Design: Buildings

[QES]

Ya, that seems pretty reasonable if they have some weakness of course...

This was on another thread but id thought id mention it since were discussing it here.

What about the "Compact Trait" Virtually the opposite of the sprawling trait, instead of 3 rings around the city, your only granted 1. Thats 8 squares in addition to your city square. The trait would give 1 free specialist per 3 population rounding up. Therefore a full city (all 8 squares) would have a population of 11 (not including civics). IF "free specialists" cost food to support because of population size, then the Compact Trait could also have a +1 Food per specialist (thusly halving the cost of their existance).

Then if you look at these buildings without the culture negatives, they dont seem broken considering that each city is being deprived of 12 squares.
Maybe even put them back at 4 food each?
-Qes

 

[Silverkiss]

Yea, whit only 1 ring 4 food is reasonable. But, I dont know if Free Specialists cost food... But free specialists are not counted towards city population. So if your city is population 8 and it has 3 free specialists, its still 8 pop. Thats better anyway, because its less food for the next pop lvl.

Aye, 2 good ideas that work well togheter (how do you freaking write this word ??). Hope the Team sees it o_0.

 

[QES]

Yea, whit only 1 ring 4 food is reasonable. But, I dont know if Free Specialists cost food... But free specialists are not counted towards city population. So if your city is population 8 and it has 3 free specialists, its still 8 pop. Thats better anyway, because its less food for the next pop lvl.

Aye, 2 good ideas that work well togheter (how do you freaking write this word ??). Hope the Team sees it o_0.

Ya, it seems like a reasonable mix of ideas. Less space, more innward production. More cities to compensate - then more upkeep and if Khazad then a "vault" problem. I like it, very different play style. Thing is, what about the culture...would it be tiny? Like little city states? Or normal, but production is limited to the first ring of squares? Visually it'd look cooler if the cities were seperate. But i suspect players might try to use up every inch of land anyway, and when it comes to resources, playres want territory so they can harvest (even if not useable by the city itself)

Still, i like it..hopefully someone with say will see it.
-Qes

 

[QES]

Keeping with the Idea of that the Belseraphs are "INSANE" (awesome).
I was wondering if they would/could be provided with either one or both of the following ideas.

They could build a building, (or have access to a UNIT that could build the building - in a sacrificial sort of way.) that could draw the attention of freaks, monsters, and barbarians.

I see this unit, maybe the "Strange connoisseur" that could go into enemy cities and plant a building called the "Monster Magnet" This building would randomly incourage the spawning of monsters within the cities radious (these monsters could be the ones that will likely be included for a later phase of the project, but for now it might just spawn animals, orcs, and other 'normal' barbarians.) In this the belseraph could use it on themselves (their not sane anyway) to boost the xp of their own units (they'd know what was coming) or they could disrupt the flow of the enemy by forcing them to deal with EVEN MORE barbarians.

I was just thinking that Perpentach might like monster magnet(s)....
-Qes

P.S. yes....yes it was on purpose, but i still like the idea.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Aye, 2 good ideas that work well togheter (how do you freaking write this word ??). Hope the Team sees it o_0.

think of it as three small words: to-get-her

 

[Sureshot]

to gather to get her together
we rather reset her forever

lol
|
/\

sorry, breaking down words makes me strange

 

[QES]

to gather to get her together
we rather reset her forever

lol
|
/\

sorry, breaking down words makes me strange

I disagree, i think it is you being strange that makes you brake down words.
.
-Qes

 

[Sureshot]

shhh... it has to be nikis fault

 

[QES]

shhh... it has to be nikis fault

Oh Right, right. Well, Darn you Nikis!

Yes.... how dare you, cavort..and such.

Hoolganism.....n....goings on...

ZZZZzzzzzz....
-Qes

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I look away for a few hours, and my nefarious influence has caused cavorting hooliganism?? I shall rectify the situation with an on-topic post about my idea du juor... This may be too complicated for little gain, but I'll throw it out anyway.

Battles are much more interesting than fighting, of course. On some games with friendly rulers, many turns could go by in the middle of the game, after settling before anything "interesting" happens. Part of this is the animation, and trying out the great units. But I wondered if there was some way to impart a bit of suspense to building? Without of course diminishing the strategic choices.
What if buildings could occasionally be built better than normal? It might give more suspense than 'what will I build next?' I thought about having a 'great' and a 'masterful' version of ordinary buildings, say, 10% of the time your oblisk will be great and cost no gold, 5% it will give +4 culture rather than +3. But I realized that this would probably entail having 3x as many buildings in, or complicated coding changes, both of which would slow down playing/loading.
Instead, a small percentage of the time, say 10%, I building would be built with an "addition" which in reality would be a separate building in the city, but one unable to be otherwise constructed. Only one "addition" would be possible with each building built, and of course none with units. A message would pop up reading "Our citizens completed the Obelisk ahead of schedule! A _______ was added!" With the blank being one of a few buildings with small bonuses:
A fountian; +1 health
A statue; +1 culture
A guard station; +5% defense
A garden; +1 happy
A market stall; +1 commerce
A ? (arena?); +1 XP
Not too many, as most cities would only get two or three in the game (about one for every 10 buildings built.) These wouldn't even need art, really. Should it be possible to get two of the same? Is it possible to get two of any building in one city? Also, having engineer specialist or Super specialists would increase the chance of an addition.

