Design: Buildings

[Lunargent]

Getting animals to breed is a tricky business most of the time. There are species that even today have to be artificially inseminated because they won't breed in captivity.

I think of the animal pens as similar to the captured lions and stuff the Romans used in their games. They knew how to capture them, and use them for entertainment, but they were thousands of years from figuring out how to make them into a breeding population. I think just letting the animal pen exist for hundreds of years shows some ability to get them to breed, but not much more than that.

 

[Kael]

Getting animals to breed is a tricky business most of the time. There are species that even today have to be artificially inseminated because they won't breed in captivity.

I think of the animal pens as similar to the captured lions and stuff the Romans used in their games. They knew how to capture them, and use them for entertainment, but they were thousands of years from figuring out how to make them into a breeding population. I think just letting the animal pen exist for hundreds of years shows some ability to get them to breed, but not much more than that.

Ohhhh..... animal pens that give a boost with collosums.... mmmm....

 

[wilboman]

In truth I'm just a bit miffed that in my latest FfH game I have tons of lions and precious little of anything else. I would have loved to be able to build more

 

[loki1232]

Ohhhh..... animal pens that give a boost with collosums.... mmmm....

How about Animal pens which are posessed by demons?
Animals that have experiments done on them by sadistic scientists?

 

[Kael]

In truth I'm just a bit miffed that in my latest FfH game I have tons of lions and precious little of anything else. I would have loved to be able to build more

It will be easier with 1.0. In 1.0 the animals don't dissapear when the barbarians appear. That way you hunt the little stuff early in the game, and you can be out hunting for tiger and bears later on.

 

[loki1232]

It will be easier with 1.0. In 1.0 the animals don't dissapear when the barbarians appear. That way you hunt the little stuff early in the game, and you can be out hunting for tiger and bears later on.

There still should be a little more variation.

 

[Kael]

There still should be a little more variation.

The chance to be spawned depends on the terrain type of the map you play. Certain animals only spawn in certain terrain types. If you play on a map with a lot of tundra you will see skeletons and wolves. If you play on one with a lot of deserts and grasslands you will see more lions. If you have a lot of jungles you will see panthers and tigers.

Outside of that the chances are even.

 

[loki1232]

Illian Palace: I don't see why it can't give ice mana. Either that or just give it no benefits. These guys will be weak enough as it is.

Sidar Palace: Maybe gives extra GP birth?

Citadel of Light: nice idea. Not sure what spell yet. Maybe a random one that you have access to?
It gives me the idea for a building-Beacon of Light. Increases city's sight range by one point.

Library = Magic Scrolls.

I think that Sidar buildings should allow you to appoint specialists that are the kept shades of dead people. They would be uber specialists, like +8 culture or +6 money, but they would give -1 population every many turns, to symbolize the people becoming useless and having to be replaced.

 

[loki1232]

The chance to be spawned depends on the terrain type of the map you play. Certain animals only spawn in certain terrain types. If you play on a map with a lot of tundra you will see skeletons and wolves. If you play on one with a lot of deserts and grasslands you will see more lions. If you have a lot of jungles you will see panthers and tigers.

Outside of that the chances are even.

So where will minotaurs and fire breathing rabbits spawn?

 

[Kael]

Illian Palace: I don't see why it can't give ice mana. Either that or just give it no benefits. These guys will be weak enough as it is.

Because there is no ice mana while Mulcarn is dead. Illians are scheduled as a non-playable civ, they are definitly going to be behind the 8-ball. Unless a quest kicks that may reverse that dramatically....

Sidar Palace: Maybe gives extra GP birth?

I like that, I'll add it.

Citadel of Light: nice idea. Not sure what spell yet. Maybe a random one that you have access to?
It gives me the idea for a building-Beacon of Light. Increases city's sight range by one point.

Library = Magic Scrolls.

I think that Sidar buildings should allow you to appoint specialists that are the kept shades of dead people. They would be uber specialists, like +8 culture or +6 money, but they would give -1 population every many turns, to symbolize the people becoming useless and having to be replaced.

I like this too.

 

[loki1232]

T3 building. Smithery- gives +10% of trade routes as sheilds per metal resource. (mithril, iron, copper)

 

[Kael]

T3 building. Smithery- gives +10% of trade routes as sheilds per metal resource. (mithril, iron, copper)

Im not sure how to do this, but I like the idea. I added it.

 

[loki1232]

I know you dislike patterns, but i really think that Runes should get a special building as well. Maybe dwarven orge (the one you just added) could be it. At least the name fits.

 

[Kael]

I know you dislike patterns, but i really think that Runes should get a special building as well. Maybe dwarven orge (the one you just added) could be it. At least the name fits.

Why should they get one?

 

[loki1232]

Why should they get one?

Because any civ following kilmorph would get to trade with the dwarves and learn their secrets. They'd also get to build a dwarven type city.

 

[loki1232]

We have a mix of 4 Unit granting methods:

1. Normal unit tree (all the shared units, warriors, longbowmen, etc). Units granted to all civs (in general). We probably own't be adding many units here, maybe a few ships, but this unit tree is pretty solid.

