Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

[OrderofOlav]

I believe JFD is doing Leo.........someday.....

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Well, ten turns is a bit waiting time, but I could up it... I basically want to encourage you to keep conquered cities Puppets for a while before annexing them.

I assume thats because Italian Somaliland was originally a weird patchwork of protectorates which eventually got integrated into IEA? If so, its an odd focus since thats how the majority of colonial powers went about expanding their influence. I know its how the British worked in the East Indies and I don't know much about French history but I assume they followed a fairly similar model in a lot of places. Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense when referring to the most important Italian colony, Libya, which was straight up seized from a major power and though it technically got integrated in like 1934 that didn't really change too much on the ground - they basically did exactly what France did with Algeria. Besides, in Somalia, where the UA makes most sense, its a stretch to say anything further than the coasts was governed that centrally anyway - Italy famously sucked at projecting its power beyond the coastlines.

I wanted two UUs for this design: one naval unit and one infantry unit to reference WW1. I picked the Alpini because of its importance, especially during WW1 AND the wars in East Africa, and I picked the Caio Duilio Class because it was powerful. When you say it is primarily a colonial design, I do not agree. The UA is not only supposed to reference the colonies, (though that is part of it) but also Italian warmongering and expansionism in general (Albania being a key example).

I get that, I just think its fairly good etiquette to avoid taking uniques from other peoples mods. Besides, I'm not sure the Italian campaign is wholly worth a unique - it was an important moment, sure, but it twists the Italian focus into an all out warmonger equally at home on sea and land which is simply not true for the infamously incompetent Italian army. Having a naval UU is, I agree, very important, but an infantry UU just seems less important to me. I'd go with a UB focused on coasts, maybe a harbour replacement? That said, if you're fixed on an infantry unit, Dubats or Reculs might fit better for a colonial Italy.

In terms of representing 'Italian warmongering in general', Albania was never really integrated that well, it stayed essentially a puppet the whole time, it was a protectorate first off and then a PU, never directly ruled. The fact that this was the most successful Italian expansion into Europe says a lot about why a land warmongering focus doesn't represent Italian expansionism on land.

The Italia Class actually sounds much better than the Caio Duilio Class - thanks! Also, since you don't like my design, can you suggest an improvement/new design? You should probably post it on my thread instead of here.

I'd keep the puppet focus but use it to be twisted into a game which emphasises a big, silly navy and full control of the waterways around you. This was Italy's constant dream: control of the Mediterranean. (and they could've got away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling British!) So I think a focus on warmongering for the sake of warmongering just doesn't represent what Italy was trying to achieve, however, warmongering for the sake of being king of the waves? now thats a lot more Italian.

Kingdom of Italy​

Leader: Vittorio Emmanuale III
UA: La Quarta Sponda
Puppet cities increase the production of naval units in all cities by +1 and by a further +2 during Golden Ages. Cities constructing naval units generate twice as many Golden Age points from local happiness and receive +1 food from sea resources.

UU: Italia (Replaces Ironclad)
The Italia class, as well as being slightly stronger than the the Ironclad it replaces, receives the unique 'Mare Nostrum' promotion, which grants it a +25% bonus against cities when within five tiles of an Italian city. In addition, the Italia generates Golden Age points from combat if your navy is the largest in the world.

UB: Porto (Replaces Harbour)
The Porto, unlike the Harbour it replaces, is instantly constructed when you puppet a city and yields +1 happiness. Furthermore, the Porto grants +10 experience to naval units constructed here, increasing to +20 during Golden Ages.

Obviously needs a lot of tweaking, but the base ideas are there.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Zantonius, I understand how you want to represent colonialism more for France since it is the era we are depicting, but I also think it's important to have some variety in our European civs. Italy is already going to be militaristic, Teddy is going to be City State intimidation, and I'm sure there's a couple others where colonialism and war is appropriate. Also, if we're doing Cecil Rhodes I'm going to assume he's an economic civ and I personally think that the Viceroyalty of Peru should be production and gold focused. That could result in three designs which can go for a diplomatic victory and still none that go for cultural. That's why I wanted France to be less about colonization and more about culture. There's still the Foreign Legion to represent imperialism, I just don't think that every single one of the Europeans need to have a dominate imperialistic focus.