The above list would only be for non-wonder buildings. Wonders could be as follows: 5% chance for the following when a wonder is built, but each wonder could have more than one at once. Suggested wonder additions:
Scenic Overlook: +1 Great Artist point
Altar: +1 Great prophet
Etc. (Can't think of names for others at the moment.)

Negative surprises occuring would also add to suspense, but you need to not do these or be careful to avoid screwing up someone's valid strategy. (No one should see: "Your training yard was canceled!") Maybe a one turn delay, no more than once per building, 5% of the time. Maybe poor contstruction leading to unhappy or unhealth for 5 turns. If so, have sage specialists decrease the chance.

 

[QES]

I look away for a few hours, and my nefarious influence has caused cavorting hooliganism?? I shall rectify the situation with an on-topic post about my idea du juor... This may be too complicated for little gain, but I'll throw it out anyway.

Battles are much more interesting than fighting, of course. On some games with friendly rulers, many turns could go by in the middle of the game, after settling before anything "interesting" happens. Part of this is the animation, and trying out the great units. But I wondered if there was some way to impart a bit of suspense to building? Without of course diminishing the strategic choices.
What if buildings could occasionally be built better than normal? It might give more suspense than 'what will I build next?' I thought about having a 'great' and a 'masterful' version of ordinary buildings, say, 10% of the time your oblisk will be great and cost no gold, 5% it will give +4 culture rather than +3. But I realized that this would probably entail having 3x as many buildings in, or complicated coding changes, both of which would slow down playing/loading.
Instead, a small percentage of the time, say 10%, I building would be built with an "addition" which in reality would be a separate building in the city, but one unable to be otherwise constructed. Only one "addition" would be possible with each building built, and of course none with units. A message would pop up reading "Our citizens completed the Obelisk ahead of schedule! A _______ was added!" With the blank being one of a few buildings with small bonuses:
A fountian; +1 health
A statue; +1 culture
A guard station; +5% defense
A garden; +1 happy
A market stall; +1 commerce
A ? (arena?); +1 XP
Not too many, as most cities would only get two or three in the game (about one for every 10 buildings built.) These wouldn't even need art, really. Should it be possible to get two of the same? Is it possible to get two of any building in one city? Also, having engineer specialist or Super specialists would increase the chance of an addition.

The above list would only be for non-wonder buildings. Wonders could be as follows: 5% chance for the following when a wonder is built, but each wonder could have more than one at once. Suggested wonder additions:
Scenic Overlook: +1 Great Artist point
Altar: +1 Great prophet
Etc. (Can't think of names for others at the moment.)

Negative surprises occuring would also add to suspense, but you need to not do these or be careful to avoid screwing up someone's valid strategy. (No one should see: "Your training yard was canceled!") Maybe a one turn delay, no more than once per building, 5% of the time. Maybe poor contstruction leading to unhappy or unhealth for 5 turns. If so, have sage specialists decrease the chance.

While i think that there is pleanty of suspence in building ("Build faster! I want to time its completion with my invasion...") i think these ideas are intriguing.

But on the mechanic, it seems like clutter. I like the idea of something more random and 'personal' about building things, like little minor random events. But im not sure adding buildings is the answer.
I LIKE the idea, but it just seems like there'd be "more stuff" in my citybuild profile. When honestly, a lot of buildings only provide a +1 bonus to something, and i have to INTEND to build that (or the govenor intends it), it strikes me as a bit over powered to have the free "little bit extra" building provide something near equivilant.

I'm with you 100% on the concept, but im not sure the execution should be in this fashion. How else might we add "personal" touches and suspence without it altering 'known' strategy? Is there something that could be invented? A whole new reason to build buildings? Think outside the box, i feel this is on the verge of something very cool, but it wont have the same context as ANY current building purposes/strategies..
-Qes

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I agree it'd be clutterly, but better than having to code alteranate buildings or SDK (whatever that is) changes to buildings on creation.

If those are too powerful, I dunno what would be useful, half a happy doesn't help anyone. It could be made more rare of course, but too rare and why bother.

 

[QES]

I agree it'd be clutterly, but better than having to code alteranate buildings or SDK (whatever that is) changes to buildings on creation.