2. UU's. Units that replace units in the normal tech tree for a specific civ. The non-human civs will have tons of these. The human civs could have none.

3. Resource upgrades. Upgrades to existing units that are only available if a specific resource is available. This resource could be Fire mana, Nightmares, Hellstones, Iron, Banannas, anything. Most mana types will probably allow a few of these.

Will the buildigns work in the same way?
Anyone can build an obelisk. Only elves can build elven shrine. Any civ with a nature node can build a magic garden (or something)

 

[Kael]

Will the buildigns work in the same way?
Anyone can build an obelisk. Only elves can build elven shrine. Any civ with a nature node can build a magic garden (or something)

Yes, but on a much smaller scale.

 

[Kael]

Okay, here is my first pass at converting your guys upgraded temple ideas. I broke it down to 2 buildings for each religion because it allows us to focus on the variance for that religion.

The temptation is to give each religion a science option, a culture option, etc. But if that is done the religions begin to mix together and lose their individual styles. I love the idea of having these upgraded temples make the religion more distinct but they need to stay within the parameters for that religion. It is hard to come up with 2 concepts, both of which are within the core concept for the religion but different enough from each other to create a real difference depending on what the palyer chooses.

So for example the RuneVault is no longer a strong science building because the Runes of Kilmorph is not a science religion. Also some ideas had to be dropped becaused they are used in other places (the Shadowed Vale wass to close to the Hidden trait, the Roots of the great Tree was to close to the Nature Unbound wonder).

All of these are your origional concepts but the abilities have been tweaked a lot. I haven't played much with balance so that still needs to be worked out but I wanted to get us to one common list to work from.

What do you guys think, is there anything I cut that you think needs to come back? Any improvements you would like to see on these buildings?

Runes:

1. Hall of Granite (concept: insular, defensive)
+50% defense
Non Kilmorph religions give -1 happiness each
-20% culture
-1 Trade route
-1 Food from forests
City is more likely to culture flip away from non-Runes civs

2. RuneVault (concept: wise, traditional)
Gems give +1 culture
Stone gives +1 science
-10% production
+1 Prophet GP points


Fellowship:

1. The Golden Wood (concept: open, elegant)
+25% culture
+1 trade routes
+1 great artist
+1 maintenance per unhealthiness point (I love this idea, i have no idea how to do it but Im going to see if I can do it)
+25% war weariness

2. The Shadowed Vale (concept: closed, mystical)
Units created here gain a +40% vs recon units promotion
+1 great sage
-1 trade routes.
-25% culture.


Veil:

1. Demon's altar (concept: demon worship, dark magic)
All units can be sacrificed for research, the higher the level of the unit, the more research is given
Units created here start with a +40% vs disciples promotion
-2 Happy

2. Forbidden Library (concept: intellegent)
-20% culture, +10% science
Trade routes yeild science instead of gold.
10% chance of providing a Mind mana resource


Overlords:

1. Overseer's Residence (concept: punishing, controlling)
Doubles effects of slaves sacrificed for production
Slaves sacrificed give +20 science
Population sacrificed for production gives double effects
-10% gold, culture
Free Combat 1 promotion for Lunatics

2. Theater of Dreams (concept: insane)
25% of the units produced in this city are Crazed
Additional bonus from carnival and animal pens
City is more likely to culture flip away from non-OO civs


Order:

1. Inquisitorial Halls (concept: strict)
Removes all religion but the Order from the city
Keeps religions except the order from spreading to the city
Inquisitioners can be trained early, given +4 xp if the Inq required tech is also known
Paladins created in this city gain the Command promotion
+1 happiness

2. Enforcement Offices (concept: managed)
-50% war weariness
-50% maintenance
-1 maintenance per happy
-1 maintenance per military unti in city
Doubled effect of great commanders recruit ability

 

[loki1232]

Order:

1. Inquisitorial Halls (concept: strict)
Removes all religion but the Order from the city
Keeps religions except the order from spreading to the city
Inquisitioners can be trained early, given +4 xp if the Inq required tech is also known
Paladins created in this city gain the Command promotion
+1 happiness

2. Enforcement Offices (concept: managed)
-50% war weariness
-50% maintenance
-1 maintenance per happy
-1 maintenance per military unti in city
Doubled effect of great commanders recruit ability

1. I think it should stop all religions from spreading to the city.
I think that is way to powerful. What are its disadvantages? I think that it should give -2 happy.

2. -1 maintenance per happy face? What???? Shouldn't it be -1 happiness per maintenance? Also, I love the great commander thing.

 

[loki1232]

Overlords:

1. Overseer's Residence (concept: punishing, controlling)
Doubles effects of slaves sacrificed for production
Slaves sacrificed give +20 science
Population sacrificed for production gives double effects
-10% gold, culture
Free Combat 1 promotion for Lunatics

2. Theater of Dreams (concept: insane)
25% of the units produced in this city are Crazed
Additional bonus from carnival and animal pens
City is more likely to culture flip away from non-OO civs

1. I think that should also give -1 happiness. Its a punishing and controlling civ, so shouldn't the people be somewhat unhappy.

2. I love this. What if that gave -10% GP points? Insane people?