 

[GPuzzle]

I'm actually pretty interested in how a Colonialist Germany would pan out. It seems very interesting. Germany is a country that I am quite interested in (just right behind England) and, well, there really isn't much about it.

 

[Natan35]

Colonial Germany? Isn't that Bismarck?

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

No, Bismark was famously against the idea of colonial expansion, if I remember right.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Yeah Bismarck disagreed with colonies and building a navy. He did so either way because the Kaiser wanted to. He also used African colonization to distract other European powers from what Germany was doing.

 

[GPuzzle]

Sorry for hijacking this discussion completely, but Firebug made some very good art for the Riograndense Republic Civ I'm making, and I wanted some feedback on the redesign I did.

UA: Liberty, Equality, Humanity: Units gain Experience twice as fast and gain Golden Age points from kills for the duration of the war after a Great Person is born. +5 Experience from Pastures and Great Works.

UB: Estancia: Barracks replacement. +1 Food and +1 Culture from Horses, Sheep and Cattle. Has two Great Work of Music slots that provide +10 XP when filled.

UU: Farrapo: Cavalry replacement. May build Pastures. If garrisoned in a city, the city gains +2 Great Musician points and +10% Great Person generation.

 

[OrderofOlav]

Victor Emmanuel III was the Italian monarch during WW1 and this civ is supposed to represent the war besides colonialism. I would argue that their navy was a much bigger failure during that war and thus that complete naval focus does not really fit.
There are just some civs that did not do well historically but we still feel we want to represent, so we rather look at their potential and their aspirations (something you also seem to aspire to) which is why I feel for both representation and this theory that an infantry unit is in order.
As for another civ we are planning, the idea of the UA was that a civ could represent particular European behavior from these periods because there are just so many things they did the same but are not represented in the game. Though I agree with the notion that Italy was not a particular champion of incorporating colonial acquisitions.

Oh and it is not taking something when you ask them beforehand but we still need alternatives for compatibility.

Also, Caesar it is kind of obvious that the colonial civs will have a gold focus so don't fret about similarities there (although we try to make them as versatile as possible). I feel Hypereon will do an amazing France under Napoleon III, that gives us a bit more space to explore France's colonial aspects, although I agree cultural focus should definitely be a big focus here.

Bismarck did appose it, but he had to drop his preference because of public opinion, either way we already planned to do a different leader.

Anyway don't want this tread to be fully about our designs.


So you get that bonus anytime during the war as long as somebody is born?


Edit: grammar

 

[GPuzzle]

If a Great Person is born and you are at war, you gain that bonus until you no longer are at war.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

You need a cap for XP from Great Works. Imagine if you have a city with an amphitheater, opera house, broadcast tower, the UB, and museum, all of which can be built in every city. If all those slots are filled that's 45 XP counting the UB's additional. Then, since the UB is a barrack it gives another 15 and if you have an armory and military academy that's a unit starting with 90 XP. That's absolutely ridiculous and if you have wonders or pastures in any of those cities you can have units that start with over 100 XP.

 

[Natan35]

No, Bismark was famously against the idea of colonial expansion, if I remember right.

Ironic that some island chain was named after him...
I really liked that UB, as well.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

A: Liberty, Equality, Humanity: Units gain Experience twice as fast and gain Golden Age points from kills for the duration of the war after a Great Person is born. +5 Experience from Pastures and Great Works.

UB: Estancia: Barracks replacement. +1 Food and +1 Culture from Horses, Sheep and Cattle. Has two Great Work of Music slots that provide +10 XP when filled.

