Design: Buildings

[loki1232]

1. Im thinking the Amurite UB will be the one that grants the +1 xp for every different mana resource they have. What do you think, should that be an ability they just start with or require a special building?

Of these buildling suggestions they offer a group of pros and cons, but nothing is really striking me as quite right. I do love the "Cave of Ancestry" name, I actually didn't catch the significance of the name the first time I read it.

2. I like the idea for the sacrifical altar too. Bascially a building that boosts the benifit of sacrificing captured slaves and animals. but do you think is should be civ specific or open to anyone?

1. I think that they should build a magic academy to get the XP bonus, and then they could specialize that with later buildings to get the +1 node when calculating starting spells. Also, the magic academy would give +10% science and allow a sage.

What kind of buildings would you like? I put these because I think that they will serve to make a calabim's cities much different from a luchuirp city, etc.

2. I think that this should be a doviello building only because we need a drool factor for them and i think they are the type to bring back victims and then ritually sacrifice them.

 

[loki1232]

Functionally this is going to far into the Luchuirp style of golem units (though I agree "Toymaker" flavor is perfectly Balseraph).

Yeah. Well what if we have a building with this effect for the Luchuirp, (Nature Golem Scrolls) and make the toymaker into this:
+2 happy.
+20% trade route yeild per cage.

with engineering.

 

[loki1232]

Of these buildling suggestions they offer a group of pros and cons, but nothing is really striking me as quite right. I do love the "Cave of Ancestry" name, I actually didn't catch the significance of the name the first time I read it.

Some of these buildings I agree with you are unneeded, but i think that some of them are good becuase they help with the drool factor of the civ.

Calabim:
Slaughterhouse-- (where the humans are eaten)
Double XP from vampirism.
+3 sheilds.
+1 unhappiness.

Grigori:
Houses of Trial--
Stops non-religion spread
+1 happy

Lanun:
Pirate Docks--
-50 gold Privateer hurry cost
+50% gold from returning pirates
Boarding Parties gets +4 XP
-2 gold.

 

[Kael]

Some of these buildings I agree with you are unneeded, but i think that some of them are good becuase they help with the drool factor of the civ.

Calabim:
Slaughterhouse-- (where the humans are eaten)
Double XP from vampirism.
+3 sheilds.
+1 unhappiness.

I just don't know that this makes it very fun. With a boost to xp it will become required that any city a player is going to Feast in will need one of these. And if you always need them, or if it always makes sense to build them, there is no real strategic choice (outside of spending the time to build it). And its not that we should counter that by increasing the negatives.

The strategic decision is "should I sacrifice population to strengthen my unit?" I don't know if we want to add more variables to that equation.

That said if you think the slauterhouse (bonus xp) is better function than breeding pit (bonus growth) then we could probably replace it. But since we already have one building that helps the Feast mechanic I hate to put in another. I tend to prefer the Breeding Pit because players can build them in the early game and get some use out of them before their vampires become available.

Grigori:
Houses of Trial--
Stops non-religion spread
+1 happy

Their Agnostic trait will already do this (mostly do this, I don't want to completly block religion spreads).

Lanun:
Pirate Docks--
-50 gold Privateer hurry cost
+50% gold from returning pirates
Boarding Parties gets +4 XP
-2 gold.

A booster for a specific function. I think ti will just add to the overwhelm factor without providing enough value.

 

[loki1232]

I just don't know that this makes it very fun. With a boost to xp it will become required that any city a player is going to Feast in will need one of these. And if you always need them, or if it always makes sense to build them, there is no real strategic choice (outside of spending the time to build it). And its not that we should counter that by increasing the negatives.

The strategic decision is "should I sacrifice population to strengthen my unit?" I don't know if we want to add more variables to that equation.

That said if you think the slauterhouse (bonus xp) is better function than breeding pit (bonus growth) then we could probably replace it. But since we already have one building that helps the Feast mechanic I hate to put in another. I tend to prefer the Breeding Pit because players can build them in the early game and get some use out of them before their vampires become available.

My idea was to have this available late game. That way it is still useful to have vampires late in the game, even when there are higher strength units. (also, in the latest version vampires can't learn spells. Not sure if this is intentional)

 

[Kael]

My idea was to have this available late game. That way it is still useful to have vampires late in the game, even when there are higher strength units. (also, in the latest version vampires can't learn spells. Not sure if this is intentional)

Once i get the mana resources in we can start passing out spells to units the right way. I put the creation, death and fire resources in tonight. I hope to have them all in for the next version. Ill put the palaces in to and we will have adepts that start with spells based on the spheres they have access to.

 

[loki1232]

Bannor:
Courts--
+2 happy
-2 gold
+20% trade route yeild

Hippus:
Mercenary Stables--
Horsemen start with +3 XP
Mounted Units get -75 gold hurry cost.
Mercenaries get the Pirate mechanic (gold from defeated enemies)

Grotesque Statuary (balseraphs)
Sacrificed slaves give +1 permament happiness
+3 culture
N.B. They're turning the slaves into statues.

 

[loki1232]

+Enforcement Office (concept: managed)
-50% war weariness
-50% maintenance
-1 maintenance per happy (not in yet)
-1 maintenance per military unit in city (not in yet)
Doubled effect of great commanders recruit ability

The Shadowed Vale (concept: closed, mystical)
Units created here gain a +40% vs recon units promotion
+1 great sage
-1 trade routes.
-25% culture.

Theater of Dreams (concept: insane)
25% of the units produced in this city are Crazed
Additional bonus from carnival and animal pens
City is more likely to culture flip away from non-OO civs

Okay, I looked at the temple upgrades and I think that they need a little balancing.

