Design: Buildings
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
I feel rarely motivated to build the temple upgrades because they often don't habe a great positive effect and I don't want to trade this the negative effect they give. As they can only be build in a few cities they should have a bit greater effects.
Just some comments about the different temples:
It would be nice if you would charge an invisible demon-meter with your sacrifices and if this reaches some threshold you get a powerful demon unit.
Just some comments about the different temples:
If I'm not going for a religious victory I wouldn't build this because I like many religions and the free command promotion isn't that great.Kael said:
This is certainly nice.Kael said:
I never tried the sacrifice for research thingy but I don't think that I would be too tempted to use it. Why should I waste my hard earned high level units?Kael said:
It would be nice if you would charge an invisible demon-meter with your sacrifices and if this reaches some threshold you get a powerful demon unit.
I alway thought trade routes would yield commerce. If that is the case the temple is quite pointless.Kael said:
This is nice. As you can't build too much of these temples I would even propose +40% culture.Kael said:
I really don't like this one. Less culture and trade for an increase of a chance.Kael said:
+50% defense seems nice but in the end it's not something I really crave for and it doesn't help against pillaging... The +10% production bonus is again a bit small. Why not make it 25% or even 40%. As I said, you can't build to much of these anyway.Kael said:
If you have a lot of gems this can be nice in a science city. But if you dont... Perhaps it could grant a few xp to units?Kael said:
If the sacrifice population effect gets added this will be quite strong. But at the moment the +1 Research thing ist quite weak.Kael said:
If I did not get to many animals I just have a bonus promotion for one singel unit type and a chance for a promotion that isn't alway beneficial. Perhaps it could have a 10% chance per turn to create an lunatic.Kael said:
Chalid
Black Dragon
@c.fe: From the Changelog for 0.14:
kael said:
Chalid
Black Dragon
Th interesting Effects will get mostly moved to other objects (buildings/civics)
Kael
Deity
Xuenay said:Aww. It was a nice flavor mechanic.
It was a good concept, but it was a medicore play value. The more we cut the parts of the mod that we don't love, the more the parts that we do love will shine through.
Some parts are being readjusted to make them work better for players and the AI. Some are being cut entirely. I have no desire to have FfH be as "big" as possible. Its much more important that each aspect serve a valuable purpose.
Honestly its not such a big deal for all the folks that read these forums. If you these posts you probably know the mod inside and out and can deal with all of the various units/buildings/etc. And you probably avoid the objects that aren't worth it without really thinking about it. But new players wont know to do that. A lot of times its called "noob traps", game aspects that are avoided by experienced players and serve to differentiate between experienced and inexperienced players. Sometimes they are intentional (those familiar with magic the gathering may be aware that the "lucky charms" are intentional noob traps), but I try to avoid them whenever possible.
The other way of dealing with noob traps is to boost the offending object, make it so its just as viable as other options. We do this too, but you always have to ask if its really worth it go through the work or if the part is really needed. So we removed the shadowed vale, but now the triple chance of summoning treants is on the temple of leaves. Which seems perfect and makes the temple of leaves a better option. The enforcement offices double units fromt he recruit ability is no on the temple of the order. The fewer components we have, the more detailed we can be with them. There is a magic number with the amount of options that are available, you want a few differentiated options. When you have to many they all blur together.
But we may see a return of advanced temples. If we do I suspect it will be for a specific religion, not for all religions. It is a great concept and we may design a religion fromt he ground up based on being able to go 2 different ways.
the halls of granite were a huge factor in my capitol,
god king to the end of the game
+50% for capitol
+50% total from halls of granite with stone
+55% from dwarven smithy with 3 metals
+20% from machinists shop
+25% for buildings,
+10% for military units
+200% for buildings
+250% for wonders(with industrious trait)
+185% for units,
with a base production of around 32-35
0 0
built nearly every midgame wonder in under 10 turns...
i suppose the halls of granite wasn't "that" much of it, but it bought me at least one extra wonder worth of production...
god king to the end of the game
+50% for capitol
+50% total from halls of granite with stone
+55% from dwarven smithy with 3 metals
+20% from machinists shop
+25% for buildings,
+10% for military units
+200% for buildings
+250% for wonders(with industrious trait)
+185% for units,
with a base production of around 32-35
0 0
built nearly every midgame wonder in under 10 turns...
i suppose the halls of granite wasn't "that" much of it, but it bought me at least one extra wonder worth of production...
Maniac
Apolyton Sage
Just checking: are human/dwarf/elf/orc cages Balseraph only?
Corlindale
Emperor
Yes. The Balseraphs have a special passion for more...extravagant entertainment.
QES
Court Jester
Dwarves...as we all know. Like to live in mountains. They prefer mountains.
Unlike the Elves however, Mountains do not grow (unless there is a change to how the game works, and random mountain ranges can potentially appear). So for dwarves to be isolated to mountain/hill homes alone, is rare. Many dwarven cities are out in the desert, in the forest, or out at sea. Dwarves (as i know them) are not fans of boats.
How then to create an insentive for players, playing dwarves, to grab up all the mountainous (at the cost of delicious looking plains/forest/coastal) real estate?
Dwarves are Ingenuative. They build things. I suggest a series of buildings, soley for dwarven races. All of these would require the city being bulit near/on hills. Their Boarders will be smaller, but thier holds will be harder.
1. The first is for expansion. A building that would provide FOOD directly.
The Mushroom farm (something dank, but tasty) +4 Food -2 Culture.
2. The Second is for growth. A building that provides Food and Healthy.
Dwarven Brewery (Replaces Brewery) +4 Food +2 Healthy For Corn, Wheat, etc.
