Design: Promotions

[eerr]

Thought about that, too, but actually they stack with the other promotions.
Eg Comabt makes each of teh first strikes more effective.
So they require thinking before using the way they are now. I like that

and how many archers have you raised to drill 4?

you could still make them slightly better, say, bump up 2 of the half first strike chances to actual first strikes-this would increase the power of the promotions greatly

plus drill doesn't lead to anything usefull-
perhaps if drill 4 could lead to marksman(kill indefinate amount of magic users quickly)
or drill 3 could lead to blitz then it would also be a more viable option

i also think that city raider three makes more sense giving +20% vs archers rather than meelee as archers are the best defense

 

[Grey Fox]

I think that Drill is fine, its better then you think because (I'm not sure?) it doesnt change the odds-calculator much, and some of it is chance. But consider the fact that 2 first strikes can change the battle alot when you might only need 5 hits to kill your target. (Add treetop defense and the Blade Dance to this )

Also, I dont understand why Archer of the leaves cant select the Wooden promotions anymore.

 

[QES]

I think that Drill is fine, its better then you think because (I'm not sure?) it doesnt change the odds-calculator much, and some of it is chance. But consider the fact that 2 first strikes can change the battle alot when you might only need 5 hits to kill your target. (Add treetop defense and the Blade Dance to this )

Also, I dont understand why Archer of the leaves cant select the Wooden promotions anymore.

The problem with first strikes is that they're not particularly guarenteed, and they dont change combat stats, as you said. A 3 archer vs a 5 unit, is generally going to lose. Even if it has a ton of drill promotions.

I would like to see a promotion type that has "double damage" for first strike rounds. Since the discussions on stone skin and lifespark began, ive been hopeing for some sort of "hard hitting" promotion.

Sniper: Successful First Strikes do double damage, - 1 First strikes (Available at the end of the drill line of promotions)

Mortal Wound: Sucessful First strikes cause bleeding (X amount of damage done to enemy per combat round regardless who wins the round). - 1 First strikes. (Available at the end of the drill line of promotions)

These two promtoins would have 2 effects, they would reduce the total amount of first strikes a unit has (and had built up), but also add qualities TO those first strikes to make them very powerful in certain situations and quite deadly, if not very damaging. A unit that had both, would be able to cripple enemies, even with low strength. The lower strengths of archers would still mean that they'd lose most rounds, but the damage they would have done would be enough to possibly turn the tide.

-Qes

EDIT: Keep in mind that if your worried about uber city defenders here, that the units grabbing these promotions have likely not also taken city defender promotoins, as the drill line would be required. Granted, that if an uber archer unit was roaming around, then decided to defend a city, having both would be a force to behold. Still, seige engines or cavalry (first strike immune) could spell doom for the little unit.

 

[Grey Fox]

A high experienced archers is a deadly thing indeed, combine the Drill line with a full combat line and city+hill defense and you have a hard to beat unit. Upgrade it to a Flurry or Longbowman or something and its even better.

But sure, something like you said would be nice, critical hits and bleeding during battle.

I still dont understand why (atleast the leaves archer) they dont have access to the wooden promotions.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

I still dont understand why (atleast the leaves archer) they dont have access to the wooden promotions.

Maybe all the woods are so dense that it's impossible to hit anything but tree with arrows

 

[Grillick]

Archery combat class has access to Guerilla, not Woodsman. Ranged combat is designed specifically to be most useful out in the open, and when you've got higher ground. The trees get in the way.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yes, but Archer of the LEAVES gets pretty gimped by that, I believe. (You get Woodsman II from the religion afterall, Runes get Guerilla 2 and their special unit even get it)

 

[QES]

Yes, but Archer of the LEAVES gets pretty gimped by that, I believe. (You get Woodsman II from the religion afterall, Runes get Guerilla 2 and their special unit even get it)

But the dwarves have crap archers. So its ok that their normal units do ok in hills.
-Qes

 

[Grillick]

It just goes to show you, even the Fellowship needs to chop down all their forests.

 

[Grey Fox]

But the dwarves have crap archers. So its ok that their normal units do ok in hills.
-Qes

Well, when the regular archer is better at defending city then the Unique Archer unit of a religion I think there is something wrong. The Archer of Leavs dont have anything special really but +10% in forests/ancient and double movement in them. So they arent really much better in the field then a regular archer anyways. I guess the fact they dont require an Archery Range makes them OK.

 

[Grillick]

the archer of leaves is not only cheaper than the regular archer, but it doesn't require a special building to create.

That is the balance.

 

[Grey Fox]

Make me able to convert them to an elven slave, and maybe...

Sorry, for cluttering the promotion thread with unit talk >_<

 

[QES]

Well, when the regular archer is better at defending city then the Unique Archer unit of a religion I think there is something wrong. The Archer of Leavs dont have anything special really but +10% in forests/ancient and double movement in them. So they arent really much better in the field then a regular archer anyways. I guess the fact they dont require an Archery Range makes them OK.

They also dont require buildings to build them. Remember that efficiency is often better that totality. If you've got the religion, you dont need archery buildings.
-Qes

EDIT: Damnit, grillick beats everyone.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah, well, I said that makes them OK. I still dont think they are especially good.

(Having access to woodsman promotion would make them good)

 

[QES]

Yeah, well, I said that makes them OK. I still dont think they are especially good.

(Having access to woodsman promotion would make them good)

Access would be good, though not automation. If they leveled up, i agree that they should have it as an eventual option.
-Qes

 

[Jean Elcard]

Ever thought about making some promotions more distinguishable from their pedecessors? I'm thinking of Shock I and Shock II for example. Would be nice to see the difference with one glance. Let it be two instead of one fist or add a star to the fist. You might even lend (steal) some icons for this from Sevo Mod. ;-)

Btw, also for some other promotions it would be nice to have simpler modeled icons. They did it this way in vanilla for some reason I think.

 

[Zuul]

You should be able to gain experience, by moving, exploring, casting magic, and maybe other stuff like healing and such.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Cross-posted from the cavalry line thread.


Maneuver by Elements: New tech or reworked existing tech. (Perhaps with other stuff.)
Effects: Allows the Screening promotion to mounted units. Screening is a clone of the existing Fear spell. It simulates teh ability of a mounted force to simply ride outside the ranger radius of any approaching threat. A Screening unit has a chance to force the attacker to execute a Withdrawal action before the first round of combat. This give a line of mounted units a chance to form a skirmish line ahead of an attacking force. Details TBD, but as this would work like an existing (and nifty) bit of code, it seems plausible.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Cross-posted from the cavalry line thread.


Maneuver by Elements: New tech or reworked existing tech. (Perhaps with other stuff.)
Effects: Allows the Screening promotion to mounted units. Screening is a clone of the existing Fear spell. It simulates teh ability of a mounted force to simply ride outside the ranger radius of any approaching threat. A Screening unit has a chance to force the attacker to execute a Withdrawal action before the first round of combat. This give a line of mounted units a chance to form a skirmish line ahead of an attacking force. Details TBD, but as this would work like an existing (and nifty) bit of code, it seems plausible.

Wouldn't this make cavalry units the best stack defenders? Regardless of their strength?
How about instead give cavalry an ability similar to Loki or Maian's Heroes, only on a % to succeed basis?

 

[Jono]

Maybe a Fearless promotion instead which actually gives a slight bonus against units with fear?