1. Enforcement Office has literally no disadvantage. Maybe -20% GP birth?

2. Shadowed Vale is much too weak. Maybe working forests gives +2 science or something?

3. I think that theater of dreams should give all lunatics "produced" in the city the combat one promotion. Those guys are suppposed to be insane, and this is there kinda place. Take it away from Overseer's residence and add it here.

 

[Chalid]

Concerning the temple upgrades:

No, then I would need to search all the cities again to see where the forbidden and winter palaces are. The nice thing about the capital is I can call it directly (i dont need to search through all fo the cities looking for the capital).

So the player with the Ashen Veil as their state religion can build one of the ashen veil upgraded temples in his capital. It will destroy his normal ashen veil temple and keep it (and the other ashen veil upgrades) from being able to be built. Once the upgraded temple is built in his capital he will be able to build that upgraded temple (and only that one) in all of his cities.

Keep in mind that a capital can change. You will have to move the flavour building on palace rebuild.

 

[Kael]

Okay, I looked at the temple upgrades and I think that they need a little balancing.

1. Enforcement Office has literally no disadvantage. Maybe -20% GP birth?

The disadvantage is that it keeps you from building the other temple upgrade. I could still add the -20% gp birth rate if you think its overpowered, but I dont see a reason to add it just so it will have a disadvantage. Let me know what you think.

2. Shadowed Vale is much too weak. Maybe working forests gives +2 science or something?

Yeah I agree. I dont like the science boost though, any other ideas?

3. I think that theater of dreams should give all lunatics "produced" in the city the combat one promotion. Those guys are suppposed to be insane, and this is there kinda place. Take it away from Overseer's residence and add it here.

I like the overseer's boosting the lunatics because they are causing the asylums to be run more efficently.

I was thinking about making the Runevault and the Theater of Dreams into wonders. So the players have the choice of making the Runevault/Theater of Dreams in one of their cities or the other option in all of their cities. The reason I really wanted to do this is because I wanted the Runevault to give a science bonus for every Runes city, way to powerful for a non-wonder.

What do you guys think?

 

[Chalid]

Can you add a Symbol (% or something) on each building we already have the final Art for? This would make it easier to pick some to create graphics for.

 

[loki1232]

The disadvantage is that it keeps you from building the other temple upgrade. I could still add the -20% gp birth rate if you think its overpowered, but I dont see a reason to add it just so it will have a disadvantage. Let me know what you think.

I think all of the temple upgrade should have a disadvantage. The loss of creativity is the price a controlling civ has to pay.

Yeah I agree. I dont like the science boost though, any other ideas?

Perhaps 25% of units built in city are invisible?

I like the overseer's boosting the lunatics because they are causing the asylums to be run more efficently.

I was thinking about making the Runevault and the Theater of Dreams into wonders. So the players have the choice of making the Runevault/Theater of Dreams in one of their cities or the other option in all of their cities. The reason I really wanted to do this is because I wanted the Runevault to give a science bonus for every Runes city, way to powerful for a non-wonder.

What do you guys think?

I think that they should be kept as temple upgrades. At least theater of dreams. I think that having a bonus for each city of your religion would be too much like a holy city shrine. (the AV one for example)

 

[loki1232]

I really think that the balseraphs should be able to build a "Garden of Statues" this would give +20% culture. Then they would get a "twisted sculptor" that when he won battles enslaved enemies into statues. Like another carnival.

 

[Chalid]

I was thinking about making the Runevault and the Theater of Dreams into wonders. So the players have the choice of making the Runevault/Theater of Dreams in one of their cities or the other option in all of their cities. The reason I really wanted to do this is because I wanted the Runevault to give a science bonus for every Runes city, way to powerful for a non-wonder.

What do you guys think?

The Problem with them being wonder is that you force an decision on other players of the same religion or are forced to adopt the other kind of religious way. Furthermore you get both if you capture the wonder as they are not destroyed by your invasion.

The workaroud for these problems would of course be making them National wonders.

 

[Kael]

The Problem with them being wonder is that you force an decision on other players of the same religion or are forced to adopt the other kind of religious way. Furthermore you get both if you capture the wonder as they are not destroyed by your invasion.

The workaroud for these problems would of course be making them National wonders.

You and Loki are right. I think I will keep both as normal buildings.

 

[Chalid]

Do we still plan to drop some of the tier 3 buildings and make the tier 4 units only available through upgrading them from tier 3 guys? If yes which buildings would be dropped?

 

[Kael]

Do we still plan to drop some of the tier 3 buildings and make the tier 4 units only available through upgrading them from tier 3 guys? If yes which buildings would be dropped?

Good point, I went through and marked the building that could possibly be removed.

 

[loki1232]

I think that the Sidar Palace should also give +2 bard points. People also suspend their souls to make art.
if this is too much better than the grigori palace then have the grigori palace stop religion spread to that city or allow early training of inquisitors.

 

[Lunargent]

As an artist, I'd have to say that people suspend their souls when they don't make art. I don't see the Sidar as artists *shrug*.

 

[Kael]

As an artist, I'd have to say that people suspend their souls when they don't make art. I don't see the Sidar as artists *shrug*.

There are a few types of people that bcome sidar. One of those are artists looking to create forever. Though at first they accomplish their goals as the years roll by and they consume more and more of their soul their art becomes as lifeless and bland as the shade himself. Whats more the artist looses his passion and either drops it entirely or continues on in simple force of habit rather than from a love of creation.

I think loki's earlier idea of the enhanced specialists is a better idea than the bonus great people points. I think I will change the palace to boost all specialists.