3. The Third is for Large Cities. A building deep in the earth.
Dwarven Sub-Keep +4 Food -2 Culture {Edit: Or -20% Culture to handle all those wonders being produced} +50% Defense.
Also A coulple other Dwarven Ideas for Buildings:
A) Dwarven (Orcish too?) Tunnel - Allows "airdrop" within 3-5 Squares. They come out of hidden tunnels connecting to the city. But to keep it secret, must return through the front gates.
B) Oafbreadhaus - Gives one "Oafbread" Luxury Resource. - A normal building, so in theory, a player could build many of them to use as trade with other nations. (Considering their small boarders, and lack of access to many goods).
C) Hill/Mountain Tower - Units in City are granted the same bonus sight radious as the watch towers found in abundance on the map.
D) Dwarven Alchemist - A VERY expensive National Wonder that would provide one Iron Strategic resource. (For the unfortunate player who finds themselves without iron and playing the dwarves.)
Unlike the Elves however, Mountains do not grow (unless there is a change to how the game works, and random mountain ranges can potentially appear). So for dwarves to be isolated to mountain/hill homes alone, is rare. Many dwarven cities are out in the desert, in the forest, or out at sea. Dwarves (as i know them) are not fans of boats.
How then to create an insentive for players, playing dwarves, to grab up all the mountainous (at the cost of delicious looking plains/forest/coastal) real estate?
Dwarves are Ingenuative. They build things. I suggest a series of buildings, soley for dwarven races. All of these would require the city being bulit near/on hills. Their Boarders will be smaller, but thier holds will be harder.
1. The first is for expansion. A building that would provide FOOD directly.
The Mushroom farm (something dank, but tasty) +4 Food -2 Culture.
2. The Second is for growth. A building that provides Food and Healthy.
Dwarven Brewery (Replaces Brewery) +4 Food +2 Healthy For Corn, Wheat, etc.
3. The Third is for Large Cities. A building deep in the earth.
Dwarven Sub-Keep +4 Food -2 Culture {Edit: Or -20% Culture to handle all those wonders being produced} +50% Defense.
Also A coulple other Dwarven Ideas for Buildings:
A) Dwarven (Orcish too?) Tunnel - Allows "airdrop" within 3-5 Squares. They come out of hidden tunnels connecting to the city. But to keep it secret, must return through the front gates.
B) Oafbreadhaus - Gives one "Oafbread" Luxury Resource. - A normal building, so in theory, a player could build many of them to use as trade with other nations. (Considering their small boarders, and lack of access to many goods).
C) Hill/Mountain Tower - Units in City are granted the same bonus sight radious as the watch towers found in abundance on the map.
D) Dwarven Alchemist - A VERY expensive National Wonder that would provide one Iron Strategic resource. (For the unfortunate player who finds themselves without iron and playing the dwarves.)
QES
Court Jester
evanb said:
Never built em.......my poor dwarves never survived long enough
. Good to know.
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Mushroom Farm, Dwarven Brewery and Dwarven Sub-Keep way too much overpowered, they provide +12 food, whit that you can hold 7 citizens (counting city tile) whidout getting any food from tiles.
You would only need to settle in a land full of Plains Hills and make a production combo (all civicis that have +production and all buildings) and you would be able to build nearly anything in the game in 1 turn. Even the later wonders/units/even rituals would be fast as hell.
You would only need to settle in a land full of Plains Hills and make a production combo (all civicis that have +production and all buildings) and you would be able to build nearly anything in the game in 1 turn. Even the later wonders/units/even rituals would be fast as hell.
QES
Court Jester
JuliusBloodmoon said:
Then adjust them, i was just throwing out numbers. Give them a larger negative Culture......with tiny cultures, you have to be careful about when you build those buildings, lest your city waste away (there was a mention that they could do that in some other thread).
Also, if they're on the boarder with someone, they're going to be pushing back a LOT less hard because of it. Give each building a -2 or -5% culture, that way it adds up. Little dwarven city states dotted around. Plus it would force them to keep to the hills, as these buildings would not be available unless near them.
The Low culture also counters the efficient wonder production (wonders = culture)
-Qes
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Well, I dont think its hard to have a great culture. In my games, I usually have +20 culture/turn on my cities, whidout Cultural trait or any % in the Culture Slider. Maybe give then something like -30% and -1 culture, so their culture is heavily diminished and can still have their cities destroyed, as they have -1.
QES
Court Jester
JuliusBloodmoon said:
Exactly, its easy to have culture. I'm saying that for the dwarves it could be more difficult, in exchange for getting those nice little buildings that provide food. The idea here is that dwarven cities may only get one or two rings of tiles around their squares, much less "pushing out" into open territory and engulfing other nations.
Keeping the culture painfully small would increase the need for more dwarven cities, and if your the Khazad, theres a price to pay with that, if your the other dwarves, then not so much. But then if your the other dwarves, you need tiles more. ITs a give/take thing.
The minus to culture to be large enough to prevent, or at least heavily stifle growth, maybe a -25% culture per building. Thats -75% if you have a Keep. The benefits are that your getting 12 food and some other bonuses...Your going to have (more than likely) a lot of specialists (good for dwarves) and a lot of production, with sizable cities....but not a lot of land territory. This can/will keep dwarves to the hills and mountains.
Cool no?
-Qes
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Ya, but I still think that the bonus should be only +3 or even +2 food. You see, the Calabim, who are specialized in having huge cityes for their vampires to feast on, only have a building that gives +2 food...
QES
Court Jester
JuliusBloodmoon said:
Maybe Mushroom farm 4 food
Brewery 2 food 2 gold
Keep 2 Food 2 Hammers (only talking incomes here)
Thats worse than 3 food each, but makes up for it elsewhere.
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Ya, that seems pretty reasonable if they have some weakness of course...
