Design: Promotions

[Frozen-Vomit]

I would like to see something like march for naval units. An experienced crew could repair the ship while it's mouving...

 

[Sisonpyh]

I think some of the promotions should be toned down a bit. Especially the 80% against melee/archer and the city raider.

For example, in my latest game, I completely wiped out about 5 different civs with TWO units. One of my warriors somehow killed Orthus while defending in a city and I immediately put him to work against the barbs. Eventually upgraded the guy to Maceman, by that time he was lvl 9 or 10. I rushed Veil and once I got Rosier, it was all over. My maceman and Rosier just went balistic and wiped everything out in their paths. Didn't even need catapults, they just steamrolled the entire map together. Only other units built were archers and crossbows to occupy the cities I didn't raze.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Woodland Guardian: Unit gets +50% extra defence in forest squares, and +50% when attacking into forest squares. Unit cannot exit forests.

 

[Thunderwing]

Is there a way you could make a Combat X promotion that works like the regular combat promotions but can be taken an unlimited number of times after you have, say combat 5 and are above level 10? Otherwise, early game hero's start running out of steam, especially if use you them a lot or mess around with hero or barb xp settings.

 

[Zuul]

I got a list of balances and new ideas on promotions.

Amphibious: is not good enough, add some 10-20% attack damage.
Heal: Remove Combat IV+V extra healing and add them to a new promotion.
Combat VI: Combat +25% (should need some tech).
Commando: is not good enough, add some +10% attack damage
Medic III: +80% per turn will heal most units instantly, maybe too good, especially if you have the other ones too.
Subdue Animal: add +25% vs animals.
Guerilla/Woodsman: Should also add extra attack bonus.
Attack/Defend I+II+III+IV: +30% attack/defence, makes more varieties to units.
Drill: Most other pormotion has double bonuses compared to vanilla, but not these. They should be somewhat better.

Maybe have new promotions like traps for scouts (low damage when walking on that tile, and dissaperes after a while), and flee chance (similar to withdraw but used when attacked).

 

[Jono]

Commando: is not good enough, add some +10% attack damage.

You want to make the Raider trait stronger???

 

[Chalid]

Amphibious: is not good enough, add some 10-20% attack damage.

Hmm that might be true. Maybe we should simply remove it? Water walking includes Amphibious anyway. Or add a first Strike Chance?

Heal: Remove Combat IV+V extra healing and add them to a new promotion.

Its the only way to get extra healing (without use of magic) So its ok for Combat units

Combat VI: Combat +25% (should need some tech).

Whats the additional gaine gameplaywise?

Commando: is not good enough, add some +10% attack damage

Its not good on one unit alone that might be true (except for pillaging..) but on a pack. Did you try the Hippus...

Medic III: +80% per turn will heal most units instantly, maybe too good, especially if you have the other ones too.

Its only handed out to High pirests (max 3 per player) so it is ok. You cannot promote on Medic in FfH!

Subdue Animal: add +25% vs animals.

This one is direly needed

Guerilla/Woodsman: Should also add extra attack bonus.
Attack/Defend I+II+III+IV: +30% attack/defence, makes more varieties to units.

We have not set the infrastructure for these. But maybe something along the line will be in a later Version.

Drill: Most other pormotion has double bonuses compared to vanilla, but not these. They should be somewhat better.

Thought about that, too, but actually they stack with the other promotions.
Eg Comabt makes each of teh first strikes more effective.
So they require thinking before using the way they are now. I like that

 

[Kael]

Is there a way you could make a Combat X promotion that works like the regular combat promotions but can be taken an unlimited number of times after you have, say combat 5 and are above level 10? Otherwise, early game hero's start running out of steam, especially if use you them a lot or mess around with hero or barb xp settings.

We are considering something. But remember that the heroes are not intended to be used throughout the entire game. Any early game hero is powerful in his time but wont match up to late game heroes. Their power wanes differently depending on the heros, but we have no desire to make them last forever.

 

[Kael]

I got a list of balances and new ideas on promotions.

Amphibious: is not good enough, add some 10-20% attack damage.
Heal: Remove Combat IV+V extra healing and add them to a new promotion.
Combat VI: Combat +25% (should need some tech).
Commando: is not good enough, add some +10% attack damage
Medic III: +80% per turn will heal most units instantly, maybe too good, especially if you have the other ones too.
Subdue Animal: add +25% vs animals.
Guerilla/Woodsman: Should also add extra attack bonus.
Attack/Defend I+II+III+IV: +30% attack/defence, makes more varieties to units.
Drill: Most other pormotion has double bonuses compared to vanilla, but not these. They should be somewhat better.

Maybe have new promotions like traps for scouts (low damage when walking on that tile, and dissaperes after a while), and flee chance (similar to withdraw but used when attacked).

I agree with Chalid on everything. I'll add the +25% vs animals to Subdue animal.

 

[Zuul]

Hmm that might be true. Maybe we should simply remove it? Water walking includes Amphibious anyway. Or add a first Strike Chance?

