Design: Civilizations

[Lunargent]

Need drool factor:

1. Balseraphs- I know this is going to be carnival theme, I just cant find the mechanic to bring it all together.
What if they got uber carnivals.
a) can cage any race at all. yes, caged dragons
b) get extra bonuses from the pens with things like freak shows and colleseums.
c) Late in the game can "breed" caged animals and thus get the benefits everywhere. yes, breeding humans.

a-awesome idea
b-maybe allow them to build pens anywhere but enemy territory. They could build a pen on a site where they plan on building a future city, and have some culture ready and waiting for them when the settler arrives-not to mention deny it to other civs. It should cost a bit of money to do this though.
c-another great idea, if anyone should be able to do this, these are the guys.

Bannor- Strong defence and low maintenance is a good design mechanic but dull. We need something fun here.
Righteous crusades perhaps? Automatic celebrations in every city as long as they are at war with a civ of another religion?

Do celebrations do anything but spam your message box? Crusades could be implemented as a one time free draft in each city that has the state religion with no penalties.

Doviello- The beastmen need a mechanic to make them fun. Something about a decreased replicance on cities and ability to create units in the field.
Maybe whenever they attack a city some of the population and units die? Also, what if whenever one of their demon type units wins a battle, it creates a beastman type unit like "demon spawn".

I think destroying population and units would be too powerful. Though I can see giving them a chance per attack to destroy population as being more balanced. Ironically, it would have the side-effect of making the city take less time in revolution. (though that never last more than a turn with well used disciples)
Perhaps, instead, give them a chance to have random units spawn in the fog of war and join their side- barbarians who join their cause instead of going wild.

Elohim- These guys should be built for defensive growth players. I just dont know what the mechanic is to help with this.
Perhaps they can an automatic defense unit on each square of their city fat crosses. It's strength would be based on the size of the city, and its type a spirit. After one is killed it is rebuilt automatically the next time there are no enemies in that city's fat cross.

Instead of this, how about giving enemy units a negative disease like promotion called Spiritual Defense that makes enemy units unable to heal in Elohim lands. It would give great defense, no offense, and not really lag the computer that much with dozens of units.

Khazad- So the dwarves are half the height of normal units, but what beyond that?
Maybe huge bonuses for workshops and mines? Tolkienesque dwarves that produce lots of metal and have cool tunnels? Like mines increase movement?

I'd love to see dwarves that can build tunnels. They could provide faster movement between cities and mines. Probably a bonus to defense in a tile with a tunnel in it as well. ( they could use holes to pop-up and harrass attackers.) the units using the tunnels don't have to be drawn underground, it just would be understood that they're usign the tunnels to get around faster.

Kuriotates- ?
Can upgrade the terrain as production in their cities. Here's what i mean.
A kuriotate city has a desert square. To get rid of it they can build-recreate desert. The desert is removed and replaced with a random square. Deserts and mountains are never the replacements. The replacement starts with a forest on it and all improvments are destroyed. Any resource on the square remains.

It's pretty easy to change land as it is with spells.
How about letting them control what type of great person they create? Everyone else just gets theirs randomly . Give them a pop-up that lets them choose what type of great person they want to create when it's time for one to spawn. That alone would make me want to play as these guys.

Also, for a very high cost they can build new resources. For example, if they have a grassland in a city's fat cross that has no resource on it they can build any food resource in the city. When the resource is built all improvements on the square are destroyed, and the resource is placed on it. They can build food resources for grasslands, and plains, metal resources (not mithral) and gems for hills, and water resources for water squares. They can build inscence for deserts. iHowever, these resources give no production/food/gold benefits to their spaces, simply strategic benefits.

Instead of creating new resources that don't quite do what the regular ones do, let them move resources around. Give them a special UU that can take a resources from one location, and move it to another. Make it take 10 turns to "pick up" a resource from a location within your cultural borders, and 20 turns to do it from outside, and 5 turns to "plant" the resource in it's new location. If the unit is killed, the resource is lost.

Luchuirp- ?
What if all of their units were created with the golem type, but got +1 xp for each different magic type they controlled? Once the unit got to level 4, it could buy the "I'm a real boy" promotion, giving it it's normal type and allowing it to level.

This would be pretty weak, given how fast units can level. +1 xp would be nothing. They were the greatest creators of artifacts in the previous age, perhaps let them have some of that greatness start to show through again with a free quality armor and weapons promotion for all units.