If those are too powerful, I dunno what would be useful, half a happy doesn't help anyone. It could be made more rare of course, but too rare and why bother.

Bah, dont give up...something very cool is right here, i can feel it!

It has to be mechanical....it'll have to be mildly utilitarian (else no one will bother), or it'll have to be very random, but "nice" to get.

Like flavor that has the accidental nicity of being "useful" as well.
Think man!
-Qes

What about instead of a random biulding being built.......improvements were built? Something 'nice' and unbuildable in normal gameplay. It'd purely be the citizens (happier citizens means more likely) choice to build.

 

[QES]

I have something!

What about a series of improvements that are randomly "built" in city radii that meet certain criteria.

For example, if a city has been in a "we love the leader" state for some 10 turns, perhaps there is a chance of a random improvement being built out on a tile that's unused.

These improvements could have small independant little functions, not tied to economics or strategy directly.

Like "Leader's shrine" Would be an improvement that Units could go to - to get the "Loyalty" promotion option?

What im thinking here is that each race might have a small (large?) list of mini-wonders that are unproduceable in any possible way. But if different civs (depending) cities meet different requirements, they might be "gifted" with a free boon of a small un-powerful, but useful, improvement.

It would be very rare, and throughout a whole game, playing perfectly might only ever get you two of these little mini-wonders. And the function would never be terribly powerful. But it WOULD add immense flavor and even a bit of use.

Thoughts?
-Qes

 

[loki1232]

A couple of ideas:
1. Coastal fortess. Gives +50% defense against all amphibious attacks on the city. Also reduces effectiveness of naval bombardment (if implemented)
2. Observatory. Give +5% science, +25% trade route yeild.
3. Gallows. -50% maintenance, Decreases chance of losing city (culture flip, propoganda), -1 happy.
4. Slave market. +3 gold, +2 hammers. Increases chance of slave rebellion (Slave market destroyed, Large barb escaped slave unit outside of city.)

 

[c.fe]

I have something!
For example, if a city has been in a "we love the leader" state for some 10 turns, perhaps there is a chance of a random improvement being built out on a tile that's unused.
[...]
Thoughts?

I like the idea of making the "we love the leader" day a bit more interesting although I never had one for ten turns. A nice bonus for the perfectionist builders out there.
I just don't know, if I want these mini-wonders you are talking about that are very rare or some not-so-rare improvements like mentioned above.

 

[QES]

A couple of ideas:
1. Coastal fortess. Gives +50% defense against all amphibious attacks on the city. Also reduces effectiveness of naval bombardment (if implemented)
2. Observatory. Give +5% science, +25% trade route yeild.
3. Gallows. -50% maintenance, Decreases chance of losing city (culture flip, propoganda), -1 happy.
4. Slave market. +3 gold, +2 hammers. Increases chance of slave rebellion (Slave market destroyed, Large barb escaped slave unit outside of city.)

YA! IF all of these are improvements? Something cute to look at on the screen.
Qes Likey.

5. Leader Shrine - Units in tile may get the "loyalty promotion"
6. Sacred Battlefield - 0 production in tile, +2 culture +2 happiness.
7. Lordly Mannor (only with aristocrasy) - +5% defense in tile, +1 free specialist.
8. Catacombs (organized religion only) - IF Evil +2 Experience for units, If Good + 1 Happy.
9. Tournament - +1 culture per 10% culture investment
10. Mcdonald's Farm - +2 food, Animal capture promotion given to units.


-Qes

 

[BeefontheBone]

AFAIK, tile improvements can only influence the tile yield, so the things you mentioned in your last post would all need to be buildings. The other problem with improvements is that they would preclude other improvements from being built without replacing the other one, unless an extra layer were added to tiles (an SDK change).

I like the idea of the random mini-buildings, though

 

[QES]

AFAIK, tile improvements can only influence the tile yield, so the things you mentioned in your last post would all need to be buildings. The other problem with improvements is that they would preclude other improvements from being built without replacing the other one, unless an extra layer were added to tiles (an SDK change).

I like the idea of the random mini-buildings, though

Harumph. Much of flavor isnt tile yeild based. It'd be great if that could be fudged with. But, as im wont to believe that means SDK alterations, I regret I admit i'd have to watch this sweet idea go by the wayside. Still little-free-flavorful-cute buildings in the landscape would be fantastic. But just adding to yeild seems, well, dull.

Hopefully someone who's smarter than i am will come up with a cool solution.
-Qes

 

[SchpailsMan]

Sentry towers do pretty much the trick. I don't know if they're implemented as improvements or a resource, but anyhow they have a non-yield based behaviour so I guess it would be possible to add unit commands that create pseudo-improvements like you suggest.

Then again, there's the same old question : how will you make the AI use all those new pseudo-improvements ?