Design: Buildings

[loki1232]

Okay, here's the FoG way of doing the temple upgrades:
Each nation may onyl have one of these wonders at once, and if they switch relgion the wonders are lost.

Each of the wonders allows one of these many temple upgrades in each city. Each upgrade has a different flavor and purpose.

Demon's altar: Any level 5 or higher unit can be upgraded to Demon. Loses all promotions and levels. 20% chance demon created will be a barb. Each time a unit is "upgraded" like this you get 50% of its sheilds in science and -1 happiness for 6 turns (number based on game length, same as sacrificing for production). Demons built in city (or upgraded) gain +2 XP. -1 health, -2 happiness. Gives +3 demon GP points.

Otherworldly Scrolls: +5 science. Demons built in city give +25 science. -25% demon build time. -10% gold. Can build a new unit: Exploring Demon. 8 strength, demon type, high movement.

Forbidden Library: -20% culture, +10% science. -2 happiness. Trade routes yeild science instead of gold. +1 trade route, +25% trade route yeild. Can onyl trade with AV cities.

Demon Runes: +100% demon summoner production. Demon summoners built in city get combat I, +2 XP. Each demon summoner built gives -2 happiness for 6 turns. -10% science.

 

[loki1232]

Walls comes pretty early, at masonry, which only takes Militia. So I don't know if we can have a building that is much earlier. You thinking about it as a building without a tech requirement?

Yeah, and maybe go obsolete at construction. An early thing that you build if you need help against barbs.

 

[Kael]

Yeah, and maybe go obsolete at construction. An early thing that you build if you need help against barbs.

Oh, I like the obsolete idea. I didn't like another building stacking in but you handled it perfectly, I'll add it.

 

[Lunargent]

I think a palisade would be more usefull as something that a worker could build. Say you want to defend a resource from early barbarian raids- build a palisade and plop a warrior in it- good for if you don't have any stratagic forested hills.

 

[Kael]

Okay, here's the FoG way of doing the temple upgrades:
Each nation may onyl have one of these wonders at once, and if they switch relgion the wonders are lost.

Each of the wonders allows one of these many temple upgrades in each city. Each upgrade has a different flavor and purpose.

Demon's altar: Any level 5 or higher unit can be upgraded to Demon. Loses all promotions and levels. 20% chance demon created will be a barb. Each time a unit is "upgraded" like this you get 50% of its sheilds in science and -1 happiness for 6 turns (number based on game length, same as sacrificing for production). Demons built in city (or upgraded) gain +2 XP. -1 health, -2 happiness. Gives +3 demon GP points.

Otherworldly Scrolls: +5 science. Demons built in city give +25 science. -25% demon build time. -10% gold. Can build a new unit: Exploring Demon. 8 strength, demon type, high movement.

Forbidden Library: -20% culture, +10% science. -2 happiness. Trade routes yeild science instead of gold. +1 trade route, +25% trade route yeild. Can onyl trade with AV cities.

Demon Runes: +100% demon summoner production. Demon summoners built in city get combat I, +2 XP. Each demon summoner built gives -2 happiness for 6 turns. -10% science.

The problem with the FoG way is you have to own the holy city to do it. And therefor if you don't own the holy city you dont have access to any of these buildings and it doesnt allow you the opportunity to have 2 ashen veil civs in the game, one of which has gone the research path and hte other which has gone with the bonus unit.

 

[loki1232]

The problem with the FoG way is you have to own the holy city to do it. And therefor if you don't own the holy city you dont have access to any of these buildings and it doesnt allow you the opportunity to have 2 ashen veil civs in the game, one of which has gone the research path and hte other which has gone with the bonus unit.

Fine then, we'll use Sevo's modified mod. What does mod stand for anyways?

It will be like that, except that you dont' need the holy city. just take any great prophet, or the signature GP of the religion (veil = scientist) and build it in any city. The wonder does nothing on its own, but allows the other buildings to be built. The ai would have a simple modification that made it less likely to build a new wonder each time a temple upgrade was built. Or, the original wonder could simply give one of each temple upgrade for free in you cities, so that the ai wouldn't be hurt be this.
Course, this requires the ai knowing to use the GP's this way.

 

[loki1232]

Okay, OO time: (i love the evil religions)

Modified FoG system.

1. Voices of the Insane
-25% food kept after growth
+50% production for special units and buildings
Drowns produced with +3 XP
Reduced population sacrifice cost for drown
-1 happiness

2. Twisted Laboratory
+2 science from each carnival cage
+1 science per population point
-2 happiness
+1 health
Allows 2 scientists

3. Overseer's Residence
Doubles effects of slaves sacrificed for production
Slaves sacrificed give +20 science
Population sacrificed for production gives double effects
Population sacrificed for production gives +20 science per point sacrificed
-10% gold, culture

4. Theater of Dreams
Each demon built gives +50% of their cost as culture
Culture is used instead of defensive bonuses
Water spaces give +3 culture, +1 shield
-1 happiness per 10% budget towards culture
-10% shields

 

[loki1232]

Order:

1. Inquisitorial Halls
Stops spread of non-state religion
-3 happiness per non-state religion
Inquisiors trained +100%, +2XP
+1 happiness

2. Fortress of the Lights
+25% city defense
+25% military production
+2XP
-25% trade route yeild
-1 trade route
+3 great commander points

3. Enforcement Offices
-50% war weariness
-50% maintenance
-1 happiness per 1 maintenance
-1 maintenance per military unti in city

4. Military School
-25% great person birth rate
-20% culture
All specialists give +2 great commander points
Units built in city get +3XP
Doubled effects of great commanders born in city

Runes next i think, but not until tomorrow.