UU: Farrapo: Cavalry replacement. May build Pastures. If garrisoned in a city, the city gains +2 Great Musician points and +10% Great Person generation.

My main question here is, what's the big deal with the Great Musician focus? I've never heard of Riograndense music being particularly popular nor playing a particularly large role in the Tatterdemalion war.

Also, Estancia not being a Stable replacement feels odd.

 

[GPuzzle]

Rio Grande do Sul has some very Gaucho roots - which means it's quite like Argentina and Uruguay in that regard. Music is an important part of Riograndense Culture. What is interesting is that Rio Grande do Sul is the only Brazilian state which plays its own anthem before pretty much anything. And many of the anthems for it were made during the War with the purpose of boosting morale. In fact, the first order from the Rebellion after taking Porto Alegre? Summoning the City's Orchestra to make the anthem for the war.

Also, it might be a better idea to change the Estancia to a Stable replacement. I just wanted people to get that it's more a militaristic-cukture duo.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I came up with another France design. This is for the revolutionary period:

First French Republic

UA: Reign of Terror: After selecting an ideology, gain tourism with civilizations you are at war with from killing their units. Units gain a 5% combat bonus for every ideological tenet selected (max 30%). May select an ideology upon discovering Gunpowder.

UU: National Guard: Replaces Musketman. Earns promotions twice as fast and gains culture from kills. Upgrades to Great War Infantry.

UB: Guillotine: Replaces Courthouse. Costs 1 gold maintenance instead of 4 and may be built in all cities. Allows you to kill a citizen for a sum of culture. +2 tourism after selecting an ideology.

The UA represents the spread of revolutionary fervor throughout Europe during the French Revolution and how French soldiers had more morale than their opponents as a result of this fervor. The National Guard continued to be used until the fall of the Second French Empire which is why they upgrade later. I don't think the guillotine needs much explanation.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

The French Republic

Maximilien de Robespierre

Reign of Terror
Found Occupied Cities. Receive Culture for every Unhappiness* in the empire. May adopt an Ideology upon discovering Metallurgy. After doing so receive Melee Infantry units with special Promotions** upon entering a war or adopting a Social Policy.

Fusilier
Replaces Musketman. Much cheaper, but also weaker. Receives a combat bonus if a Social Policy was adopted this turn or the previous. Provides Happiness when garrisoned, but may turn into a Rebel between turns.

Execution Scaffolding
Replaces Courthouse. Doesn’t remove Unhappiness from Occupation or cost any Gold in maintenance, but provides additional Unhappiness and allows this city to expend citizens for Culture.

Spoiler :

*This means literally every Unhappiness, the UA doesn't only apply when unhappy overall. It's this powerful to make up for the penalty of founding Occupied cities.

**Promotions:
Rookie
10% combat penalty. (Lost upon leveling up, not granted to Fusiliers)

Revolutionary Fervor
10% combat bonus when attacking.

Culotte
Generates +4 Culture when garrisoned. (Granted to 50% of the units)

Sans-Culotte
Generates +2 Tourism when garrisoned (Granted to the other 50%)

(Still my favourite design ever)

(I will eventually respond to all of you, but this is too much - I need to calm down first, watch the newest MLP episode or something I'unno)

 

[Natan35]

This is awesome!
Though it could be OP at times. The ideology thing is really interesting in my opinion.

 

[OrderofOlav]

I would be scared to use the execution scaffolding o: unless I somehow urgently need culture and have allot of citizens.....can't there be some compromise with unhappiness? Like no production penalty (Idunno how you historically explain that, maybe enthusiasm lol)? I toyed with the idea of having a civ based around unhappiness but I think you really need to negate some of the vast amount of negative effects you get...

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

The UA is very, very powerful, actually. +1 Culture for each Unhappiness = endless Social Policies and basically ending anyone else's ambitions of Culture victory.

Oh, and you'd gain a very large amount of Culture from expending citizens.

 

[Natan35]

How large? Does it scale?