Malakim- we have some style, but we need some drool factor for these guys.
What if they get to spread whatever religion they have very far and wide? They would build missionaries twice as fast, and would get a gold bonus whenever they spread their religion. Also, they would get to see all cities of their religion as though they had the holy city. Finally, they could build acolytes and priests without temples and without resources.

Great idea as well.

 

[loki1232]

b-maybe allow them to build pens anywhere but enemy territory. They could build a pen on a site where they plan on building a future city, and have some culture ready and waiting for them when the settler arrives-not to mention deny it to other civs. It should cost a bit of money to do this though.
.

I don't really like this idea. What if instead the carnivals they built in their outposts in hell allowed the city to expand its cultural influence (since generally its very hard for a city in hell to expand its borders)?

Do celebrations do anything but spam your message box? Crusades could be implemented as a one time free draft in each city that has the state religion with no penalties.

Well celebrations technically make you pay no maintenance for that city. What if they got the no maintenance, and they could draft units without unhappiness while on a crusade. Also, no war weariness.

I think destroying population and units would be too powerful. Though I can see giving them a chance per attack to destroy population as being more balanced. Ironically, it would have the side-effect of making the city take less time in revolution. (though that never last more than a turn with well used disciples)
Perhaps, instead, give them a chance to have random units spawn in the fog of war and join their side- barbarians who join their cause instead of going wild.

No, these aren't the guys who are friendly with barbs, that's clan of embers. What i meant to say was that when they attack a city some of the population and buildings are destroyed. I thinkt hat this would be a fun way to hurt your enemies.

Instead of this, how about giving enemy units a negative disease like promotion called Spiritual Defense that makes enemy units unable to heal in Elohim lands. It would give great defense, no offense, and not really lag the computer that much with dozens of units.

I like this. Also, reduced chance of enemy spells working in elohim lands because their god is suppressing them.

I'd love to see dwarves that can build tunnels. They could provide faster movement between cities and mines. Probably a bonus to defense in a tile with a tunnel in it as well. ( they could use holes to pop-up and harrass attackers.) the units using the tunnels don't have to be drawn underground, it just would be understood that they're usign the tunnels to get around faster.

It's pretty easy to change land as it is with spells.
How about letting them control what type of great person they create? Everyone else just gets theirs randomly . Give them a pop-up that lets them choose what type of great person they want to create when it's time for one to spawn. That alone would make me want to play as these guys.

Instead of creating new resources that don't quite do what the regular ones do, let them move resources around. Give them a special UU that can take a resources from one location, and move it to another. Make it take 10 turns to "pick up" a resource from a location within your cultural borders, and 20 turns to do it from outside, and 5 turns to "plant" the resource in it's new location. If the unit is killed, the resource is lost.

i admit i like your ideas more. I especially like the resource moving.

This would be pretty weak, given how fast units can level. +1 xp would be nothing. They were the greatest creators of artifacts in the previous age, perhaps let them have some of that greatness start to show through again with a free quality armor and weapons promotion for all units.

Yeah, I geuss it would work better to have them get really powerful (and magical) equipment. Perhaps they would be the only civ that could actually build equipments as units in their cities? Others get small armor bonuses and have to capture them in battle.

 

[Lunargent]

I don't really like this idea. What if instead the carnivals they built in their outposts in hell allowed the city to expand its cultural influence (since generally its very hard for a city in hell to expand its borders)?

I'm equally fine with either.

Well celebrations technically make you pay no maintenance for that city. What if they got the no maintenance, and they could draft units without unhappiness while on a crusade. Also, no war weariness.

I think this could be pretty powerfull then, how about greatly reduced war weariness, or a much greater than normal chance of having a celebration, but not automatic. A smart AI would switch religions ASAP, but the AI is never smart.

No, these aren't the guys who are friendly with barbs, that's clan of embers. What i meant to say was that when they attack a city some of the population and buildings are destroyed. I thinkt hat this would be a fun way to hurt your enemies.

Some buildings are already destroyed when you conquer a city, so this wouldn't be too much different. It wouldn't be that much usefull for me at least, since I usually keep the city around and like it when a few buildings manage to survive.
I didn't mean for this civ to be friendly with barbs, but for friendly beastmen units to spawn in the Fog of war (read: the wild). They'd still have to survive the trek back through hostile barb lands to be usable to the player.

Yeah, I geuss it would work better to have them get really powerful (and magical) equipment. Perhaps they would be the only civ that could actually build equipments as units in their cities? Others get small armor bonuses and have to capture them in battle.

I think it's powerfull enough as written. Everyone else has to build pollution causing armorers and weaponsmiths to get the same effect.