 

[Lunargent]

I'll give Leaves a go:

1. Roots of the World Tree.
Casts Entangle on all enemy units within its city's zone of influence.
Forests yeild extra food and production
+10% culture
-25%trade route yeild
-1trade route.
Can only trade with Fellowship cities.

2.The Golden Wood
+25% culture
+1 trade routes
+25% trade route yeild
+1 health per 10 culture rate
+1 great artist
+1 maintenance per unhealthiness point
+25% war weariness

3. The Shadowed Vale
Units created here have a +20% flanking chance, +1 first strike chance.
+25% defense against all units as a terrain modifier. (seige cannot lower like for a hill)
City is hidden terrain.
-2 trade routes.
-25% culture.

4. The Silver Wood
+2 beakers+25% Science
+1 trade route
+2 great sage
Forests give -1 food.
-20% culture

 

[Kael]

Fine then, we'll use Sevo's modified mod. What does mod stand for anyways?

It will be like that, except that you dont' need the holy city. just take any great prophet, or the signature GP of the religion (veil = scientist) and build it in any city. The wonder does nothing on its own, but allows the other buildings to be built. The ai would have a simple modification that made it less likely to build a new wonder each time a temple upgrade was built. Or, the original wonder could simply give one of each temple upgrade for free in you cities, so that the ai wouldn't be hurt be this.
Course, this requires the ai knowing to use the GP's this way.

I could have the 1st building as a national wonder that is only buildable in the countries capital (requires the palace to build). And have it block the other temple upgrades (of the same religion) when it is built.

The reason its so much easier to force it in the capital only is that I am going to have to check everytime a build list is presented to the player to see if they are allowed to make each temple upgrade. If I force the first building in the capital then they will all have to check the capital, if they first building is allowed in any city I will have to look through all the players cities for one each time.

 

[Lunargent]

Could it also be buildable in the cities with the forbidden and/or winter palaces?

 

[Kael]

Could it also be buildable in the cities with the forbidden and/or winter palaces?

No, then I would need to search all the cities again to see where the forbidden and winter palaces are. The nice thing about the capital is I can call it directly (i dont need to search through all fo the cities looking for the capital).

So the player with the Ashen Veil as their state religion can build one of the ashen veil upgraded temples in his capital. It will destroy his normal ashen veil temple and keep it (and the other ashen veil upgrades) from being able to be built. Once the upgraded temple is built in his capital he will be able to build that upgraded temple (and only that one) in all of his cities.

 

[loki1232]

No, then I would need to search all the cities again to see where the forbidden and winter palaces are. The nice thing about the capital is I can call it directly (i dont need to search through all fo the cities looking for the capital).

So the player with the Ashen Veil as their state religion can build one of the ashen veil upgraded temples in his capital. It will destroy his normal ashen veil temple and keep it (and the other ashen veil upgrades) from being able to be built. Once the upgraded temple is built in his capital he will be able to build that upgraded temple (and only that one) in all of his cities.

Exactly. I personally think that great prophets should be able to help these get built.

 

[Kael]

Exactly. I personally think that great prophets should be able to help these get built.

That would be cool for a long term goal (when we can get better control on the AI) but for the short term we may just need to make these buildables. But I'll add it to list for a long term goal so we dont forget about it.

 

[loki1232]

I think that you should modify roots of the world tree this way:
-1 trade route per entangled enemy would take too much CPU, so instead it should only be allowed to trade with Fellowship cities.

 

[Lunargent]

I have no idea about how much extra CPU time it would use up, but I modified it as you said. I also changed the Shadowed Vale to relfect the fact that this buildng will only be buildable once. I designed them with the idea that we could build different ones in different cities, to further specialize them. I'll change the cast roots part too, once I get another idea, since it's useless in only one city.

Another idea is to make only one of these buildable per civ in the capital, but make it affect ALL of the player's cities. They would have to be tweaked a bit more for balance from what they are now ( smaller multipliers both positive and negative), but it would really differentiate one (for example) leaves civ from another. One that built the Golden Wood would be a shining beacon of culture and health, while one that built the Shadowed Vale would be a mysterious, close knit clan of elves that people in other cultures whisper about in fear.

 

[loki1232]

Another idea is to make only one of these buildable per civ in the capital, but make it affect ALL of the player's cities. They would have to be tweaked a bit more for balance from what they are now ( smaller multipliers both positive and negative), but it would really differentiate one (for example) leaves civ from another. One that built the Golden Wood would be a shining beacon of culture and health, while one that built the Shadowed Vale would be a mysterious, close knit clan of elves that people in other cultures whisper about in fear.

We sort of have that, but you still have the build the temple in each of your cities. The one built in your capital is teh deciding one.

 

[loki1232]

I think that the silver wood should have "trade routes yeild food isntead of gold"

 

[Lunargent]

We sort of have that, but you still have the build the temple in each of your cities. The one built in your capital is teh deciding one.

So....you build the special building in your capital, and any temples you build in your cities give it them the same traits? At least I think that's what you are saying.

think that the silver wood should have "trade routes yeild food isntead of gold"

This would be crippling to the economy. Take a look at a typical late game city,and how much of of its economy comes from trade routes.

 

[Corlindale]

The food from trade route would probably be a significant advantage during the Blight, though.