Whats wrong with extra attack? Having extra combat on attack only and nothing extra on defend. Making this promotion different than others.

Its the only way to get extra healing (without use of magic) So its ok for Combat units

Thought about that, too, but actually they stack with the other promotions.
Eg Comabt makes each of teh first strikes more effective.
So they require thinking before using the way they are now. I like that

What do you mean only way? I meant I think the combat promotions are too good, almost always you choose those ones first then others, making little variation on units. Better to remove the extra from them and make a new promotion - heal. Also now you always choose combat before drill because having a lot of drill first is not so good - hence little variation.

Whats the additional gaine gameplaywise?

I fast run out of good promotions so one more at least is needed. But if other promotions like attack and defend are added you have more to use and this one is less needed.

We have not set the infrastructure for these. But maybe something along the line will be in a later Version.

You mean you don't have the code for it yet? Well defend and attack already works (but the info about it is cluttered). Extra attack on features, yes those need coding. But for example elves and other wood creatures should have extra attack in forrests.

 

[Kael]

You mean you don't have the code for it yet? Well defend and attack already works (but the info about it is cluttered). Extra attack on features, yes those need coding. But for example elves and other wood creatures should have extra attack in forrests.

There are a few things we want to add some functions for us to play with. The most exciting of which is what Chalid was alluding to and I'll let him talk about it.

But we also want modifers for the terrain that is being attacked into (like you mentioned), and I have iAttack and iDefend as promotion attributes to be able to directly give units bonus/penalties when attacking or defending. Right now we use the same somewhat ugly method as you to accomplish this effect.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

As there are only three Dragons in the game, with all off time being very though to kill, i would like to have some extras for bringing them down:

My suggestions:

- give the unit that defeats a dragon the name "Slayer of xxx"

- the immortal promotion (like siegfried (german myths) got from bathing in the dragons blood...)

- the fear promotion ("hey, i'm stronger than your dragon... and now i'm coming for you )

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

Just had a idea for a new promotion for summoners, don't know if this has been suggested or discussed somewhere here (or is already in - if yes i missed it ). But nevertheless:

Spirit Link:

- Requires Combat 5, so same level as twincast.

- Whenever a unit summoned by somebody who has spirit link wins a battle the summoner gains 1 exp.

 

[wilboman]

We were talking about having that as the standard leveling system for mages all the way back in FfH 1.

As far as I can remember, it was abandoned for the simple reason that the coding for it would be a complete nightmare/impossible. May have been another reason, though. My memory fails me.

 

[Chalid]

Year coding this would be a pain as each summoned unit would have to remember its summoner. That adds a lot of complexity for a small gain.

 

[eerr]

why isn't there a promotion vs the recon line?
they're obviously the hardest to kill with low level units, without some high level heros/units removing a beastmaster from a forested hilltop can be very painful.

and-will there be a single promotion for the unit that defeats acheron/captures the dragons horde?
if not, then
perhaps a random promotion could be given-
wings of the dragon+1 movement, can move in impassable
eyes of the dragon+2 sight
blessed weapons+40% combat, +20% city attack
dragons breath+ability to summon a fireball, -100% charm

 

[Xyshi]

That is the purpose of recon units, they require no resources and no units get bonuses in attacking them. They are the only good units that some civs can get a hold of in games with bad starting positions.

 

[Kael]

why isn't there a promotion vs the recon line?

Thats one of the advantages of the recon line, no promotions against you.

they're obviously the hardest to kill with low level units, without some high level heros/units removing a beastmaster from a forested hilltop can be very painful.

Yeap.

and-will there be a single promotion for the unit that defeats acheron/captures the dragons horde?
if not, then
perhaps a random promotion could be given-
wings of the dragon+1 movement, can move in impassable
eyes of the dragon+2 sight
blessed weapons+40% combat, +20% city attack
dragons breath+ability to summon a fireball, -100% charm

No plans for a promotion. The considerable xp and gaining the dragons hoard (or the gold and gems if the player razes the city) is the only scheduled reward.

 

[eerr]

everything is more fun if you get a unique promotion for it as well...
and if you have to kill the dragon by weakening it, the xp isn't all that much,

i suppose a promotion would be too much for a dragon killed mostly by my combat3 treetop defence and dance of blades skeletons....

 

[loki1232]

I have an idea for a whole new type of magic resistant promotions.
1. The current magic resistant promotion will be changed to give --+40% against adepts, and doubled chance to resist resistable spells.
This is available to every civ, however magic resistant civs start with it.

This part is only available to magic resistant civs:
2. Then we have a a magic resistance promotion for every sphere.--What?????
Jah. Each one gives total immunity (not even a valid target for targetable ones) to the sorcery spells of that sphere, and +100% strength against summons of that sphere (summons includes fireballs, meteors, tiger, and skeletons but not krakens).
however, not all of them are available. Only if you have mana of that sphere, or mana of the opposite sphere. So fireor water is neededto get fire resistance.