 

[loki1232]

Okay so while the Bannor are on a crusade they get free drafting, decreased war weariness, and increased chance of celebrations.

 

[Lunargent]

That works.

Should they have increased (above what other civs get) war weariness for attacking a civ of the same religion?

 

[loki1232]

That works.

Should they have increased (above what other civs get) war weariness for attacking a civ of the same religion?

nah. what if they get extra unhappiness for drafting in those circumstanses? Also, when fighting against another religion they get 1 draft per turn regardless of civics.

 

[Lunargent]

How about: they can't draft at all when fighting the same religion, but can draft one per turn regardless of civics when fighting a different religion?

 

[talchas]

What if they are war with two people then?

 

[Lunargent]

Depends on their religion. If they are the same, then it could be doubly bad (extra unhappiness), but it shouldn't be doubly good if they are both a different religion (effects mentioned here for fighting against one). If they are one the same and one different, then they should be affected as if they were any other civ.

 

[talchas]

I mean, what do you do about the drafting ability - you can't have it on vs one civ and off vs another or have it part on and part off.

 

[Lunargent]

I wasn't very clear I guess

It depends:

At war with a civ of a different religion- 1 draft per turn regardless of civic, reduced war weariness, extra chance of celebrations.

At war with a civ of the same religion-can't draft at all regardless of civics.

At war with 2 or more civs, one of the same religion, one different-they act just like any other civ.

At war with 2 or more civs, all of different religions- same effect as if they were at war with only one civ. ( Same amount of war weariness as if they were at war with only one)

 

[loki1232]

Some buildings are already destroyed when you conquer a city, so this wouldn't be too much different. It wouldn't be that much usefull for me at least, since I usually keep the city around and like it when a few buildings manage to survive.
I didn't mean for this civ to be friendly with barbs, but for friendly beastmen units to spawn in the Fog of war (read: the wild). They'd still have to survive the trek back through hostile barb lands to be usable to the player.

What if instead they got a unit when they pillaged an enemy improvement? It wouldn't be an especially powerful unit (same as a draft in the capital), but the many new units would make stopping an invasion from these guys very difficult.

I think it's powerfull enough as written. Everyone else has to build pollution causing armorers and weaponsmiths to get the same effect.

Okay. But that doesn't seem exciting enough. I mean we now that they'll get cool equipment, but what is so great about that? Will it be magical?

 

[Lunargent]

What if instead they got a unit when they pillaged an enemy improvement? It wouldn't be an especially powerful unit (same as a draft in the capital), but the many new units would make stopping an invasion from these guys very difficult.

This would have pretty much the same effect ( extra units) but have a totally different mechanic. I think either works, though having beasmen spawn in the wild instead of from pillaging to make them amkes a bit more logical sense to me.

Okay. But that doesn't seem exciting enough. I mean we now that they'll get cool equipment, but what is so great about that? Will it be magical?

Sure, it can be magical, though that just sounds like a semantics change unless we can get glowing swords or something.

 

[loki1232]

Not neccessarily. Magical items could allow you to fly, or walk on water. Things like that.

 

[loki1232]

Okay, It seems that we have all of the mechanics for the civs, except for the Kuriotates. What is special about them? Maybe we should get ridof htem and add a diff civ.

 

[Kael]

Updated the picture of Hyborem to one that I thought better suited him.

 

[Kael]

Okay, It seems that we have all of the mechanics for the civs, except for the Kuriotates. What is special about them? Maybe we should get ridof htem and add a diff civ.

Yeah, I agree that they are definitly the most undefined at this point. Lets come up with civ ideas (that don't have a ton of art requirements, aka: human) and if we can match them to the Kuriotates we will use it, or if we are better off to switch them we can do that.

I was going to have the Kuriotates get an additional benifit from improvements, particuraly cottages/villages/towns/hamlets. Making them very effiicent in well tended lands and weak to pillaging. I was also thinking about giving them centaurs as their mounted units to give them a little character. I assume centaurs wouldnt be to hard to make.

 

[woodelf]

I assume centaurs wouldnt be to hard to make.

I think I mentioned this to Rabbit (or maybe Roland) a month or two ago and he said it would be tough, but I think the unit guys have learned tons since then.

 

[Chalid]

Problem with Centaurs is that they need their own animations. What we have done so far was reusing old Animations. But we'll see wat the future brings.

 

[loki1232]

Apparently you added the merc mod. Great. I think that the Hippus should get double gold from hiring themselves out, and once merc's that they hire have reached a high level (6?) then they become normal Hippus units.