovia at bay is IMO the only choice here.
I would argue that it seems that we are not gearing for war however. Libraries, forges, and granaries are being built. With the tech deal w/ Epsilon, I would argue that we do not need the library as necessarily as we did earlier as our path is set. We can build it in 40 turns just as well as we can now but for right now we need troops. It is hard to argue against forges and granaries but where are our troops coming from?
We could also just keep building, and improving our home pop, but to what end? After Epsilon is done with Loco they may want a piece of Aloha action or start on Innovia while we are doing Loco. If they are able to destroy Innovia somehow (which I dont know if they could after fighting the first war), then they are up on our land 3:2 and we have no chance.
killercane
Deity
I thought maybe also that we should take Mil Trad over Astro, and make Epsilon spend a scientist on Astro with us, as Epsilon will use the scientist on an academy or save it to highlight Electricity or something down the line
